Attention pilots or those employed as such... a few questions...

[scootergmc]

Attention pilots and those employed as such... a few questions...

Here's my situation... I'm looking to change careers. Not that I don't like my current job but in my neverending quest to find something I'd like to do, I've finally decided this is the route I'd like to go and it's time I get serious. Whether or not jobs are available, it's something I've always wanted to do and I know I could do it.



My question is this: Assuming you had to do it all over again, how would you go about it? Schooling, cost, time, etc. , I'm looking to get some hindsight opinions. Helo pilots welcome as I don't discriminate...

 

[klenger]

Good luck in your plans. I've been in aviation for over 35 years as an Avionics Tech and Engineer.

 

[scootergmc]

Thanks. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[GAmes]

I flew helicopters for 19 years in the Army, after being a mechanic for 7. Learning to fly, and getting the needed experience to fly in the civilian world for pay is expensive. Making a career flying in the military is a choice I'll never regret. My stick buddy from flight school is a captain with United Airlines, but he was fixed wing rated prior to joining the Army. If you are young enough, medically qualified and smart enough, I'd point you at a recruiter. If you have a college education, and the other prerequisites, I'd point you to the Air Force.

 

[scootergmc]

I flew helicopters for 19 years in the Army, after being a mechanic for 7. Learning to fly, and getting the needed experience to fly in the civilian world for pay is expensive. Making a career flying in the military is a choice I'll never regret. My stick buddy from flight school is a captain with United Airlines, but he was fixed wing rated prior to joining the Army. If you are young enough, medically qualified and smart enough, I'd point you at a recruiter. If you have a college education, and the other prerequisites, I'd point you to the Air Force.

I have the education but don't quite meet the age cutoff :-laf Expensive is already something I've prepared for, so that's a somewhat secondary issue at this point. In some respects I wish I would've gone military. I had a chance after college and let (of all people) my military buddy talk me out of it. I chalk it up to being young and having no direction in life...

 

[PVanderlugt]

Aviation is HOT right now, jobs galore.
If you can do it, go to an accredited, accelerated flight school that can get you done in 6 months or so. be prepared for 40-50k for cost. What would you like to do after you get your ratings??
Airlines?? have to start at the regionals to get flight time, first year salary will be 20k, gets better after 2 years (40K)
Corporate?? pretty hard to get into, still need flight time
Charter?? reasonable $$ but pretty rough schedule for homelife.
Freight?? plan on working nights.
since you said you were to old for the military, Would like to warn you you are going to compete with 23 year olds for jobs, in a way this is good, in other ways this is bad. Having an understanding wife really helps.
Pete

 

[scootergmc]

Thanks Pete... Is the pay really that bad? 20K? You could make that working at Wal*Mart. Airlines would be a possibility but I think I would fly smaller planes or rotary. I guess Airlines have smaller aircraft too.



I'm working on the understanding wife. She's not too understanding... . but it's ok right now.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Yes, the pay is that bad at first. I don't know what it's like today but I was looking at taking the plunge in the mid 90's. I already had my PPSEL Instrument. When I looked into it at that time I would have had to live on $15-17k for 3-5 years to build time to get to the regionals where I could make $25-30k for 5-7 years before I could get to the majors. I couldn't live on that so I gave up the idea. It's an industry that's heavily weighted to making the money at the back side of the career.

 

[PVanderlugt]

Yep, commuter pay is around 20k or so, good news is they will hire you right out of flight school right now, 300 hrs total, 25 multi and your in. they fly up to 90 seat aircraft(small?) The charter market is pretty good right now, but the schedule would be challenging to a home life. (think glorified limo driver) have you thought about getting your private pilots licence ?Would get you an idea what it is like to fly, get to hang out at airports and talk to pilots, see what the different careers are like, if you stilll want to make it a career after that, by all means go for it the job market now is as good as it has been in a long time.

 

[scootergmc]

Thanks for the info. I have thought about the PPL, maybe I should go that route. What about helicopters? Any info there? Thanks!

 

[Skydiver]

I can't remember all the details.

7 years ago when I was Skydiving the pilots were flying on weekends just to get their hours for commercial rateing. Hardly any pay but I remember this one pilot that went to work for some rich man flying his fleet of planes.

Check out your local drop zones. They don't fly in bad weather and the pilot wears an emergency chute.

 

[scootergmc]

Thanks. I have a drop zone about 5 minutes away. The run a King Air and a Twin Otter nonstop on the weekends. I should talk to them.



I do take the kids over there occasionally to watch them jump.

 

[PC12Driver]

ATP Flight School's website has some really good info about airline careers. Be sure to check out the PilotJobs and BeAnAirlinePilot links. As was mentioned above, the commuters are sucking up pilots right out of school. In fact, there are several commuters offering sign on bonuses, which was UNHEARD of until recently. If I were to start over, I'd jump right in to the airlines for a couple of years, build up some good quality time quickly (twin turbine), and then have enough experience logged to choose a job that I'd want (commuter, airline, corporate, charter, etc. ).



I've been doing the corporate thing for almost eight years now. I'm pretty happy with the pay, equipment, and home time. Another plus is that I know almost all my passengers, since I see them almost every day. On the downside, I only fly about 200 hours per year, and as with most "low-use" corporate flight departments, I have a regular desk job at the company when I'm not flying. Thankfully, we're about to gain another company as a partner and it looks like I'll get to ditch the desk job.



There's a charter company at our airport that is trying to snag me to fly Citations, but the small pay increase and the lure of a jet isn't enough to override the 10-20 nights away from home per month!



If I was in a different place in life, I'd hit the airlines in a heartbeat. Flight schedules known way in advance, great pay, awesome home time, etc. But with a house payment and a new bride that wants to start a family, taking a $50k paycut isn't a good move right now.



