Truckers strike and now higher prices

[JDiepstra]

Diesel prices are up here after the strike. Did anyone see any positive results?

 

[jgillott]

Our prices increased exactly $. 15/gal

 

[Excessive Force]

Diesel prices are up here after the strike. Did anyone see any positive results?

The results, be it positive or negative should happen in abbboooouuuuut 9 months... ... ... ...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Anyone thinking the trucker's strike would create an IMMEDIATE change for the better were kidding themselves - results, if any will take a while, combined with still more and larger strikes. The most immediate effect is exactly as noted, a small INCREASE in consumer costs. In other words, suffer a bit NOW to enable potential relief LATER, or just do nothing, and see the continuing upward spiral in costs.



It's EXACTLY the slowdown in production and delivery that send the CLEAR message to those in positions to MAKE the changes we all are looking for.



For my part, I'm willing to do without for a while - or pay a bit more, IF the end result is that the "powers-that-be" realize we've had enough, and the first step is strikes, but ROPE will soon follow! :-laf



This current fuel pricing situation is ARTIFICIAL, it CAN be corrected to a large degree, but only with focused, determined action - the small recent strike was just the FIRST step!

 

[DBentley]

Price up here to

4. 00-4. 19+ for dsl.

 

[JFaulkner]

The strike was a joke and any stupid scheme to force a lower price is a joke also. Apparently the term WORLD MARKET means nothing to most truck drivers. Raise your freight rates or get out of the business and stop screwing it up for the rest of us. The prices will go down when the market calls for it, just like every other commodity. The price of corn is up also while lumber is down, it's not a conspiracy it's supply and demand and fuel is no different.

 

[Dieselnut59]

The strike was a joke and any stupid scheme to force a lower price is a joke also. Apparently the term WORLD MARKET means nothing to most truck drivers. Raise your freight rates or get out of the business and stop screwing it up for the rest of us. The prices will go down when the market calls for it, just like every other commodity. The price of corn is up also while lumber is down, it's not a conspiracy it's supply and demand and fuel is no different.

Someone who UNDERSTANDS the law of supply and demand, and knows how the free market works! I like that! You know, they do not teach economics in government schools and we clearly see the results of that daily, but especially when someone is dissatisfied with the price of a good or service in high demand/short supply.

If people REALLY want to make a difference, they would push for domestic oil production, more refineries and LESS government intervention into the free market. Or how about pushing for the government to lower taxes on fuel and remove the tax on oil companies (which are passed on in the cost of fuel)?

 

[DBoggs]

The strike was a joke and any stupid scheme to force a lower price is a joke also. Apparently the term WORLD MARKET means nothing to most truck drivers. Raise your freight rates or get out of the business and stop screwing it up for the rest of us. The prices will go down when the market calls for it, just like every other commodity. The price of corn is up also while lumber is down, it's not a conspiracy it's supply and demand and fuel is no different.

You know, JFaulkner, I take offense at these kinds of uniformed, ignorant blanket statements. I'm a trucker and fortunatley the company I am leased to has excellent rates so I'm not suffering from the fuel prices like so many others are. In fact because of the fuel surcharges we charge I basically get my fuel for about 60 cents/gal.



However the majority of Owner Operators don't have much say in freight rates. The companies they are leased to, or the brokers set the rates and in most instances they can't be changed.



I personally hope the price of fuel continues to rise, since eventually I won't be paying anything at all for my fuel, my customers will. That, at the end of the day means you, the consumer.



The O/O's that mismanage their operations will be out of business, which appears to what you want, but take away enough of them and see what happens when the store shelves aren't stocked like you think they should be. The smart ones don't support strikes or slowdowns or whatever you want to call them, nor do I. We raise our rates if we can or seek out companies that compensate fairly. Either way, you the consumer pay more.



By the way, I work in the oil industry, hauling the crude oil your gas and diesel comes from. If you think Chevron or Exxon, or BP or any of the others aren't passing on the high transportation rates we charge and we charge to cover our high fuel costs, you are living in a fantasy land. I'm in business for two reasons. I like the freedom to call my own shots and I intend to make money.



So the next time you want to knock truckers, fine, do it. Just remember how everything you own got to you.

 

[JFaulkner]

The only way to lower the prices is to USE LESS!!!!!!! That's it! I know it's not as exciting as a bunch of dumb *expletives* driving around the US capitol honking their horns while excessively burning fuel (how ironic :-laf) but unlike hair brained ideas like that, this one actually works.

