Truckers strike and now higher prices

[CJ Johansson]

Hang onto your hats... the price of hops went from $3/pound to around $25/pound since everyone is growing corn!!! It'll be cheaper for a bottle of whiskey!

And, everyone's growing corn instead of barley too, so the price of barley is way up too. It won't be long before gas is cheaper than beer.



As for whiskey, true, that corn is going to make alcohol, but most of it is going into fuel tanks, not bottles so I doubt you'll find the price of Jack going down soon...



-cj

 

[JDiepstra]

If we would have done nothing back in the 70's we would have been paying more for energy in the 80's and 90's yet Big oil survived without the high prices.



To sit back and do nothing will get the same results, Nothing.



Seems some are content to explain away our problems while continueing to let them get worse.



Suffer a little now to make it better in the future. That's what our forfathers did. Or let thing continue as status until it breaks from desperation.



I would rather try do something now than to wait until desperation sets in, desperate people do desperate things!!



10% of $100,000 is one thing 10% of Billions is gougeing. Price per barrel goes up, 10 minutes later the stations are upping the price. The price of the barrel of oil turned into energy shouldn't see a price increase for a few weeks yet it goes up instantly.



Flame away, I've been called bonkers before.

Don't forget to mention that on the rare occasion that oil does go down, there is no decrease in fuel prices. Maybe a cent or two tops, spread out over a week. But nothing compareable to the immediate, large increases.

 

[JDiepstra]

I wonder if your opinion would be the same if you worked in the oil industry or had invested in oil company stock as part of a retirement plan.

Do you think it is the people who actually do the work in the oil industry, and those middle class hard working folks who have invested their retirement assets in big oil who are the ones who are getting rich? No. It is the people behind the scenes, running the companies, and those with millions and millions to invest, day tradeing, who are getting rich off of those with less.



Ok, now I am sure someone will respond about thats what great about Capitalism and all that. Blah Blah Blah.

 

[FLynes]

Capitalism IS great, but there has to be a balance of growth, and right now it's tipped way off the scale in the favor of Big Business, and not the working folk.

 

[RGardner]

We played this game with Standard oil earlier in our history.

 

[FLynes]

Yeah, and now Standard's new name is Chevron

 

[mcsinfl]

an interesting abc video covering a few topics, primarily oil. For those of you say it's market that's driving the cost of fuel, I don't believe it. Yes, I blame Bush.



YouTube - Bush CHOKES as SAUDI ARABIA Profits in OIL and U. S. WEAPONS

 

[HBarlow]

pwr2tow,



I guess that was noble of you but I'm not sure how that relates to all the chatter about reducing the profits of oil companies.



How would hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of shareholders and employees of the thousands of companies that make up the oil industry benefit from giving up their income from investments or wages?



Many, including at least one TDR member I know, funded his retirement by investing in oil company stock while he was working. His primary source of retirement income is the amount he draws out of his oil company investment every month. Do you think he should be willing to give up his retirement income so you can buy cheaper fuel?

 

[HBarlow]

Many of you it appears are conditioned from birth to rant about the "rich" and blame the rich for everything in life you don't have. Apparently you consider yourself among the poor. That is sad.



One of the great strengths of America is our freedom and opportunity. Working within our free market capitalist economy any citizen can choose to become very comfortable financially, even rich.



Anyone with a good idea, a willingness to take responsibility for his own destiny, a willingness to work hard, and a willingness to take on personal risk, can become rich in one generation in this great nation.



Many of you would be much happier if you invested something from every pay check in oil company stock and participated in the "windfall profits" as the lying media and lying politicians are fond of describing it rather than spend your time blaming the oil companies.



Government, the same government many of you vote for, takes a far bigger "windfall profit" from every gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel than oil companies. Why don't you demand that your congressmen and senators reduce or eliminate taxes on oil companies and fuels?

 

[JFaulkner]

Seems some are content to explain away our problems while continueing to let them get worse.