Avoid cargo. Cargo, since it doesn't complain, is expected to be flown in some of the worst weather conditions. And some of the smaller companies have really poor equipment. You'd get really great experience though. Freight dogs are some hard-core dudes. But the risks are high.



There's even a bigger vacuum for pilots in the heli industry. Once you hit the golden 1000 hrs (probably by flight instructing) you'll be able to snag a job that pays pretty well. Just glancing through my latest salary survey, it looks like the typical "low" pay for heli pilots (not counting flight instructors) is about $45-50 with a peak of $80-100k. So it looks like you'll start off higher with helis but you'll cap a little sooner than flying jets. But the cost of training is something like 50% higher. I started working on my rotorcraft rating (the most fun I've had in an aircraft, btw), but I ended up buying a house, and that ended the training.



Whichever path you choose (fixed or heli), do your research and start off at a good school. There are plenty out there that specialize in aviation careers and have good ties in the industry, and you'll pretty much be guaranteed an interview with an employer after completion. And a lot have financing available to help defer some of the training costs. It's a big financial hit initially, but it pays off well relatively quickly.



And did I mention that it's fun? It certainly beats a real job!

 

[scootergmc]

Thanks PC12. I just set up my med cert appt this morning. So hopefully the Doctor will provide me with some good info too. He's a commercial instructor also.



That ATP program looks pretty high speed. I was reading online and found some positive and negative things regarding the program, mostly the cost (as far as the negative). There seems to be other programs out there that do the same but for $10-15k less, but then again, it's the internet, and everyone's got an opinion. $55k is pretty steep but hey, if it's the rest of my life, what's a little cash? Also, they have a closeby location in Sac. But I still have to get my PPL first. So I'll do a little investigating this weekend at the local airfield and see what I can come up with there...

 

[scootergmc]

Well, the doc said I have no medical issues and my eyesight and hearing is fabulous. Today I'm leaning toward rotorcraft... I dunno which way to go, but the doc said just go get your PPL first.

 

[PC12Driver]

... but the doc said just go get your PPL first.

I assume that means PPL in a fixed wing, right? When I was learning to fly helis I already had about 10 years of fixed wing time. And at the time, I remember saying that I couldn't imagine going right into helicopters and trying to learn all the peripheral aviation stuff while trying to fly a heli. There's just so much less going on in a fixed wing. I still don't know how the heck you're supposed to write down clearances or even fold a chart while flying a chopper! You simply can't let go of the cyclic.



But, that was probably just my view as an experienced fixed wing pilot. I already had the pilot stuff down, just not the heli mechanics. I suppose if you're starting from zero, it really wouldn't matter if you started out airplane or heli.



An advantage to getting your fixed wing tickets first is that there would be a cost savings. You could get your total time built up for the commercial ticket in the plane and then add-on the heli. You'll need 150 hours total time, and 50 of that in a heli. So you could get your PPL-fixed and fly up to 100hrs, then get the remaining 50 in the heli and you'd be set for the Comm-heli ride. This would save you a few thousand dollars.



But the disadvantage of that is you'll have lower heli time when looking for a heli job afterwards. If you have the backing ($) and heli is your goal, then by all means jump right into helicopters and start building the time. You can always add-on a fixed wing rating later for (relatively) peanuts if you want. In my case, I would have had a bunch of total time, but only 70 hrs or so in helicopters. And unless the company personally knows you, it would be pretty hard to start making money with only 70 hours.



What class medical did you get?

 

[scootergmc]

I got the third class medical. I put down 2nd class on the form, but he said just get the third class. I dunno why. So I did.



And yes to the PPL fixed, since I'm not sure what I really want to do, and he too said it would probably be cheaper in the long run if I go rotary. So now I'm just checking out schools. There aren't any rotary schools nearby, so I think I'll just go fixed right now.

 

[PC12Driver]

Odd that he didn't do the 2nd, since the only real difference is vision (especially since you asked for one ). That's no biggie for now, but if you're gonna do this as a career, you should probably start getting firsts from now on (the big dollar jobs will require it, and unless you're over 37 years old it shouldn't cost any more than a 3rd). My doc actually charges more for a 2nd than a first, since they're usually for guys that have some reason they can't get a first but still need a commercial-grade certificate. They'll end up taking up more of his time to get the thing passed through at OKC.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

If you want to do this as a career I'd advise you to go ahead and get a 1st class now so your sure you won't have problems down the road. I know a guy that got his 3rd class, got his PPL and instrument. Then got his 2nd class and got his commercial, CFI, and CFII. Built a bunch of time instructing and went to get his 1st class to get his ATP and they found a heart problem and he lost all his medicals. Lots of money and time wasted. His goal was to be an airline pilot and now he can't fly at all.

 

[MMcLeran]

Hang out at your local arpt. , ask questions, lots of questions, when you're done ask some more. Consider a PPL before investing $$ on Comm, Inst. and Multi engine ratings. Night IFR in bad WX is serious business especially with a load of people on board. Always be ahead of your aircraft, respect it always. Be the best you can be both in VFR and IFR flight. No late night partying, no DUI's, keep in shape mentally and physically. A pilots life can be extremely demanding on a marriage, make sure your partner is on board, never enter the flight deck with a load of negative issues. Most accidents are pilot error. You will get real cocky at 500 hours, we all do, but please remember that at 500 hundred hours you are still wet behind the ears and have just scratched the surface. Stick with the winners, seek out the ATP's who fly the big stuff, the old timers who worked their way up from gas boy to flight instructor to corporate and eventually to the majors. Listen to what they have to say, find a role model and stick close. Be teachable and learn to listen. If you truly love flying and you will find out soon enough, go for it. The sky's the limit. Good Luck.

Mike