I think this pic is appropriate
#ad

 

[JFaulkner]

You know, JFaulkner, I take offense at these kinds of uniformed, ignorant blanket statements. I'm a trucker and fortunatley the company I am leased to has excellent rates so I'm not suffering from the fuel prices like so many others are. In fact because of the fuel surcharges we charge I basically get my fuel for about 60 cents/gal.

However the majority of Owner Operators don't have much say in freight rates. The companies they are leased to, or the brokers set the rates and in most instances they can't be changed.

I personally hope the price of fuel continues to rise, since eventually I won't be paying anything at all for my fuel, my customers will. That, at the end of the day means you, the consumer.

The O/O's that mismanage their operations will be out of business, which appears to what you want, but take away enough of them and see what happens when the store shelves aren't stocked like you think they should be. The smart ones don't support strikes or slowdowns or whatever you want to call them, nor do I. We raise our rates if we can or seek out companies that compensate fairly. Either way, you the consumer pay more.

By the way, I work in the oil industry, hauling the crude oil your gas and diesel comes from. If you think Chevron or Exxon, or BP or any of the others aren't passing on the high transportation rates we charge and we charge to cover our high fuel costs, you are living in a fantasy land. I'm in business for two reasons. I like the freedom to call my own shots and I intend to make money.

So the next time you want to knock truckers, fine, do it. Just remember how everything you own got to you.

Well Sir my family has owned a trucking company since the 40's when my grandpa had a milk route. We've been through MANY so called crisis's and we've seen more than one owner operator or company go under. None of them have been because of the owner being too smart and managing their finances correctly. If you were dumb enough to enter into a contract with a company that didn't address such price sensitive items such as FUEL then you deserve what you get. I always hear drivers saying "Fuel costs $X. XX per gallon but the load only pays $X. XX per mile". This has to be the dumbest statement since the load doesn't pay ANYTHING until you say "YES, I'll take it". Stop hauling freight that doesn't pay, plain and simple. Oh I almost forgot we also have our brokers license and post available loads on load boards (i. e. Internet Truckstop ect... )so we see both sides of the business.

The O/O's that mismanage their operations will be out of business,
which appears to what you want, but take away enough of them and see what happens when the store shelves aren't stocked like you think they should be.

If I feel the load should pay $3. 00 per mile for me to make any money and some guy is willing to haul it for $1. 50, why should I feel sorry for him when he's out of business? The load will still get hauled when he's gone because someone like me will be there to take it when the rate goes back up.

We have 3 trucks under contract with one company and for ever $. 04 fuel goes up I raise the rate accordingly. This contract has been active for over 10yrs, if a business owner can't come up with simple math like that then there's no hope for them. Several of our other trucks haul grain for a local elevator and instead of raising the freight rate they sell us fuel at a discount in exchange. It's a win-win for both of us.

Funny how if you change the argument slightly peoples outlook changes. If this was a thread about "Mexican Trucks" hauling freight cheap and "keeping the American trucker down" everyone would be in agreement bashing Mexican trucks. But when its your fellow American trucker hauling cheap freight keeping prices down you guys don't say squat. Please refer to above image!! haha

 

[HBarlow]

To JFaulkner and DieselNut59 I say amen!



It is nice to read intelligent, informed posts written by folks who understand the simple principles of economics. Those who do are very rare here.



Does anyone actually think that OPEC is going to pay any attention to trucker strikes, consumers refusing to fill their tanks on certain days or even for a week or two at a time? Does anyone actually believe that a new president in 2009 or letters to congress is going to change the price of a barrel of crude oil from the sands of Saudi Arabia?



If so, you are burying your head in the sand. I think it must be because it is easier to believe in conspiracy theories than to read and study intelligent articles and discuss the economic concepts with someone more learned until the person actually understands the issues.



With the phony, shallow nature of our politicians who promise anything voters will believe to be elected or reelected does anyone believe that if politicians had the power to lower the price of diesel fuel and gasoline they wouldn't do it tonight?

 

[DBoggs]

Mr. Faulkner, I have reevaluated my attitude from last night. I was wrong to take offense from your statement. You are entitled to your opinion. I wasn't arguing about your point of supply and demand, obviously if less is used prices will eventually come down. Nor was I questioning the effectivness of stikes. I don't support them and I don't think they work. What I took exception to was your percieved attitude that truckers are forcing the price of fuel up simply because of their actions in supporting something they think is going to help.



I'm happy that you have been able to stay in business for 60 years, although I have a hard time understanding the anti-trucking sentiments you seem to have.



