Report: Another Troublesome 6.7 Engine

[grasmo]

No luck mech. said he cleared the code ... it was something to do w/ exhaust pressure sensor up @ the manifold... he pointed it out and said he was gonna call STAR and allow them 48 hours to respond to the code he sent them and we would go from there . Within 500 feet of leaving the new dealership the cel was on again . . went back and he said he knew it would come on again and said to just drive it.

 

[HBarlow]

Have you considered the info provided by sag2 and EB?



Sag2 has written more than once it is critically important for the dealer tech to precisely follow each and every step in the Dodge TSB when service is required. He also emphasised that before a reflash can be successfully downloaded into your ECM a "bootstrap" program must be downloaded first. I interpret the "bootstrap" program download as clearing the old and preparing the ECM to receive the new program. My interpretation may not be correct but may help explain.



EB spoke of how he thinks a dealer tech downloaded a reflash for a pickup application in his cab and chassis truck and provided a link to the correct TSBs.



If I were in your shoes and no doubt frustrated I would gather my service history records and sit down with a service manager, possibly in a different dealership, and try to politely and patiently explain my situation and ask if his tech has completed level 4 training and qualification (the maximum) in category 10 (diesel engine) (this learned from a post by sag2). If his response satisfied me, I would ask if he would agree to have his tech start over with a clean slate and do all the steps exactly as prescribed in the Dodge bulletins including the software bootstrap and reflash downloads and careful cleaning or replacement of the turbo, cat converter, and dpf and any other part indicated by the code reader. Apparently this is all carefully prescribed in Dodge TSB literature but may not be followed by all techs in all cases.



Harvey

 

[grasmo]

When I arrived at the dealer in Thomasville Ga. ( Roy Campbell) yesterday I carried 12 work orders from Cass Burch in Quitman Ga. with me . when I turned in the previous work orders I informed them tat there was A bootstrap flash that may not have been performed in the correct sequence, which they quickly discounted, and their diesel mechanic said he had been to school in Atlanta Ga. For training . Their mechanic seemed to know a little more about the systems on the truck but said he would have to check with STAR to get their Reccomendation on how to address the current issue. I am very mechanical myself and I'm beginning to think there are very few mechanics around that are top guns on this system. Sag2 I wish you were able to get your hands on this one!!! I appreciate all of you guys comments and suggestions.

 

[HBarlow]

Reading between the lines it sounds like you ran into the common problem we all have experienced with dealership service departments.



They freqently don't want questions, comments, suggestions, and certainly not supervision from their customers. I don't blame them for not wanting to waste valuable time with uninformed owners but they hide behind the service writer and shop door to avoid having us figure out that they are poorly trained, poorly equipped, and trying to take shortcuts to tally up flat rate hours.



The situation is additionally complicated by the fact that "STAR" is making the decisions about what parts can be used and what procedures will be authorized. "STAR" may only be a 20-something just out of college sitting in a cubicle with a phone and computer and no real world experience beyond television sets, ipods, boom boxes, and video games.



I may very well be facing the same challenge you are a few months from now. Does your state have an effective lemon law?



Harvey

 

[grasmo]

We have a lemon law here in florida but I bought the truck in Georgia and they have one too. I am going to give this dealer a fair shake at trying to repair it and then I'll pursue the lemon law . I have already read enough about it to understand step 1 is to notify Chrysler of my intentions and I believe I have to allow them 1 final attempt. From there i don't know what will be next.

 

[HBarlow]

I'd think you could go online to your state government webite and find the details of the lemon law somewhere under "consumer protection" or something related to the auto sales industry. It would probably be a good idea to begin reading up to make sure you have met your obligations while allowing your dealer a fair opportunity to meet his also.



I hope your dealer can fix it and avoid a lemon law buyback.



Harvey

 

[grasmo]

Thanks HBarlow I'm gonna fish for info on tdr for georgia lemon law.

