Emissions....Cummins or Dodge??

[grasmo]

Is the emissions stuff ... .computer etc. software /exhaust... Cummins design or Dodge ??? I'll bet its not Cummins.

 

[sag2]

I'm sure it is a mix of both. The ECM is a Cummins controller, but I would think it is a joint venture to get it to work and pass emissions as a package. The ECM on my brother in laws diesel pusher (Freightliner/Cummins) motor home looks exactly like the one on our trucks.

 

[johncameron]

I'd guess it's completely Cummins. Dodge just gives the requirements.

 

[DPellegrin]

Cummins diesel engines are USEPA and CARB emission certified as Heavy-Heavy Duty diesel engines. The emission test procedure is called out in CFR 40, Part 86, Subpart N. The emission standards are promulgated by USEPA and CARB. I'm sure the emission development work and the associated testing is performed entirely at Cummins. The engine is emission certified on an engine dynamometer and not part of the Dodge chassis, as are passenger cars.

 

[DDahl]

Unfortunately you are wrong. The CC Dodges are 2007 rated as medium heavy duty as an EPA engine rating. The Pickups (6. 7) are rated light heavy duty and are EPA Chassis rated. Both Cummins and Dodge seem to be proud of this (diesel progress). It allows them to short the 2010 pickups on emissions warrantee (check your owners manual).

 

[DPellegrin]

Unfortunately you are wrong. The CC Dodges are 2007 rated as medium heavy duty as an EPA engine rating. The Pickups (6. 7) are rated light heavy duty and are EPA Chassis rated. Both Cummins and Dodge seem to be proud of this (diesel progress). It allows them to short the 2010 pickups on emissions warrantee (check your owners manual).

Perhaps it's a Medium Heavy-Duty diesel engine for 2007 but the emission test procedures are the same as they have always been. That' s CFR 40, Part 86 Subpart N. An engine dyno procedure! Check your Code of Federal Regulations 40!



Respectfully,

 

[Drdorian]

but the emission test procedures are the same as they have always been. That' s CFR 40, Part 86 Subpart N. An engine dyno procedure!

You are partially correct. There are two ways to certify a engine/aftertreatment system - in a dyno cell and on chassis. The on chassis test requirements are different than in a cell and measures are usually X of something per mile vs. per HP or Hp-hour in the cell.



Cummins has design control of the aftertreatment and strategy and Dodge procures the hardware.

 

[MAllen1]

OOOHHH, for Petes' Sake guys, can we all agree that the new emissions SUCK!?!?

 

[klenger]

I suspect that the only influence that Dodge had on the exhaust emissions was the length and bend radius of the tubing.

 

[DPellegrin]

You are partially correct. There are two ways to certify a engine/aftertreatment system - in a dyno cell and on chassis. The on chassis test requirements are different than in a cell and measures are usually X of something per mile vs. per HP or Hp-hour in the cell.



Cummins has design control of the aftertreatment and strategy and Dodge procures the hardware.

Drdorian- I am not "partially", I was completely correct! I spoke to a Cummins Columbus engineer on the subject of ISB engine emisson certification in the Dodge pick-up. He told me that Cummins sells an emission certified engine to Dodge the same way they sell an emission certified engine to Peterbilt or Kenworth or any other truck manufacturer that features the Cummins product. Cummins application engineering works with Dodge engineers in the installation requirements of the engine. These requirements include things like cooling system capacity, maximum allowable air inlet restriction, maximum allowable exhaust backpressure and other installation requirements.



The facts are: Dodge has no involvement in the emission certification process and there are no chassis emission tests performed by Dodge!



Regards,

 

[grasmo]

Very interesting. I would have bet that Dodge was responsible for setting the operating parameters on the software for the emissions. What other equipment is this engine being used in? And are the other applications using the DPF ??? If they are not, what and who's software are they using. I would have thought maybe Bosch would be responsible for commanding the fuel system based on what dodge dictated via DPF requirements. I just drove my 1999 5. 9 to Valdosta( because I don't feel my 6. 7 is roadworthy) and got 21 mpg , Oh Yeah 232,000+ miles Still running great.

 

[MAllen1]

Every time I take something off that is supposed to meet "emmissions" somehow, it always seems like the truck runs better and gets better gas mileage. Now tell me, how is all this emission stuff suppossed to "save the planet" when you get fewer m. p. g. ? Common sense would lead me to say increase the m. p. g. , lower the emissions out the tailpipe.

