How to tell CI-4+ oil

[DieselFiend]

Hopefully someone can help me out with this. I'm trying to find a CI-4+ to run next time I change my oil. Wally world has Rotella 15W-40 with CI-4+ on it and nothing else. They also have another with CI-4+ and CJ-4 on it. I'm assuming that the true CI-4+ oil will not have any other service compatibility stamped on it. Is this true? How can you decifer the labels on this stuff?

 

[JHardwick]

Just look for Rotella T 15W-40 and call it a day. If you can get a jug or 2 with only the CI-4+ without looking, go for it ... ... ..... if not, CJ is good oil as well.

By your signature, it looks like you run Amsoil anyway?

 

[Newt]

As a rule, your oil service codes are backwards compatible.

 

[DieselFiend]

I guess I need to change my signature. I'm not running AMSOIL any more after reading the article about oils in TDR magazine. I'm paying way too much for oil that will do the same job as dino.



I'm going with CI-4+ rotella next change and see how my samples burn.

My question is, how do you tell whats just CI-4+ and what's CJ-4 by the labeling on the oil? Most will be stamped with CI-4 but also CJ-4.

 

[JHardwick]

Your probably not going to find CI oil, just go with the CJ oil and compare sample results.

I've ran CJ oil over 25,000 miles on a change with good results.

 

[Shadrach]

CJ4 supercedes CI4. In general the higher the second letter the higher the spec. CJ4 is the latest version. Pretty soon you wont find any more CI4 as it will all be CJ4 ( except for some cheap stuff that you dont want anyway. Shadrach

 

[roperteacher]

Agreed, you can still get CI4+ Mopar from Dodge but thats a bout all your going to find. Valvoline is distributing some CI4+ Classic blue but I haven't seen any on the west coast. Just like some others have reported, the CJ stuff is holding up just fine!

 

[amsoilman]

I guess I need to change my signature. I'm not running AMSOIL any more after reading the article about oils in TDR magazine. I'm paying way too much for oil that will do the same job as dino.



I'm going with CI-4+ rotella next change and see how my samples burn.

My question is, how do you tell whats just CI-4+ and what's CJ-4 by the labeling on the oil? Most will be stamped with CI-4 but also CJ-4.

Amsoil is still producing the (AME) 15W-40 as a CI-4+ oil. As to the "Blind" testing of the oils in the TDR Magazine, the oils were not tested on a performance basis, they were simply looked at through oil analysis which shows some additives and TBN numbers which were evaluated by Mr. Martin. He even stated upfront, QUOTE "I can only analyze how I think each oil will perform" He goes on to say, "I am going to give it my best shot because i do not have the budget to really put these oils through the paces.



There are modern tests, as well as "field" tests that are designed to evaluate oil performance, and these tests were not performed! Simply put, the TDR did not have the recourses to do this kind of performance testing. The article is very misleading in my opinion, as the Amsoil that was listed was a 5W-40 and shown as a CI4-+ with a much lower TBN rating.



wayne

 

[steved]

Hopefully someone can help me out with this. I'm trying to find a CI-4+ to run next time I change my oil. Wally world has Rotella 15W-40 with CI-4+ on it and nothing else. They also have another with CI-4+ and CJ-4 on it. I'm assuming that the true CI-4+ oil will not have any other service compatibility stamped on it. Is this true? How can you decifer the labels on this stuff?

If it only has CI-4+ stamped on it, then it is a CI-4+ oil... if it has both CI-4+ and CJ-4, then it is the newer CJ-4 formula... the Rotella "Triple Protection" is the CJ-4 oil.



CI-4+ oil can and will have the older oils listed (CF, CG, CH usually), but it shouldn't have CJ-4 on it.



And again, as previously noted, there is nothing wrong with the CJ-4 oils in a normal oil change interval. The only thing the newer CJ-4 oils might not perform as well as CI-4+ oils is extended oil change intervals... but as was already shown, extended changes (where it might become a problem) are well beyond what most of us do anyway.



steved

 

[AABEN]

You can get NAPA to get the premiun blue classic it is api ci4 plus api ci-4, api ch-4, api cg-4, cf-4, cf/sl Good for 06 down Thay say the 07 up should use CJ oil . The cj does not have as good wear protection as the CI-4 plus does. The part # is591839 this is for 5GAL only comes in 5GAL or larger. That is Valvoline's part number.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I saw this interesting read on NW Bombers

New oils and related failures. - BOMBER Board

 

[JHardwick]

The cj does not have as good wear protection as the CI-4 plus does.

