Electric or propane water heater?

[Matt400]

Our propane water heater is 10 yrs old, has not been consistent with temperature for the past couple years so we are thinking its time to replace.

Last month we went through 188 gal. of propane which seems kinda high.



So my question is. . has anyone switched from one to the other and noticed a considerable savings?

Our central heat is the only other propane being used, set at 63 during the day and 68 in the evening.

 

[formula]

Electric will definitely cost more to run than propane. In addition, most of the usual type of electrics (storage tank style) have a very slow recovery compared to propane.



There are several things that can cause the water heater to use more fuel than it should. Temp set too high. Unit in a cold area such as a garage. Insufficient insulation. Scale buildup from hard water. To name a few.



There are many options for new units as well. You may want to have a look at an on-demand type of propane fired unit. Or maybe a condensing furnace with an indirect water heater. Your hot water usage habits and demands will determine what you need to do. Post some more info. There may be some HVAC guys around here that can offer some better suggestions.

 

[Matt400]

Post some more info. There may be some HVAC guys around here that can offer some better suggestions.

More info. .

Our house is a single level just under 2000 sqft so with it stretched out we also have it on a circulation pump that runs 24/7.

Its built on a slab so the pipes are down under.

The heater is in the garage with no blanket on it, thought you don't do that for propane heaters?

The master bath is on the opposite end of the house so thats the reason for the pump.



All the kids are gone now so its just us two "most of the time" cuz one of them + a G-friend has stayed the last 3 weekends but gone during the week.

I shower twice per day, morning is fast rinse while night is a little longer but I get clean and get out. Wife showers once per day.



I am thinking our son and his G-friend might be making a pretty good dent cuz their showers are pretty long, long enough to empty the tank sometimes.



When the heater has not been used for a few hrs, its had plenty of time to recover, there are times when we get pretty hot water and other times its just above warm. The setting is set above medium and below high.



We have soft water in our area.



When I have gone out to look at the heater I have noticed the flame is an orange color, shouldn't that be blue like what you would see on our campers stove top?

 

[daytripper63]

More info. .

Our house is a single level just under 2000 sqft so with it stretched out we also have it on a circulation pump that runs 24/7.

Its built on a slab so the pipes are down under.

The heater is in the garage with no blanket on it, thought you don't do that for propane heaters?

The master bath is on the opposite end of the house so thats the reason for the pump.



All the kids are gone now so its just us two "most of the time" cuz one of them + a G-friend has stayed the last 3 weekends but gone during the week.

I shower twice per day, morning is fast rinse while night is a little longer but I get clean and get out. Wife showers once per day.



I am thinking our son and his G-friend might be making a pretty good dent cuz their showers are pretty long, long enough to empty the tank sometimes.



When the heater has not been used for a few hrs, its had plenty of time to recover, there are times when we get pretty hot water and other times its just above warm. The setting is set above medium and below high.



We have soft water in our area.



When I have gone out to look at the heater I have noticed the flame is an orange color, shouldn't that be blue like what you would see on our campers stove top?

Matt, check your P. M. s

 

[Chief USA]

Have you considered a tankless water heater. You can get them in electric or propane. They are more expensive to purchase but use MUCH less energy to operate and last much longer.



Tankless Water Heaters by Stiebel Eltron & Takagi - electric, gas, electronic, demand, instant, nasa, waterheaters, tankless



BoschHotWater.com Home



Noritz - The #1 Manufacturer of Tankless Gas Hot Water Heaters

 

[Dieselnut59]

I would check your heating system. A propane water heater uses WAY less gas than a furnace. I have all propane appliances (heat, stove, dryer, water heater) and the furnace is by far the biggest user of fuel. I have a dual fuel system, which is what I highly recommend. It runs as a heat pump until it gets to be 35F or colder outside, then switches to a gas furnace. It does a great job.

You may have sediment in the bottom of your tank, which kills efficiency and makes the heater run more.

As mentioned,the tankless heaters are most efficient and i may soon consider one, as my water heater is nearly 10 years old also. Stay away from electric. Once you have been "spoiled" by having a propane water heater, you will hate an electric one.

