Another CI-4+ oil changing to CJ-4

[AKaiser]

Just one comment about CJ -4vs. CI. Valvoline has a briefing about CJ-4specifications at http://www.valvoline-technology.com/upload/dynamic/API%20CJ-4%20Heavy%20Duty%20Engine%20Oil.pdf It shows a definitive increase in protection compared to CI-4 and 4 plus. "The performance of CJ-4 is designed to be a significant upgrade over CI-4 and CI-4 plus lubricants. "



To Borrow from this Valvoline document:



Improved Soot Handling

BECAUSE:The use of increase EGR creates more soot. To

minimize the negative effects, the soot dispersancy

capability of CJ-4 oils has been boosted.



Improved Oxidation Control

BECAUSE Higher EGR rates result in increased operating

temperatures that accelerate oil oxidation. CJ-4 oils

have been formulated with improved high temperature

anti-oxidants that reduce oxidation



Superior Valve-train Wear Protection

- CJ-4 oil category includes Cummins B-engine test

that measures the oil's capability to reduce tappet

wear. CJ-4 oils have boosted wear protection for the

mid-range engines.



Backward Compatibility

- CJ-4 oil category is designed to be backward

compatible. It is designed to meet the performance

properties of previous categories and is compatible

with older engines.



If you actually open the pdf linked here, and go to page 10 (the page with the graph labeled "Benefits of using CJ-4") you will see that the only factor that CJ-4 is merely equal to CI-4+ and not significantly superior to it, is shear stability.



Based on what Valvoline is saying about CJ-4 requirements, one of two things is true.



Either



1: The additive packages used to meet CJ-4's emission system protection requirements (which cause lower TBN numbers) are much superior at lower TBN values,



OR



2: Valvoline and everyone else in the lube and engine manufacturing industry is not telling the truth about CJ-4.



Some of you want to believe number two, but I don't see how Valvoline can make these claims unless they are substantially factual. They can't afford that kind of liability.



I don't place my faith in mere fresh OA test numbers, which is what this argument has been mostly based on. I want to see WEAR DATA from actual engine operation and UOA from that to build a record. At least two of you (JHardwick and steved) have begun that, and CJ-4 is looking good.

 

[steved]

At least two of you (JHardwick and steved) have begun that, and CJ-4 is looking good.

I believe there are at least four or five of us with UOAs of CJ-4 (primarily Rotella CJ-4 15w40), and I don't remember one of us having any outstandingly bad results. IIRC, the average mileage is around 10k UOAs.



steved

 

[JHardwick]

I believe there are at least four or five of us with UOAs of CJ-4 (primarily Rotella CJ-4 15w40), and I don't remember one of us having any outstandingly bad results. IIRC, the average mileage is around 10k UOAs.



steved

Yup, there have been a few that have posted good numbers.



I do tend to disregard the guys commuting unloaded, and dumping at 5,000 miles though.



That was a very encouraging and reassuring post as well AKaiser.

 

[Blakers]

John Martin (25 years with Lubrizol) was the guy that did the commentary on the oil analysys. Every oil he rated Ho-Hum (his lowest rating) was a CJ oil. He didn't know what the oils were when he rated them, he only had a number. That article changed the way I think about oil, but it also made me want to stick with a CI oil which it appears is going out of production!

Is John still with Lubrizol? Does he work in Painesville or Wickliff? A guy I used to work with currently works in the lab at Lubrizol in Painesville.

 

[AKaiser]

Yup, there have been a few that have posted good numbers.



I do tend to disregard the guys commuting unloaded, and dumping at 5,000 miles though.



That was a very encouraging and reassuring post as well AKaiser.

This is like the third or fourth time I've posted this stuff, and I think this is the first time anyone has commented, good, bad or indifferent.



I don't have anything to haul, yet. I commute 30 miles one way to work, usually average above 70 MPH on the way out, and take back roads home. Gets me about 21 MPG average, plus it keeps the engine running well. Also average at least one long trip per month-three hours one way. Never change my oil before 15K. Why waste oil? It's a 11 quart sump, I'm running Amsoil Synthetic 5W30 HDD (CI-4+), which they recommend to go 25K on A service and 15K on B (severe). I'm going to run UOA at 15K and see what Blackstone tells me. I haven't plumbed the bypass yet. Plan to do that in the fall, after it cools off. Bought used in OCT with 29K on it, and it's just up to 65K this week. All I've had to do was replace the rear u-joints under warranty.

 

[JHardwick]

This is like the third or fourth time I've posted this stuff, and I think this is the first time anyone has commented, good, bad or indifferent.

My bad, I never saw the link before. However, at times like this when I'm home, I'm on here a couple times a day ... ... ... ... . and then when I'm on the road, it may be a couple of days before I get on here.