Suffer a little now to make it better in the future. That's what our forfathers did. Or let thing continue as status until it breaks from desperation.



I would rather try do something now than to wait until desperation sets in, desperate people do desperate things!!

What is it you think your going to do? There is NO instant answer to these high prices. Sure we could drill for our own oil but that takes a LONG time and no company is going to invest that kind of money without any guarantees that the price is going to say high enough to justify the risk. By risk I mean until recently it cost more to pump our domestic oil than it was to buy if from other countries. They just re-opened old wells in states like PA because the price elsewhere was high enough to justify it.



Unless your referring to those stupid ideas some politicians have like price fixing. Which doesn't work, just research the history of the '70's.

10% of $100,000 is one thing 10% of Billions is gougeing. Price per barrel goes up, 10 minutes later the stations are upping the price. The price of the barrel of oil turned into energy shouldn't see a price increase for a few weeks yet it goes up instantly.



Flame away, I've been called bonkers before.

Well I'm not going to call you bonkers but your not understanding your own math. 10% is 10%. Just because there are more digits in the numbers they're still only making 10% profit. As BarryG pointed out their profits margins are not high by any standards. Sure the profit numbers are high but their still only 10% of the gross sales. For example if you look at the profits of fast food restaurants. Hypothetically if McDonalds made 1 billion dollars in profit last year, so did Burger King and Wendys, which for the sake of this argument is right in line with every other fast food company and everyone's happy. Now if you merge all 3 company's together and call them McWendy's King or something stupid (i. e ExxonMobile) now everyone screams because McWendy's King made 3 billion dollars profit and they accuse them of price gouging. In reality they haven't changed anything other than the name. They're still making 10% like they did before and just like every other company in that line of work.



Commodities are always priced at replacement cost. Doesn't matter if it's fuel, lumber, grain ect. If they buy gas at $2. 00 per gallon and the price jumps to $3. 00 they have to sell it at $3. 00 because that's what it's going to cost to replace it. Also if they buy the next load at $3. 00 and the price drops to $2. 00 you have to drop yours as well or the guy down the street that did drop his price is going to take all your business. (nobody screams about that part though unless your the business owner) "competition... . Life of the trade, death of the trader"

 

[Bob Cochran]

Well after reading this for sometime will give my little bit of thought. Taking from the rich to give to the poor is socialism pure and simple and those country's as we all know that promoted and tried to institute this philosophy have fallen. Is that what you want to happen to the greatest FREE nation in the world I think not on my watch. Do we need change yes and one of those is not to allow all company's LARGE or SMALL reasonable profit. 10% is reasonable even if when you look at the dollars it is hard to get you mind around the numbers.

I heard something interesting the other day. All oil is priced using the US dollar. As the US dollar value falls in comparison to the other world currency's it takes more US dollars to purchase a barrel of oil. Being true it will help when we can get the value of the dollar back up again as it was. I have a tendency to believe this as I don't think it is a coincidence the price of a barrel of oil started to go up almost in lock step with the drop of the US dollar value in the world.

Oh I think the federal tax on oil is 18 cents per gallon. While dropping the tax this would help some not nearly as much as we all would hope. As to the government I think it was Ronald Reagan that said something like if someone shows up and says I am with the federal government and I am her to help, be very afraid.

Oh could go on and on but this debate is like talking religion there will be no clear winners. We can only hope the trucker strike will bring notice to there and our blight. I will chose to keep on my list of things to do that I have some control over. Like the weather I grumble about it but since I have no control it is off my list. I can lower the speed I drive therefore spend less for fuel this I can control.

Remember this is still the greatest nation in the world despite all its worts. While it certainly needs improvement to get back to its prominence of the past. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Okay end of my thoughts everyone you can now go on with the debate at hand.

 

[HBarlow]

The greatest problem and threat to our future that I see is not that motor fuel prices are high but that so many Americans do not understand what made our country great and are willing to destroy it from within by allowing government to deprive us of our rights and to "manage" free enterprise.