 

[Matt400]

Actually yes. . I am looking into that at the moment. First I have a few things to check on our current system to make sure its working correctly and if replacement is needed we may go that route.



The only thing about that is the run from the heater location to the master bath is probably about 50' so you would have to let the water run a bit.

We do have a circulation loop and not to sure if that would get caped or could be used to speed up the run time with a tank-less.

 

[p-Bar]

Deiselnut is right sediment in the bottom of the tank will insulate the heat source from the water thus causing it to become inefficient . I just replaced mine after 12 years of service. My father inlaw was a retired plumber he said don't buy the W. H. with the higher year warranty because they are all made the same. Running a recirc pump 24/7 is a waste of energy and money . Mine starts at 5:00am and is thermostatically set to shut off as the system heats up, then shuts off totally at 11:00 p. m. I flush the new tank once a month. I installed a ball valve and hose bib on the drain so it won't fail plus have a water softner on the system. I am propane also

 

[PToombs]

I'd go with the tankless on demand type. Comes on when you need it, use as much as you want. When you shut off the water, the heater goes off.

I'm going this route the next time. I didn't have the funds for it ($400) so I went regular ($150). I'll find the money next time. I figured it would pay for itself in 2 or 3 years.

 

[Matt400]

More info yet. .

I checked the central heating system, it seems to do well, nice blue flame, doesn't have to run long and puts out good heat.



Back to the WH, it has these settings:

• Very Hot
  
• C
  
• B
  
• A
  
• Hot
  
• .
  
• .
  
• .
  
• Low
  

Last summer I remember getting tired of the intermittent lukewarm results and moved it from A up to between B & C so the setting has been higher than I thought.



The yellow / orange flame bugs me on the burner, with the inspection cover & door open it burns a nice blue but when I close up the door and start to place the cover plate on it turns color like the oxygen is being choked off.



So I am thinking the vent pipe might be restricted and go up in the attic to take a look when I discovered something that just doesn't look right.



From the heater I have a vertical 5' section that goes to a 90 in the attic and then a 10' section with very little slope to another 90 and then an 8' vertical section.

I am looking at that thinking how in heck can exhaust flow like that???

Its no wonder the flame is orange and I probably have forgotten about turning it up other times before last summer. Add this poor vent job to sediment build up and things are not looking good.



Question now is what would you do:

1) flush the tank & change that 10' section to use 45's on each end so the pipe has some vertical direction



2) get a new tank heater & fix the vent



3) go tank-less & fix the vent



I have too much on my plate to mess with this stuff being overwhelmed at work as it is so would probably just hire it out, thinking #3 would be the best long term approach.

 

[p-Bar]

You will have to change the vent for the tankless, and you will have to have 3/4" gas line due to the btu's of the unit. The tankless is great for kids they can stay in the shower all day

 

[PToombs]

I'm sure that's just what he wants to hear! :-laf

 

[MAleshire]

Tankless is the way to go. Even replacing your tank with a new one would help because they are now insulated better and more effeicient. Gas/Propane over electric will give you a quicker recovery and more efficiency. But, why not try a few other things first. Your furnace may need an adjustment to make it more efficient. Try flushing out the current water tank to see it that helps. Check for any dripping hot water faucets. And, check you propane system for leaks, particulatly at the tank where the fitting is threaded into the tank. A slow leak may not be easy to detect in outside air, particulary during winter temps. Get your nose right down to the connection and take a good sniff. Also, spray soapy water around the connections and look for bubbles. Next load of propane ask that they do a system pressure check. These are all free diagnostics tests that may save some money. There is a thermal blanket available for gas/propane water heaters. Ask your propane distributor about one. They aren't costly and would help a little. Hope this helps.



