Fuel prices and how to help.

[ACoyle]

In looking at fuel prices of diesel, I have been doing some thinking.



Option one - Buy a beater car.

I can get a high mileage car for local running around. Most likely about $2,000. 00. After that comes insurance, maintenance, parking and etc. Of course there is the save $. 90 a gallon. Do I really want to do this?



If I figure that I love my Dodge and am happiest seated in the cab, I thought of:



Option 2



Purchase a gear vendors overdrive for the truck.



Does anyone have one?

Has anyone any constructive information?

Anyone heard anything bad?



It seems to me that the amount of money spent at the end would be similar. Since the truck will be paid off in 2 years, after that point diesel, even expensive diesel, will be loss costly, it yoyu get my drift.



I welcome any and all opinions.





Anyway, the math looks interesting.



400 miles at 17 MPG, with Diesel at $4. 19 costs $98. 59

400 Mises at 20. 4 MPG with diesel costing $4. 19 costs $82. 16

Savings would be about $16. 43 per fillup. They claim a 20% increase in milage, however, some have seen more.

 

[DavidC]

The best way is to take all the speculators in the commodity market that are driving the oil prices up and line them up at a wall. A little lead poisining can go a long way.

Sorry, but the greed these people have is beginning to annoy me.



Dave

 

[MrBee]

Product quality, tops. I had a GV on my 99 F250SD for over 200K miles and never opened it up. I gained about 3 miles per gallon... You may want to consider a cam... they are wort 2 mpg and only cost 12-1500 installed... less investment =even quicker

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Product quality, tops. I had a GV on my 99 F250SD for over 200K miles and never opened it up. I gained about 3 miles per gallon... You may want to consider a cam... they are wort 2 mpg and only cost 12-1500 installed... less investment =even quicker

I had the US Gear unit in my '91 - 22% O/D as I recall - and while it DID lower engine RPM at freeway speeds, and added 15 MPH to the top end, it had NO benefit as to MPG, I suppose the engine was turning slower, but working harder, and it all evened out as far as economy was concerned...

 

[Regcabguy]

My buddy had a GV installed on his '07 G-56. Hywy. mileage went from 15 to 19. 1. For $4,000 installed,it's going to take forever to pay for itself.

 

[ACoyle]

I had the US Gear unit in my '91 - 22% O/D as I recall - and while it DID lower engine RPM at freeway speeds, and added 15 MPH to the top end, it had NO benefit as to MPG, I suppose the engine was turning slower, but working harder, and it all evened out as far as economy was concerned...

Gary - Any idea how that could happen? I thought about lower RPM and milage, the raw math says that it has to increase MPG, unless more fuel is required to maintain speed at the lower RPM, which gices rise to the whole "Sweet Spot" thing. I certainly would not doubt your numbers, just trying to understand why.



They are claiming about 20% and saying that som ehave seen 25%. The onky thing that I would worry about with a beater car is it some thing blows up all the savings are gone. Of course, at $3,500 to $4,000 it certainly would take a long time to break even. All this math could be a really great spreadsheet and I do love spreadsheets.



Thank everyone for input so far and I would certainly like any other.



AC

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary - Any idea how that could happen? I thought about lower RPM and milage, the raw math says that it has to increase MPG, unless more fuel is required to maintain speed at the lower RPM, which gices rise to the whole "Sweet Spot" thing. I certainly would not doubt your numbers, just trying to understand why.



They are claiming about 20% and saying that som ehave seen 25%. The onky thing that I would worry about with a beater car is it some thing blows up all the savings are gone. Of course, at $3,500 to $4,000 it certainly would take a long time to break even. All this math could be a really great spreadsheet and I do love spreadsheets.



Thank everyone for input so far and I would certainly like any other.



AC

Andy, the '91 may not be a fair yardstick - they came stock with a 3. 07 ratio differential, and adding another 22% to that is a pretty steep load - the engines in the 1st genny trucks were governed at 2500 RPM, so that was the reason for the steep differential gearing and low vehicle speed.



Still, adding an O/D is money you'd not ever see again as far as the cost of the box is concerned, while a $2000 econobox WILL get some of it's cost back if not seriously abused or neglected.

 

[ACoyle]

Both are good points Gary. I spoke with GV today and they are telling me that the unit can adapt to most any truck and therefore I could move it. Of course, if I want to.



BajaBob's point is also gremaine. It would take a long time to break even. This is true with both solutions. All the beater car would have to do is need a head or something and I'm in trouble.



Right now, I am going 1. 4 miles to a train to get to work. I am also thinking of a bicycle.



I heard today that some analysts are expecting an oil price crash. I really don't think it will help if it happens. We are still paying less than the world price for oil and oil prices are no longer supply and demand driven.

 

[BHolm]

I think with a 3. 73 geared auto truck you are already close to the sweet spot for power/mpg. If you drop cruise rpm down to 1400 or so I don't think you will pick up the mpg you are hoping for. I know it would be a huge help on my G56 truck because it is way out of the 1800 rpm sweet spot unless you keep it at 60 mph or less.