 

[sag2]

When I arrived at the dealer in Thomasville Ga. ( Roy Campbell) yesterday I carried 12 work orders from Cass Burch in Quitman Ga. with me . when I turned in the previous work orders I informed them tat there was A bootstrap flash that may not have been performed in the correct sequence, which they quickly discounted, and their diesel mechanic said he had been to school in Atlanta Ga. For training . Their mechanic seemed to know a little more about the systems on the truck but said he would have to check with STAR to get their Reccomendation on how to address the current issue. I am very mechanical myself and I'm beginning to think there are very few mechanics around that are top guns on this system. Sag2 I wish you were able to get your hands on this one!!! I appreciate all of you guys comments and suggestions.

Grasmo, I have noticed in reading of your plight that the truck never stays at the dealer for long. Is it used in business and you can't be without it? Based on your many responses that the CEL comes back on within miles of leaving the dealer, it appears from the outside at least, that the dealer is not making the repair and then verifying it is repaired with a good long test drive. None of us wants to be without the truck, but if I were you I would insist that they drive it 500 miles before giving it back to you repaired. Let them do the testing instead of you. It seems to me it is more inconvenient to keep returning, then to not accept it back until they can prove it is fixed. If I was the technician working on it, I would not want to let it go until I was sure. If for nothing else than to keep from embarrassing myself.

 

[sag2]

Reading between the lines it sounds like you ran into the common problem we all have experienced with dealership service departments.



They freqently don't want questions, comments, suggestions, and certainly not supervision from their customers. I don't blame them for not wanting to waste valuable time with uninformed owners but they hide behind the service writer and shop door to avoid having us figure out that they are poorly trained, poorly equipped, and trying to take shortcuts to tally up flat rate hours.



The situation is additionally complicated by the fact that "STAR" is making the decisions about what parts can be used and what procedures will be authorized. "STAR" may only be a 20-something just out of college sitting in a cubicle with a phone and computer and no real world experience beyond television sets, ipods, boom boxes, and video games.



I may very well be facing the same challenge you are a few months from now. Does your state have an effective lemon law?



Harvey

Not that some of the guys and gals at STAR are not the best at times we have to keep things in perspective here. STAR gets involved for one of two reasons, one for parts that are on restriction, and two when the dealer needs help diagnosing a problem. Now since this is a pick-up I do not believe there are currently any STAR restricted parts they would have to call for authorization.

So that leaves technical help. The diagnostics are pretty good these days, so diagnosing a hard fault is fairly straight forward. Getting help with intermittent problems or repeat problems is also difficult. Some of the guys on TDR are pretty darn sharp, and they don't always give the right fix each time either. So I'm always careful to not throw stones at a guy who is making a diagnosis over the phone, using information that is second hand at best. Believe me it is not easy fixing anything over the phone, no matter how good you are. I always say that garbage in equals garbage out, and I have been known to throw a little garbage around myself.

In this case the best place to start is for the technician to begin at the beginning, and that means looking at all the basics first, then progressing to the tough stuff. I would also request that your (grasmo) dealer contact their local technical adviser for a personal visit to assist in repairing your truck. It's the least they can do to help you.

 

[grasmo]

The mechanic has driven my truck at least 150 miles and has driven it with the computer hooked up to it at least 3 times. Yes it is a work truck. When it is not rolling I am losing money. Ouch! I have a lawn business and I do Backhoe work. When a builder calls I have to go. I agree a mechanic may have to drive my truck for an extended amount of time to make the repair. You would think with the super advanced technology that these trucks have put into them that the scan tool could diagnose the problem quickly and accurately and the mechanic would not have to drive the truck 500 miles to see if he fixed it correctly. I tell you these new emissions are really making it tough on the mechanics. I am old school. I do appreciate all the input. I tell you what the market for these dpf delete kits is gonna get big soon. I believe the aftermarket guys will find a permanent fix for these emission related problems before dodge will... I know that dodges hands are tied and must play by some tough emission rules.

 

[JJulian]

Harvey



I have an 08 3500 cc with about 3k miles & so far I havent had any problems from day one. Just wish mpg was better than 14. 5 but its mostly less than 10 mi trips