New Truck! 2500 vs. 3500

[rneger]

Here in BC, it's much better to get the 3500 as it is clasified as a work truck and you don't have to pay a extra luxury tax as the 2500's. Just another tax grab.



R

 

[Grizzly]

... ... and will be even better when I ditch my overloads in favor of airbags.



Thats my interpretation of the ratings...

Why on earth would want to ditch your overloads in favor of airbags. That's taking a giant step backwards. If Dodge engineers thought that air bags were better than overloads, they would have designed the truck that way.

 

[MMerlino]

There are a few other upgrades for the 3500 that have not been previously mentioned. The 3500 has a much "beefier" rear end than the 2500 (11-1/2" vs 10-1/2"). The 11-1/2 rear end is better suited for towing 5th wheels with the load directly over the rear axle. Put a mag hi-tech cover on it for 8 qt of fluid and it will tow all day and not get much over 150 degrees. Just something to think about... Have fun selecting your new ride.

 

[AH64ID]

Load rating is not on the rims.

DOH!!!

Why on earth would want to ditch your overloads in favor of airbags. That's taking a giant step backwards. If Dodge engineers thought that air bags were better than overloads, they would have designed the truck that way.

Lots of reasons... airbags are quiet, overloads are noisy. . airbags are passive, overloads aren't... airbags are adjustable overloads are not, airbags keep you in a level stance, overloads do not.....

Big rigs run bags... are they inferior?

Airbags are better, but require more user interface and more maintenance... . IMHO thats why they aren't on there from the factory...

There are a few other upgrades for the 3500 that have not been previously mentioned. The 3500 has a much "beefier" rear end than the 2500 (11-1/2" vs 10-1/2"). The 11-1/2 rear end is better suited for towing 5th wheels with the load directly over the rear axle. Put a mag hi-tech cover on it for 8 qt of fluid and it will tow all day and not get much over 150 degrees. Just something to think about... Have fun selecting your new ride.

All 2500 04. 5+ cummins have the 11. 5" AAM, and all 03-04 HO's have the 11. 5".

 

[Grizzly]

DOH!!!

Lots of reasons... airbags are quiet, overloads are noisy. . airbags are passive, overloads aren't... airbags are adjustable overloads are not, airbags keep you in a level stance, overloads do not.....

Big rigs run bags... are they inferior?

Airbags are better, but require more user interface and more maintenance... . IMHO thats why they aren't on there from the factory...

I can not agree with any of your reasons.

 

[AH64ID]

I can not agree with any of your reasons.

I would guess you have never seen/used a rig with bags... . they are the cats meow when it comes to towing/hauling... .



To go along with the stay level issue (overloads take 2" of compression to engage, at least 1500lbs), your headlights stay on the road, your front steering geometry stays in for better steering/braking, your rear pinion stay the same for longer U-joint lift... . in addition to the fact you dont look silly for the *** saggin syndrome.

 

[TCDiesel]

Air suspensions on commercial vehicles are position in front or rear or Both KW is both while the rest of the industry has position rear NEVER position on the TOP of the axle. The aftermarket Bag available for the 3gen is position directly above the axle, this is not what I would consider the proper location,I would install energy 2'' bump stops with additional leaf installed in the overloads,this application will spread the additional weight properly with minimal ride effect. Bags will help but I would prefer to spread the additional weight in four spots rather than directly above the axle

 

[DHeidloff]

I would guess you have never seen/used a rig with bags... . they are the cats meow when it comes to towing/hauling... .



To go along with the stay level issue (overloads take 2" of compression to engage, at least 1500lbs), your headlights stay on the road, your front steering geometry stays in for better steering/braking, your rear pinion stay the same for longer U-joint lift... . in addition to the fact you dont look silly for the *** saggin syndrome.

Air bags level you out but that is the only thing they do right. I had a 96 2500 with over loads and a friend talked me in to putting air bags on to level out my camper. It was a TIPPY CANOE even with the factory sway bars. If the country road said 25mph you better only go 25 mph or you were sucking seat leather. On my 2004. 5 1 ton I loaded up the camper with the stock set up and I was 1" off the rear bump stops. I Worked at Freightliner at the time in the engineering dept so I was familar with the Timbren helpers spoke with the factory rep put a set on the truck about 1/2 hr of work. Truck just touches the overloads the truck sits just above level no SWAY and I can haul 80mph down the highway with no problem. A friend put air bags on his 05 and he needed to add sway bars to it and it now rides like a tank. Mine rides stock until I load it up. Just say no to Air bags!

 

[Grizzly]

I would guess you have never seen/used a rig with bags... . they are the cats meow when it comes to towing/hauling... .



To go along with the stay level issue (overloads take 2" of compression to engage, at least 1500lbs), your headlights stay on the road, your front steering geometry stays in for better steering/braking, your rear pinion stay the same for longer U-joint lift... . in addition to the fact you dont look silly for the *** saggin syndrome.

I still can't agree with you. In all the trucks I have owned, one

F250 and two 3500's all with overloads and 4WD, I have never had any of the problems you speak of. I have never had air bags, but I have known many that do and the stories I've heard makes me never to want them. Air bags can NOT support the weight that overloads can. I never hear any noise from my overloads and my cab-over-campers have always been level as long as you have the right truck under them. That's my 5 cents worth.

 

[TCDiesel]

Use these Problem solved.