I won't post on this thread anymore, I'll just be a "dumb *expletive*" truck driver driving around NE Utah making money.



Duane Boggs

Proud American Trucker

 

[HBarlow]

Duane,



It takes a man of character to come back to an internet thread and apologize with class for a misunderstanding. I salute you for doing that.



I spent three years on the road as a wannabe trucker, an RV transporter, I met and talked with a few truckers along the way. Some of them are intelligent, educated men, exactly as in other industries, who love the freedom of the open road and choose to be owner/operators or drivers.



Please don't go away. Continue to post your opinions. Yours are as good as anyone else's.



Harvey

 

[pwr2tow]

Supply and demand!!!!! HMMMM!!!!! Who do you think created the shortage, us consumers!!!! No!! Big oil, the same ones others on this board seem to support. Makes me wonder why, maybe they have stocks on the open market. Don't know.

There's a great world surplus of crude oil. Big oil has bought up and shut down refineries. Big oil will not pump crude unless prices match what they want. Big oil shut down supply to create demand. Yah, I guess supply and demand works. It only depends on which side of the fence your standing on when we start complaining.

I have a friend who works in the oil fields for over 30 years. We both live in ND where this supposed great oil find was discovered. We've known about it since we started 30 years ago. It was known about long before then. A few years ago you would have been hard pressed to find an oil well pumping. Not talking about drilling a well, an already active well capped and not pumping. The oil is there folks, just like back in the 70's it was there.

To sit on your donkey and do nothing will deliver just that, NOTHING, ZILTCH, NADA. Strike can and do work, maybe not right away, maybe just an eye opener at first. Little things have a way of manifesting into bigger things.

O. K. I'll get down off my soap box now.

 

[TAbbott]

The title of this thread really bothers me for some reason: "Truckers strike and now higher prices" -- like there might be some sort of cause and effect relationship where none exists.



It's like saying everyone that ate carrots in 1900 is now dead. Do we really think the carrots had anything to do with it? One just happened to follow the other. I defy anyone to prove statistically that that abortive truckers strike moved fuel prices one iota one way or the other.



Also, with respect to those who say conserving now (reducing demand) will bring down prices -- while a rule of thumb and true in most instances -- I have serious doubts that is really true in this case for several reasons: First, we are dealing with a monopoly on the supply side and rapidly increasing demand globally, even if we cut back on our consumption.



The answer lies in increasing supply that is not controlled by an antagonistic monopoly half way around the world. Domestic supplies need to be made available --- abundant domestic supply needs to be made available -- and it clearly exists. Then, if prices spike we turn on the tap and drive them back down to a reasonable level. It also offers the benefit of only selling our domestic oil at the top of the market.



If we have the capacity to quickly flood our market and others with relatively cheap oil, there is at least a bargaining chip to be used against those who are actively trying to reduce us to 3rd world status.



Second, with particular respect to middle distilates of which diesel fuel is one, our refined diesel is now "close enough" to meeting European spec fuel that it can and is being shipped overseas where the oil company's can make even greater profits than they can by selling the same product domestically. Since the object of a corporation is to make money, who can blame them?



When there's an immediately available and willing market worldwide, how much is our reducing consumption going to impact the market price? While each of us can probably save a little money directly by consuming less, as far as moving the price much by doing so, I don't think it's gonna happen.



Diesel supply is not short. You can buy all of it you want if you're willing to pay the $1. 00 per quart or more that it takes these days.



My big truck carries 300 gallons of fuel, and last week in La Salle, IL it cost nearly $1200. 00 to fill the tanks on it and the reefer. Next week, it will be more. Fortunately, the load/s pay enough to justify that expense but it's still a big hit when one round trip to the east coast and back costs $4,500. 00 or so just for fuel and it's associated taxes.



Another issue touched on by many is "just don't haul cheap freight. " All well and good, but most single owner-operators have somewhere between zero and less than zero pricing power. You can't get more than the market will bear with any kind of regularity. If the market says trucks are moving east to west for $3500. 00, the odds on you getting $4,000. 00 aren't good. So, the actuality of it all is that you can either take the $3500. 00 load today or sit for a while and then take the $3500. 00 load after you've lost the one thing you can never get back -- time, and the opportunity that exists with it to get to your next profitable load.



I guess as long as one doesn't haul cheap freight in both directions, it all averages out.

 

[TAbbott]

With respect to trucking, the object of it all now is to stay alive until the market conditions change in your favor. Right now the supply of available trucks says rates are down. Soon, when many of the weaker players go out of business, which they will, those conditions will change and rates will come back.