Freedom to own private property and to freely engage in any legal economic activity we choose is the source of our great and rapid progress from a tiny and fledgling new nation to the world's largest economy and military superpower in only a little over 200 years.



If we should decide to allow blow-dried empty suit politicians, many who have never had a private sector job in their sorry lives and know nothing about private enterprise or economics, to decide how much profit privately owned companies can earn and to "manage" private enterprise we are doomed to end up like the former Soviet Union and every other country that has tried socialism/communism.



Our great strength is that our constitution allows us to be all we wish to be. You or your next door neighbor or the guy working next to you in a factory can design and build a product, mass market it, and become wealthy by providing what other Americans wish to buy. He can open a small business, a dry cleaners, a plumbing company, a electrical company, or an auto repair facility and if he does a good job he can become wealthy.



I don't want government to step in and tell me, my friends, or my fellow American entrepreneurs how much they can earn.



I believe very strongly in personal freedom including personal economic freedom.



I think most of you share my views and don't realize that if the government has the power to reduce or take away the profits of oil companies it also has power to take away your income and your private property. Who should decide how much profit is enough?

 

[FLynes]

... I don't want government to step in and tell me, my friends, or my fellow American entrepreneurs how much they can earn... .



I believe very strongly in personal freedom including personal economic freedom... .

I sure as hell don't want the government interfering with ANY part of my life either, but do you not believe that we, as private citizens, have the right to take action, when someone else's prices are getting outrageous?



I'm all for American entrepreneurs making an honest buck but let's face it, between some of the not-so-honest American Big Businesses and the government, and the fact that many businesses here are no longer American, we're getting screwed royally. When my wallet starts getting hit hard, I could give a rat's flying snotball about another guy succeeding at my expense.



You're invested in Big Oil? Good on you, couldn't applaud louder, but there are some of us out there who can not afford to put our money in stocks, because we need it for daily living.



And before someone brings up me getting a second job to pay for my precious fuel, I'll cut them off at the pass by telling them that my unit command expressly forbids it.



You're right, I chose this life voluntarily and I have no regrets whatsoever about being in the military, however that DOESN'T give entrepreneurs the right to take advantage of it, period.



Greed does NOT equal honest success.

 

[HBarlow]

]]"I sure as hell don't want the government interfering with ANY part of my life either... ... ..... " [/I][/I]



You don't think anyone should have the right to interfere in your life... ... ...



"but do you not believe that we, as private citizens, have the right to take action, when someone else's prices are getting outrageous?"



but you think you or the government should have the right to interfere in the lives of millions of other citizens. Are you not able to see the hypocrisy in your own position... ... . or the dual standards you propose? "Freedom and individual rights for me, but not for those who invest in or work for oil corporations. "



What if we propose a 25% cut in active duty military pay? Everyone knows that we are spending billions of dollars a month to maintain the military and the war in Iraq and Afghanistan right? Think of the amount the rest of us could save.



It is comforting to think of "big oil" as some giant money machine owned and run by a handful of "evil rich" oil tycoons sitting around on their yachts drinking expensive imported champagne and smoking expensive Cuban cigars but that is a false image. The oil industry is made up of millions of Americans just like yourself, working for a living. There are hundreds of thousands of oil field laborers working around the clock in bad weather in very hazardous jobs to earn a weekly wage from "big oil. " There are millions of the same and other Americans, wage earners, who have invested their hard earned dollars in the stock market to prepare a nest egg for their retirement.



Those are the people you want to deprive of their possible 10% annual return on their investment?



It is easier for you to think of ripping them off when you think in terms of billions of dollars in profits. But the truth is, the oil companies sell hundreds of billions of gallons of fuel each year. They only earn a profit of approximately $0. 10, that's ten cents, per gallon sold. If you cut their profits to zero the cost of a gallon of diesel fuel witll still be $3. 90/gallon and the oil companies will shut down, sell out to Communist China, or divert their products to other markets which will buy. So what will we do for fuel then?