What are you basing this statement on?

 

[steved]

I saw this interesting read on NW Bombers

New oils and related failures. - BOMBER Board

I posted a reply on that topic after reading this... I am really interested in following that topic... Dave knows his stuff, I'll be curious to see what the outcome is.



I just don't understand how a bunch of us can have UOAs that look really good, then see this thread about CJ-4 related failure. I'm hoping he finds the analysis shows a bad batch of oil...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

I posted a reply on that topic after reading this... I am really interested in following that topic... Dave knows his stuff, I'll be curious to see what the outcome is.



I just don't understand how a bunch of us can have UOAs that look really good, then see this thread about CJ-4 related failure. I'm hoping he finds the analysis shows a bad batch of oil...



steved

In the 30 +years I've been involved with engine oils, I have only seen one case of Engine oil causing Engine damage! It was in the mid 70's and the oil had been contaminated with additives that were not compatible with the additives that were in the oil. This was a complete "BATCH" of oil produced by a MAJOR oil Company. The company had to buy a lot of engines due to this!



Wayne

 

[jimnance]

I saw this interesting read on NW Bombers

New oils and related failures. - BOMBER Board

Shortly after the new '07 models came out a buddy that is the service manager for a Navistar dealer warned me that they expected some problems with the new CJ oil. Shorter intervals for sure. At that point they'd only serviced a few of the new engines, but reported that the oil was very black. I suppose this means the oil is doing it's job of suspending the soot and combustion by-products. However, it was too soon to know if they'd have a durability problem. He did say to change the oil on the new truck at least as often as the required interval, and a shorter interval was better.



I don't have any choice of oil for my '07, but I bought 55 gallons of CI-4+ from the local oil jobber a couple of months ago for my older rigs.

 

[steved]

On a side note, my neighbor works for International as a on-road diesel mechanic... he got the same "memo" warning that the newer oils were most likely going to cause more engine failures.



I periodically ask him about it, but he says they haven't really had a true oil-related engine failure... most time it is a catastrophic part failure or a failure directly resulting from the neglect of a driver (run an engine out of oil because the turbo blew)... I'm sure I would hear about it if there was a rash of failures in his "region".



After reading this thread, I'll ask him today if I see him...



steved

 

[MAllen1]

Under the 3-6000 mile oil change, there should be no more problem using a CJ verses a CI. The 2 reasons I use the AMSOIL 15-40 full synthetic is 1) its ci4+ and 2)I drive 500 miles a month and change the oil once a year. I "feel" better with the sythetic in the truck on a yearly service schedule like the one i am on.

 

[rbattelle]

I just don't understand how a bunch of us can have UOAs that look really good, then see this thread about CJ-4 related failure.

Here's what I keep asking myself: if CJ-4 is just as good as CI-4, then why would oil companies continue to produce and sell CI-4 rated oil? If CJ-4 is just as good, what's the business case for maintaining all the overhead required to make CI-4? I don't think that "crazy nut-jobs who think CJ-4 isn't as good" is enough of a market to justify.

In all the history of API ratings, have oil companies ever offered 2 different ratings at the same time?

Ryan

 

[jimnance]

There is strong demand for CI-4+ oil in part because it is cheaper to produce, manufacture, and sell. Because they had to go beyond the box quite a bit to find additives that work nearly as well as they've used in earlier formulations the cost of the additive package has gotten quite high. Also, I'm told that the amount of additive relative to the base stock is higher too.



So, simple supply/demand coupled by the ability to produce a cheaper better product is the dynamics.



Remember leaded fuel? Before cars had to have unleaded fuel folks bought leaded fuel for their older cars because it was cheaper and better for their cars. Once they had to use it in catalytic converter equipped cars they adopted it only because they had to. Meantime, the engine manufacturers made some modest changes in metalurgy to deal with some issues of valve errosion and in the end we ended up with a better product.