 

[AH64ID]

Air bags level you out but that is the only thing they do right. I had a 96 2500 with over loads and a friend talked me in to putting air bags on to level out my camper. It was a TIPPY CANOE even with the factory sway bars. If the country road said 25mph you better only go 25 mph or you were sucking seat leather. On my 2004. 5 1 ton I loaded up the camper with the stock set up and I was 1" off the rear bump stops. I Worked at Freightliner at the time in the engineering dept so I was familar with the Timbren helpers spoke with the factory rep put a set on the truck about 1/2 hr of work. Truck just touches the overloads the truck sits just above level no SWAY and I can haul 80mph down the highway with no problem. A friend put air bags on his 05 and he needed to add sway bars to it and it now rides like a tank. Mine rides stock until I load it up. Just say no to Air bags!

How did they have them plumbed? If they are plumbed as one then yes they will allow sway, but plumbed independently they reduce sway considerably... . But to each there own...

I still can't agree with you. In all the trucks I have owned, one

F250 and two 3500's all with overloads and 4WD, I have never had any of the problems you speak of. I have never had air bags, but I have known many that do and the stories I've heard makes me never to want them. Air bags can NOT support the weight that overloads can. I never hear any noise from my overloads and my cab-over-campers have always been level as long as you have the right truck under them. That's my 5 cents worth.

I hear my overloads daily. . . any time going in or out of a parking lot with a curb/gutter... etc... how can they NOT support the weight?



I am curious about these stories, I have never heard anyone complain about them... just the complaints of those that have "heard" of stories... everyone I know that has had them will always have them on any truck they own, they are that good... .





I guess well agree to disagree, and each run our preferred suspension.

 

[Grizzly]

How did they have them plumbed? If they are plumbed as one then yes they will allow sway, but plumbed independently they reduce sway considerably... . But to each there own...

I hear my overloads daily. . . any time going in or out of a parking lot with a curb/gutter... etc... how can they NOT support the weight?

I am curious about these stories, I have never heard anyone complain about them... just the complaints of those that have "heard" of stories... everyone I know that has had them will always have them on any truck they own, they are that good... .

I guess well agree to disagree, and each run our preferred suspension.

I take it you have never had a top heavy 10 to 11 1/2 foot cab-over-camper. If you had, you would be singing a different tune.

:-{}

 

[Ereynolds72]

Excellent information on here guys. Thanks. If I end up ordering a truck, I'll order a SRW 3500 long bed. Can't find them on the lot anywhere. There are short beds but not long beds.

I did drive an '08 2500 with the G56 and 3. 73 gears. WOW! What a smooth shifting truck. I am convinced now I want the 6spd manual. However, a friend of mine keeps throwing out there to me that an auto has a higher towing capacity than the manual. I notice that they do include 4. 10 gears for auto but only 3. 73s for the manual. Not that I'm too concerned about max tow ratings but I'd like to settle this argument. Why are they rating the auto higher than the manual? That's a little counter-intuitive from what I've always believed.

 

[HBarlow]

No, it's not counterintuitive. It's based on 50-100 years of experience by the manufacturer. It's been that way as long as I can remember and I've owned pickups and hauled slide-in campers or pulled trailers since the '60s.



There are two good reasons. One, the rated torque capacity of the clutch and transmission set by the transmission manufacturer. Two, the common and often accurate assumption by the truck (and transmission) manufacturer that many buyers do not/will not know how to properly use the combination of engine torque, clutch, and transmission to start the load and avoid abusing the driveline.



You can read between the lines on this forum and see it demonstrated. Some have replaced clutches and rebuilt NVG-5600s in as little as 50k miles while others run them several 100k w/o failure.



Ask the opinion of one of the OTR driver/members. There are a few of them here.



Harvey

 

[AH64ID]

The difference, on my truck, is a mere 200 lbs, not enough to even think about... . but the curb weight on the auto is also listed as lighter but 300 some pounds, so that could play a part as GCWR and GVWR are the same...

Me I will take a manual any day over a auto, they are simply more durable at slow speed towing... which I do a lot of on back dirt roads, its very very difficult to keep an auto cool enough in that style of driving... Also I like the gear placement, not only are there 2 more gears to choose from, but even now with a 6 speed auto and a 6 speed man the manual has the gears where I want them for towing, I don't need double overdrives, I want extra hill gears. (Now a 7 speed would be slick... a . 85 OD and . 70 OD would be SWEET on a manual, but not at the expense of that extra gear between 1st and 1:1)

 

[Ereynolds72]

No, it's not counterintuitive. It's based on 50-100 years of experience by the manufacturer. It's been that way as long as I can remember and I've owned pickups and hauled slide-in campers or pulled trailers since the '60s.



There are two good reasons. One, the rated torque capacity of the clutch and transmission set by the transmission manufacturer. Two, the common and often accurate assumption by the truck (and transmission) manufacturer that many buyers do not/will not know how to properly use the combination of engine torque, clutch, and transmission to start the load and avoid abusing the driveline.



You can read between the lines on this forum and see it demonstrated. Some have replaced clutches and rebuilt NVG-5600s in as little as 50k miles while others run them several 100k w/o failure.



Ask the opinion of one of the OTR driver/members. There are a few of them here.



Harvey

You say "No, it's not counterintuitive!" yet you really provide no facts or evidence to support your opinion. I understand there's been some discussion on these forums about how much gear reduction and/or torque multiplication you get from the hydraulic torque converter. Maybe the technology wasn't there in the past but I seem to recall that for about a century, every big rig on the road was a standard transmission. It may be that technology has passed the standard transmission by these days... I was just asking the question; I didn't want to start any flames here.