Many of you have your minds closed and appear unable to comprehend..... the oil companies were earning approximately 8% to 12% annual profit when crude oil from OPEC was priced at $30/barrel. They are still making the same profit when OPEC is charging $112/barrel. How is that greed on the part of the oil industry.



Can you guys spell OPEC? Can you not understand if oil has quadrupled in price at the well the price of diesel fuel has to increase also?



When Detroit/Auburn Hills increases the price of a new car or truck every year many of you think that's okay because you are labor union employees of the car industry or their component suppliers. But you blame the oil industry when their raw material increases in price and their products are more expensive.



Like I said, it is sad that so many of you don't understand what made America great and are willing to give up your and my freedom and rights for cheaper diesel fuel.



"You're invested in Big Oil?" No, I'm not.



"Greed does NOT equal honest success. "



10% interest on a CD paid by a bank is not "greed. " 10% return on a hard working American's stock portfolio is not greed and is below the historic return of the stock market. 10% annual profit on their investment by a corporation is low to moderate. It is not greed.

 

[FLynes]

HBarlow, there's no changing your mind, as there's no changing mine.



I'm getting fisted in the keister, every time I fill up. If you're not, then good for you. You can throw stats all you want, they don't mean crap to me. Money talks and right now my wallet is dead silent.



And you propose to cut my pay 25%. Tell you what, cut Military pay by that much and see if you're not speaking Arabic in a few years, because you won't have one single VOLUNTEER (that's what we are, if you didn't know) who would work for that little... we already make little as it is.



With the average American making $48,451/yr (source:US Census Bureau, 2006... 2007 isn't complete yet), you tell me that the price of fuel doesn't affect them.



And yet Iraqis are paying between $. 05 (that's five cents) and $. 15 (that's fifteen cents) per gallon. .



What I love about people like you is that when your argument becomes invalid, then next "logical" step is to insult.



I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Excessive Force]

Where's our "payback" for saving Kuwait's azz?? Still waiting... ... ... .....

 

[AClayton]

HBarlow-IF you're so confident that 'BIG OIL'is honest an trustworthy and they are doing everything under the sun to keep prices stable, then please explain to us while you got out of RV transporting. I think it was your own words that said that it got too costly for you to continue. If you feel the way you do,than you shouldn't mind paying the outageous fuel bills that we all do and start delivering again... . ie... putting money back in your pocket in the long run!!I don't want something for nothing... just like many others on this forum,what I do want is a solution to getting the economy back to where I can live with the financial freedom that I deserve and that I work hard for. I could care less if oil companies made a 10% profit as long as my paycheck shows the same increase!!It is not just the citizens that are struggling,there are large corporations that are struggling also. When oil companies are making record profits and many others are struggling across the board... . well it tells me one thing... . we ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF!!!!



Alan

 

[HBarlow]

Flynes,



Insult? Who insulted you?



Do you consider it insulting to have facts offered to dispute your position or explanations that show the weakness of your argument?



You are free to feel insulted if you choose and also to continue believing what you believe.



Nobody disputes that fuel is expensive and harder to afford than it was a year ago, that is not the argument.



The issue is blaming a huge American industry made up of a million or more Americans that provides our motor fuels and other petroleum products essential for our economy because OPEC has raised the price of crude in response to demand.

 

[JDiepstra]

Somebody please show me a good source that says big oil makes 10%.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

The open market price is above $100/bbl.



The domestic oil that Phillips/Conoco, Exxon, etc. owns and has contracts for, mixed with the price of open market crude they purchase, yields the pump prices we see.



The part that concerns me is, a new record can be set and retailers such as Pilot immediately raises their prices. The record price can retract and Pilot maintains that high price. Same with the conoco/phillips retailers around here.



As long as we buy and burn, they will price accordingly. Only way to reduce cost is to increase supply (competiveness, which has disappeared), or reduce demand.



I do believe there is collusion within the oil industry, but proving that is difficult for even our Congress. There is no way that refining costs for Conoco/Phillips and Shell/Texaco are the absolute same.