 

[Drdorian]

Drdorian- I am not "partially", I was completely correct! I spoke to a Cummins Columbus engineer on the subject of ISB engine emisson certification in the Dodge pick-up. He told me that Cummins sells an emission certified engine to Dodge the same way they sell an emission certified engine to Peterbilt or Kenworth or any other truck manufacturer that features the Cummins product.



The facts are: Dodge has no involvement in the emission certification process and there are no chassis emission tests performed by Dodge!



Regards,

Sorry to beat a dead horse but I would like to clear up the confusion here, you are partially correct, Dodge has no involvement in the emissions certification process on the 6. 7. Dodge does not perform chassis tests for the purposes of verification. I never stated that Dodge runs these tests... ... Cummins, however, can and does.



When Cummins sells their emissions certified product they are telling the truth in that it is certified. We are arguing like a couple of school girls on how it can be certified. The engineer you spoke to was correct, but you are incorrect in stating that a dyno cell is the only way to become certified.

 

[DPellegrin]

Drdorian- Nice try! However, this is my last post on this subject. Cummins does not perform chassis dyno emission certification tests-PERIOD, and never has on any manufacturers vehicle in which they supply an engine! The exhaust emission certification procedure for all (Including CAT, Mack, Detroit Diesel,Volvo, etc. ) heavy-duty diesel engines is called out in the Code of Federal Regulations 40, Part 86, Subpart N. If you care to read this you will find that this is a engine dyno based procedure and has been since 1988. NO HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL ENGINE IS EXHAUST EMISSION CERTIFIED USING A CHASSIS DYNO. This is the only procedure allowed by law! If you notice the emission standards to which the engine must comply are called out in grams/bhp-hr. Brake horsepower-hour (bhp-hr) means engine dynamometer. If it were certified on a chassis dynamometer (Light-duty) then the emission units would be grams/mile. There are no emission standards for diesel engines in "grams/mile".



Now, light-duty gasoline vehicles is a different story. These are exhaust emission certified using a chassis dynamometer.



THE END

 

[Shadrach]

Every time I take something off that is supposed to meet "emmissions" somehow, it always seems like the truck runs better and gets better gas mileage. Now tell me, how is all this emission stuff suppossed to "save the planet" when you get fewer m. p. g. ? Common sense would lead me to say increase the m. p. g. , lower the emissions out the tailpipe.

The EPA decided that less emissions ( stuff we can't see ) coming out of the tailpipe was more important than getting more mpg. In achieving this the engine burns more fuel ( not my idea - theirs ). Unfortunately it cost the operator more cash ( not their problem - ours ). Shadrach

 

[klenger]

The EPA decided that less emissions ( stuff we can't see ) coming out of the tailpipe was more important than getting more mpg. In achieving this the engine burns more fuel ( not my idea - theirs ). Unfortunately it cost the operator more cash ( not their problem - ours ). Shadrach

It's even worse than that. Now, in addition to the lower MPG and buring more fuel, Dodge recommends that, for owners who don't drive their trucks hard, you should take the truck out on the freeway at high speeds once a week and simply burn more fuel just to clean our the DPF. How green is that? #@$%!

 

[grasmo]

Okay. . the dpf is designed and manufacterd by Mattel... . The computer is manufacterd by Tandy and the software is ... . get this... . supplied by Playskool. And if you try to take it off mama's gonna spank. Remember when thieves were stealing wheels and tires from dealerships at night sure would be easy to steal dpf's but then again they only cost 3000. 00 or so and they would be hard to remove???? besides you would never be able to sell one??? They never stop up ???? I 'll leave the wrenches under my truck if any one wants mine.

 

[wildwestdiesel]

Unfortunately you are wrong. The CC Dodges are 2007 rated as medium heavy duty as an EPA engine rating. The Pickups (6. 7) are rated light heavy duty and are EPA Chassis rated. Both Cummins and Dodge seem to be proud of this (diesel progress). It allows them to short the 2010 pickups on emissions warrantee (check your owners manual).

what do you mean by "short the 2010... "

 

[CSkal]

Okay. . the dpf is designed and manufacterd by Mattel... . The computer is manufacterd by Tandy and the software is ... . get this... . supplied by Playskool.

:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf

Now that's funny! "Tandy". OMG, I haven't heard that moniker for YEARS!

 

[RVTRKN]

The EPA decided that less emissions ( stuff we can't see ) coming out of the tailpipe was more important than getting more mpg. In achieving this the engine burns more fuel ( not my idea - theirs ). Unfortunately it cost the operator more cash ( not their problem - ours ). Shadrach

Typical government solutions, our dime paying these idiots, and our dime paying for their decisions.