It's the way it works in a capitalistic society.

 

[HBarlow]

pwr2tow,



You are apparently confusing domestic supply of diesel fuel which is not driving the price with world supply of crude oil, which is.



OPEC nations control supply in order to keep the price up. They have huge supplies of crude oil under their sands but for their own economic (or political) interests they choose not to open the spigots wide.



As has been written here many times, China and India have industrialized and their economies have grown tremendously in the past few years. The result is those two countries now demand huge volumes of crude oil which drives up prices of crude. All the strikes and protests Americans can stage will have no effect whatsoever on OPEC.



Increasing our own supply of crude oil would reduce the price we have to pay and would reduce the control that OPEC has over market prices.

 

[catoiler]

The strike was a joke and any stupid scheme to force a lower price is a joke also. Apparently the term WORLD MARKET means nothing to most truck drivers. Raise your freight rates or get out of the business and stop screwing it up for the rest of us. The prices will go down when the market calls for it, just like every other commodity. The price of corn is up also while lumber is down, it's not a conspiracy it's supply and demand and fuel is no different.

It's people like you that beleive that bs that keep the prices up. it has nothing to do with supply and demand it is controled by the stock traders,IE money men!

 

[HBarlow]

It's people like you that beleive that bs that keep the prices up. it has nothing to do with supply and demand it is controled by the stock traders,IE money men!

Catoiler,



Okay let's consider your position to see if it makes sense. Stock traders buy a commodity, crude oil, to sell at a profit. What traders do is not magic and doesn't require a Ph. D. to understand.



Let's analyze how that works in familiar terms that all of us can understand. We'll use the example of a used car dealer. He goes to car auctions and bids on the cars or trucks he wants in order to resell them from his lot. His goal is to buy good cars as cheaply as he can because he wants to transport them back to his lot, detail and inspect them, repair anything he finds wrong with the cars, and sell them at a profit. He knows from long experience or from a Kelly Blue Book or other pricing guide in his back pocket what most popular and common used cars will bring at retail on his lot so his bidding is guided by the retail value of the car.



If this used car dealer wanted to drive up the price of used cars in his area he could pay a lot more than other bidders for the cars he bids on ... ..... but how would he sell them at a profit if he overpaid? His competitors would have purchased their inventory at lower prices and could offer them for sale, at a profit, for less than he paid for his cars. Prospective buyers shopping for a particular vehicle, a late model Dodge-Cummins for example, might stop by and inspect his trucks and try to buy one. As soon as a smart buyer realized he could buy a similar truck at another lot on the other side of town for $2500 less they would move on. He would be broke and out of business quickly.



Let's take this example one step farther. Let's assume that all the used car dealers in this city got together at a meeting and decided to drive up the price of used Dodge Rams in their city by overbidding the prices at the local auction. They do that and pay $2000 more than each truck is worth, clean them up and take them back to their lots and put price tags on them at their inflated price, $2000 above retail market value. One or two uninformed buyers might buy from them but in a day of internet websites, easy travel, pricing guides available on line, and other sources, most informed buyers would simply drive to another city to buy their late model used Dodge.



Markets for almost any commodity are large consisting of hundreds, thousands, or even millions of prospective buyers. Human nature cannot be easily influenced or changed. Buyers tend to do what is in their best interest.



The used car dealers who tried to drive up the price of used trucks in their city would fail.



It is the same with crude oil traders. If they decided to pay more for crude oil from OPEC they would soon be out of business because it is an open, competitive market. Other traders, acting in their own self interest, would buy at the world market price and sell at a profit to educated buyers who would buy at the lowest price.



Your position doesn't stand up to simple analysis.



Supply and demand rules all markets that are allowed to operate freely.

 

[FLynes]

Gentlemen, there's a very simple solution to all of this: we need to stop exporting all the oil we pump overseas, while at the same time build new refineries... not one new refinery has been built since 1975. I'd really like to understand this dependance we have on foreign oil, when we have a ton of the stuff here.



I was listening to a local radio show the other day, and this guy called in and was talking about his Dad who worked the oil fields up in Alaska. He said that not one drop of the crude stays in the USA. This really doesn't baffle me one bit, given the desire to make a profit.



I've written it elsewhere, and I'll write it again, we're slowly headed to another 1970's scenario of sitting in line for our fuel... . anyone remember that? It sucked bad. I also remember not even ten years ago the price of regular gas in Colorado Springs was $. 76/gal at the U-Pump It station.