Run Nitrous or not with stock head gasket?

[Blacksdieselhp]

I've got a 2003 truck with smarty, tst, mp-8, Silver Bullet 66 turbo, Snow Stage 2 kit, Georend Trans. I've got the Nitrous Express kit on the truck with two bottles, remote bottle openers, its the kit that come with just a purge valve that goes in the intake. The truck still has the stock headgasket and bolts. I am trying to decide whether I should use the nitrous or go with a big set of injectors? I will difenately be doing both eventually, but really don't wanna do the head just yet. Is the nirtous kit I have ok to run with these mods with the stock gasket or is it gonna lift the head. I guess I need to run the smarty and tst with no added timing. What do you guys think.

 

[lmills]

I know of quite a few people running it on a stock gasket including myself.

 

[JVolpe]

I would put studs on it before I got to crazy with the nitrous. My stock gasket and head bolts held 55+psi without any issues before I added studs. But that was on #2 only.

 

[RMalone]

WOW, Imills you make 1200+ hp and 2k tq on stock gasket and bolts? I guess the 3rd gen gaskets/bolts really are more durable than the 2nd gens. That truck of yours must be frightening!!

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

WOW, Imills you make 1200+ hp and 2k tq on stock gasket and bolts? I guess the 3rd gen gaskets/bolts really are more durable than the 2nd gens. That truck of yours must be frightening!!

Actually, his truck does have studs, but it is a stock head gasket. I would suggest studs, as well, before doing nitrous. Nitrous will cause higher than normal boost pressures.

 

[lmills]

WOW, Imills you make 1200+ hp and 2k tq on stock gasket and bolts? I guess the 3rd gen gaskets/bolts really are more durable than the 2nd gens. That truck of yours must be frightening!!

oh my, thats what happens when I post first thing in the morning. LOL. I totally missed the part about stock bolts. Studs are pretty much a must have item.

 

[WUnderwood]

how much fuel do you have? stock injectors?

I would upgrade my bolts at least before you go and spray

 

[RobertP]

cylinder psi is the biggest concern here, fuel, air, and over stock timing can quickly add this up.



ARP studs are a must

stock gasket is perfectly fine anyone who says different is not well educated in the CR world.



nitrous is very safe

the tuning you currently have may not be.



consider and adjust these things and you will be OK

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

I don't have any experience with nitrous. Is the kit I have ok or should I go with a kit that uses jets? The kit I have is the one from Nitrous Express that uses a pruge valve in the intake. it was on the truck when I got it.

 

[DPellegrin]

Gentlemen,



Can someone please explain to me why nitrous (N2O) is of some advantage when applied to a diesel engine. I can understand the nitrous advantage with a spark ignited gasoline engine, but not a diesel. Diesel engines, even at full load, run very lean compared to the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio for a diesel engine at 14. 5-1. There is more air in a diesel than you can use already!



Thanks

 

[lmills]

if that were true then we would see no gain from nitrous now would we? LOL You are considering stock fueled motors. The trucks that run nitrous are heavily fuel and the turbos can not even begin to clean up the smoke. So, the nitrous cleans up what the turbps can not.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

So I am now running the Smarty, mp-8 and snow stage 2 water. I will soon have a set of F1 injectors, probably go with a bigger set like the flux 3 or 4 since the truck will never be used for anything other than just driving around or raced. I guess this stack will be ok with n2o as long as I don't use the smarty timing? And I guess theres not much tuning to do on the kit I have because it only uses a purge valve to inject to n2o into the intake. Should I go to a system that uses nozzles? Also, what about the custom age 625+ studs, should I go with those or just go with the regular 12mm arps?

 

[DPellegrin]

Imills,

You may be LOL but you still have not answered the question! I have plenty of experience overfueling diesel engines, having performed durability testing for a major diesel engine manufacturer and emissions testing for the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Can you refer me to any analytical testing or test report of a diesel engine using nitrous injection where the diesel fuel rate is constant and nitrous injection is the dependent varible? I would be interested in seeing the results.