Skip

 

[daytripper63]

You will have to change the vent for the tankless, and you will have to have 3/4" gas line due to the btu's of the unit. The tankless is great for kids they can stay in the shower all day

Actually with the higher pressure of propane and as long as the gas pipe run is not to long you only need 1/2 gas pipe, only on natural gas you need 3/4.



plus anyone whom has a water heater approx 10-15 years old and you only get a little bit of hot water when you turn it on and then it just supplies warm water, there was a class action suit yrs ago for the fill tubes in water htrs. When cold water goes into your wtr htr it goes through a tube that sticks in approx 4 feet so the incoming cold water goes to the bottom of the tank, where it is heated then rises to top and out it goes when you turn on your faucet.

The lawsuit was over the fill tubes cracking or disinigrating and then would allow incoming cold water to mix with the hot water at the top of the tank instead of being pushed to the bottom therfore drastically reducing the amount of hot water you get.

 

[rubberneck]

I guess it would depend on how much your power costs on which is cheaper. I was complaining to my propane guy how much propane we are burning. He was telling me that a conventional syle propane water heater can burn up to 40 gallons a month. My house has 2 water heaters, so I shut one off. It was only for the kids and spare baths anyway, and the kids alway end up using our shower anyway it seems. Propane is now 3 bucks a gallon, so do the math. Would an equal sized electric run you 120 bucks a month. I really think with my power company the electric might be cheaper. When i built my house propane was 1 buck a gallon, so i didn't really give it a second thought, propane was the way to go.

 

[Matt400]

The tankless is great for kids they can stay in the shower all day

I remember when the kids were little and they would stay in the shower, we would holler in there. . time to shut it off! When they didn't I would turn off the hot exit valve at the tank, that would do it :-laf

They are all grown now but there will eventually be grand kids one day.

daytripper63- Actually with the higher pressure of propane and as long as the gas pipe run is not to long you only need 1/2 gas pipe

Mine is 1/2" and runs about 60' from heater to tank.



MAleshire- thanks for the tips, I did check for leaks and have not found any yet. Also opened up the drain for several minutes, didn't notice anything unusual other than the water temp out the hose was not that hot.



I made sure the vent pipe was clear today and rechecking the flame I noticed that only when I closed up the access door it would change color, if I peeked through a tiny corner I could see the flame would slowly go back to a more bluish color with the door closed so maybe thats ok- dunno.

 

[rbattelle]

I remember when the kids were little and they would stay in the shower, we would holler in there. . time to shut it off! When they didn't I would turn off the hot exit valve at the tank, that would do it

That is brilliant! I doubt I'd ever think of it. I'll be keeping that little tidbit in my back pocket for the future!

My house is 100% electric (we don't have municipal gas supply, and we don't have a propane tank). Obviously, then, my water heater is electric.

The electric works okay, but in a hard water system (like we have), I'd much prefer gas. I think gas would last longer. The electric heating elements have a nasty tendency to burn out when sediment accumulation gets too high.

When one of the elements (usually the bottom one first) blows, that's it - you're finished. Time for a new tank NOW. I hate things that fail catastrophically and without warning.

But with a gas heater, if sediment builds up all you lose is efficiency - you can still make hot water while you search for a new heater.

I really like the tankless gas heaters. Very nice, simple, small design. If I had gas service, that's what I'd get.

Ryan

 

[Matt400]

The last couple days the wife and I have been testing the system with the circ. loop turned off.

At first it seemed like a pain to wait for hor water but once you get use to turning the shower on ahead of time its not too bad. We have been spoiled having hot water right away.



I think the loop probably contributes to the waste also.

Leaving the loop off permanently sounds like a bad idea though cuz we would have a slug of water caught in the system and never moving, sounds unsanitary to me.



The tank-less sounds like a good idea especially when a replacement is needed anyway. Only thing is that existing loop. I don't think a loop like that would work with a tank-less.

 

[Matt400]

That is brilliant! I doubt I'd ever think of it. I'll be keeping that little tidbit in my back pocket for the future!

:-laf I never let on what I was doing, I let them think they ran the tank out of hot water!

 

[formula]

:-laf I never let on what I was doing, I let them think they ran the tank out of hot water!

:-laf:-laf I bet my sister still doesn't know that the water heater at my parents' house was a tankless. Ah, evil, yes... . but got her out of the shower right quick I used to make sure to slowly turn off the hot feed so it would appear as if the "tank" ran out.