 

[kowaliga]

Just one comment about CJ -4vs. CI. Valvoline has a briefing about CJ-4specifications at http://www.valvoline-technology.com/upload/dynamic/API%20CJ-4%20Heavy%20Duty%20Engine%20Oil.pdf It shows a definitive increase in protection compared to CI-4 and 4 plus. "The performance of CJ-4 is designed to be a significant upgrade over CI-4 and CI-4 plus lubricants. "



To Borrow from this Valvoline document:



Improved Soot Handling

BECAUSE:The use of increase EGR creates more soot. To

minimize the negative effects, the soot dispersancy

capability of CJ-4 oils has been boosted.



Improved Oxidation Control

BECAUSE Higher EGR rates result in increased operating

temperatures that accelerate oil oxidation. CJ-4 oils

have been formulated with improved high temperature

anti-oxidants that reduce oxidation



Superior Valve-train Wear Protection

– CJ-4 oil category includes Cummins B-engine test

that measures the oil’s capability to reduce tappet

wear. CJ-4 oils have boosted wear protection for the

mid-range engines.



Backward Compatibility

– CJ-4 oil category is designed to be backward

compatible. It is designed to meet the performance

properties of previous categories and is compatible

with older engines.



If you actually open the pdf linked here, and go to page 10 (the page with the graph labeled "Benefits of using CJ-4") you will see that the only factor that CJ-4 is merely equal to CI-4+ and not significantly superior to it, is shear stability.



Based on what Valvoline is saying about CJ-4 requirements, one of two things is true.



Either



1: The additive packages used to meet CJ-4's emission system protection requirements (which cause lower TBN numbers) are much superior at lower TBN values,



OR



2: Valvoline and everyone else in the lube and engine manufacturing industry is not telling the truth about CJ-4.



Some of you want to believe number two, but I don't see how Valvoline can make these claims unless they are substantially factual. They can't afford that kind of liability.



I don't place my faith in mere fresh OA test numbers, which is what this argument has been mostly based on. I want to see WEAR DATA from actual engine operation and UOA from that to build a record. At least two of you (JHardwick and steved) have begun that, and CJ-4 is looking good.

Cummins Mid-South reiterated to me that Valvoline Diesel oil continues to have its ( Cummins ) CES rating. . good enough.

 

[AKaiser]

Cummins Mid-South reiterated to me that Valvoline Diesel oil continues to have its ( Cummins ) CES rating. . good enough.

It should, as they developed the CJ-4 oil together.

 

[steved]

However, at times like this when I'm home, I'm on here a couple times a day ... ... ... ... . and then when I'm on the road, it may be a couple of days before I get on here.

Same here... you never realize you missed anything...



steved

 

[steved]

Just remember ... ... ... . I'm taking one for the team here :-laf



I never really intended on even taking the CI oil over 20,000 miles, but with all of the speculation going on here, I figured I'd try it

I did a little calculating (based on the drop of my CJ-4 TBN versus a VOA of CJ-4) and figured if the TBN drop in my oil was a linear trend, I'd be able to run somewhere around 40k before TBN would indicate a needed oil change. It probably is drops faster the less TBN is available, but even if 30k is the OCI...



steved

 

[JVantreese]

Better return then my credit union.

Our local Walmart had Rotella 5W40 for $16. 24 a gallon. I put 21 gal in my cart and smiled. I figure I am set for the next 100,000 miles and with oil prices going each week I figure my investment in motor oil will out perform the credit union's rate of return.

 

[roperteacher]

I stockpiled the MOPAR HD 15/40 CI4+ from a sale my dealer had... I am good for atleast 30,000 miles!

 

[JHardwick]

Same here... you never realize you missed anything...



steved

I carry a notebook with wireless internet, but I usually only have time to scroll through and catch the highlites.

 

[JHardwick]

I did a little calculating (based on the drop of my CJ-4 TBN versus a VOA of CJ-4) and figured if the TBN drop in my oil was a linear trend, I'd be able to run somewhere around 40k before TBN would indicate a needed oil change. It probably is drops faster the less TBN is available, but even if 30k is the OCI...



steved

I doubt that it's linear, but I am starting to thnk that I was dumping CI oil wat too soon ... ..... based on the fact that CJ oil is supposed to have a shorter change interval.

 

[Spooled-up]

I just bought some Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 today and noticed that it's CI-4 but complies with the CJ-4 specs. Maybe they'll keep making it this way.

 

[AKaiser]

My bad, I never saw the link before. However, at times like this when I'm home, I'm on here a couple times a day ... ... ... ... . and then when I'm on the road, it may be a couple of days before I get on here.

Not your fault you have a life.

 

[klenger]

I just bought some Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 today and noticed that it's CI-4 but complies with the CJ-4 specs. Maybe they'll keep making it this way.

If the oil complies with CJ-4 specs, then it is CJ-4 oil.

 

[jjdiesel]

If the oil complies with CJ-4 specs, then it is CJ-4 oil.

Ditto. That's some of that sneaky stuff they were talking about on the home page of the website.

 

[VRidgley]

FWIW, I consolidated the recent lube oil data published in 2 tables in the last TDR into 1 single handy (printable) sheet for reference. You can carry it with you when cruising from retailer to retailer looking for something acceptable in the CI+4 line!

 

[RankRam]

Thanks Vic!