Nitrous changes the stoichiometry of a spark ignition engine. It allows you to run it much richer that you could without nitrous. Nitrous has no heating value. On the other hand it's very difficult to run a diesel too rich, especially a turbocharged one. This is why I am questioning the efficacy of nitrous on a diesel engine. For example, a hodrodders myth is that nitro methane makes makes its own oxygen and therfore this is the reason it makes so much power. The reason nitro methane, even though it has much lower energy content than gasoline, makes so much power is that its stoichiometric (chemically perfect) A/F ratio is 1. 5-1. This means you can dump fuel in the engine with a shower head and it will never go to rich using nitro methane.



I'm just looking for some test data that is relavent to diesel engines using nitrous.



Thanks

 

[paulb]

Try this for more info on nitromethane (ch3no2): Nitromethane. Particularly to the section about it able to be used as a monopropellant.



You can use the search feature here to see many examples of using Nitrous in a diesel to dramatically increase hp. Multiple people will dyno and report both their #2 only numbers and their Nitrous numbers.



Hope this helps...

Paul

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Imills,

You may be LOL but you still have not answered the question! I have plenty of experience overfueling diesel engines, having performed durability testing for a major diesel engine manufacturer and emissions testing for the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Can you refer me to any analytical testing or test report of a diesel engine using nitrous injection where the diesel fuel rate is constant and nitrous injection is the dependent varible? I would be interested in seeing the results.



Nitrous changes the stoichiometry of a spark ignition engine. It allows you to run it much richer that you could without nitrous. Nitrous has no heating value. On the other hand it's very difficult to run a diesel too rich, especially a turbocharged one. This is why I am questioning the efficacy of nitrous on a diesel engine. For example, a hodrodders myth is that nitro methane makes makes its own oxygen and therfore this is the reason it makes so much power. The reason nitro methane, even though it has much lower energy content than gasoline, makes so much power is that its stoichiometric (chemically perfect) A/F ratio is 1. 5-1. This means you can dump fuel in the engine with a shower head and it will never go to rich using nitro methane.



I'm just looking for some test data that is relavent to diesel engines using nitrous.



Thanks

DP - I don't know about any test data, but from what I've researched, nitrous does two primary things. To simplify it, nitrous is composed of 2 parts nitrogen to 1 part oxygen. When heated to combustion temps, it breaks down to inert nitrogen and free oxygen, (about 37%). This extra oxygen allows the unburnt fuel to burn, resulting in less smoke, and more power. The other thing it does, is cool the intake air charge, also resulting in more oxygen. This happens because of it being depressurized when it is injected into the air stream. I'm sure there is a lot more to it, but that's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.

 

[lmills]

DP - I don't know about any test data, but from what I've researched, nitrous does two primary things. To simplify it, nitrous is composed of 2 parts nitrogen to 1 part oxygen. When heated to combustion temps, it breaks down to inert nitrogen and free oxygen, (about 37%). This extra oxygen allows the unburnt fuel to burn, resulting in less smoke, and more power. The other thing it does, is cool the intake air charge, also resulting in more oxygen. This happens because of it being depressurized when it is injected into the air stream. I'm sure there is a lot more to it, but that's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.

never mind Jim, if we have not had a group of scientist record data, we couldn't possibly be right. I will point you in the direction of a good thread on nitrous if I can find it. If that is not enough for you, then maybe do some hard core research on why it doesn't work and present it to us. Lord knows you will prove a bunch of us wrong if thats the case. LOL

 

[DPellegrin]

Imills. I'm not understanding your attitude. I'm not out to prove anyone wrong or right for that matter. Just the free exchange of ideas. I'm sorry you are confused. Please do not go any further with this on my account. I will consult a "scientist" with my assesment. I'll let you know what I find out.



Happy Trails to you (Roy Rodgers, 1962)

 

[lmills]

Imills,



Nitrous changes the stoichiometry of a spark ignition engine. It allows you to run it much richer that you could without nitrous. Nitrous has no heating value.



Thanks

OK, I will quote this part. And I'm not trying to approach this negatively. However, how can you make this statement and not get the point of how it works on a diesel? It works in the same aspect. When the nitrous breaks down it creates a very oxygen rich environment in the cylinder which allows you turn burn 100% of the diesel. The reason the gains are seen on heavily fueled trucks is because you can not move enough good/cool air in the cylinder to promote a 100% burn in one combustion cycle. All the nitrous is doing is making a perfect environment for the fuel to burn.