For $2000 you can purchase a bio diesel plant for your garage and crank out a couple tanks of fuel a week for cheap. I means going through the hassle of sourcing waste oil but thats just another reason to drive the truck in my book Even if it ends up costing $1-1. 50 a gallon, the savings will pay for the investment much more quickly than either of your other two options.

 

[ACoyle]

BHolm -

Are you doing this?

If so what is the source for the plant?

How are you sourcing the materials?

Are there expendables involved?



Thank You



AC

 

[Coalsmoke]

I'm a big Bio-diesel supporter, but I have come to discover that there are a few realities to consider that perhaps sometimes get overlooked in the hype of cheaper fuel. Now, these are all my personal opinion, YMMV. That said, Bio-diesel is:

- a great alternative fuel

- not free but considerably cheap once you figure out what you're doing

- not for those that do not have good attention to detail

- requires an investment in time as well as money, so it works better if you have a regular / routine lifestyle vs one that is always up in the air

- may require special support considerations at the manufacturing site, Ie. don't void your house insurance because the barn next to the house with the bio-setup in it caught fire. Get properly checked out with state / local authorities in terms of storing the fuel, methanol / ethanol used in the process, and the chemicals.

- lastly, it is not for the faint of heart, as if you were careless and put a bad batch in your truck, it could be a hard and expensive lesson to learn.



So, Bio-diesel is one of those things that if you want to become a bit of a bio-diesel fuel enthusiast you should be fine, but if you're just looking for a fast and easy way out of higher fuel prices and don't want to invest the time, then maybe look at other alternatives.

Gary - Any idea how that could happen? I thought about lower RPM and milage, the raw math says that it has to increase MPG, unless more fuel is required to maintain speed at the lower RPM, which gices rise to the whole "Sweet Spot" thing. I certainly would not doubt your numbers, just trying to understand why.



They are claiming about 20% and saying that som ehave seen 25%. The onky thing that I would worry about with a beater car is it some thing blows up all the savings are gone. Of course, at $3,500 to $4,000 it certainly would take a long time to break even. All this math could be a really great spreadsheet and I do love spreadsheets.



Thank everyone for input so far and I would certainly like any other.



AC

Gary is correct. I think we often don't see it so much on our smaller trucks because objectively speaking, they have overly large engines for the task at hand and are therefore much more forgiving (at least in the 03 and up higher horsepower models), but take a larger diesel engine and place it in too high of a load application and under its rated rpm/load HP requirement and you can burn more fuel than if it was turning faster and essentially not "working" harder, although technically that is a misnomer as work is a progress based, that is it is a function of what is achieved. At the end of the day the work is still done all the same, but more fuel can be burned if operating out of the optimum rpm settings. For example, on our new ISBs, I believe the optimum rated RPM for full load and maximum efficiency as rated by Cummins is 2050RPM or there abouts. I've forgotten the exact numbers and gear set modeled. Where we get ourselves as a consumer base into issues is our appetite for power, that is getting the work done faster. The work still is done all the same, but a decrease in time equals an increase in speed which translate into a higher transfer of energy which has to come from somewhere, in this case burning more diesel fuel.

 

[BHolm]

BHolm -

Are you doing this?

If so what is the source for the plant?

How are you sourcing the materials?

Are there expendables involved?



Thank You



AC

I am still in the planning stages. There are several "pre-engineered" sources for the plants on the web. I found one that offers a detailed "how too" book as well. Some look to be better designed than others and they are availible in various sizes.



Coalsmoke is right, the last thing I want to do is harm the truck, so I am being fairly dilligent as to exactly what I need, and how/where I am going to do this.



One thing is for sure, I can afford some time to do this right. Or I will make the time and put in the effort as $5/gal fuel is coming soon, way too soon, and I do not know how I can afford to drive with prices like that.

 

[AClayton]

Both are good points Gary. I spoke with GV today and they are telling me that the unit can adapt to most any truck and therefore I could move it. Of course, if I want to.



BajaBob's point is also gremaine. It would take a long time to break even. This is true with both solutions. All the beater car would have to do is need a head or something and I'm in trouble.



Right now, I am going 1. 4 miles to a train to get to work. I am also thinking of a bicycle.



I heard today that some analysts are expecting an oil price crash. I really don't think it will help if it happens. We are still paying less than the world price for oil and oil prices are no longer supply and demand driven.

You hit the nail on the head..... 1. 4 miles of a commute is hard on any vehicle but on a diesel engine it is downright horrible!I would get a bicycle or just walk and say to H@#& with fuel prices. I ride my bike to work now and walk my children to daycare and save $75. 00 a week in fuel. I actually feel alot better physically and sleep better at night ... . maybe I was a little out of shape!Now if I could find a way to weld a hitch on my bike,I could tow our RV around also and gain additional savings.

HBarlow has preached to us all about not letting fuel prices eat at us and continue with our lives but this is just plain ridiculous!This is not A SUPPLY AND DEMAND thing any longer,I still think it is greed.





Alan

 

[Coalsmoke]

It is corporate inflation at its worst, as the US is in a tight spot. It's not so much that there is a lack of oil and the oil prices are thus driven up, that's a false inflation given the reality of the oil reserves throughout north america. Reality is that we could be getting fuel a lot cheaper if it wasn't tied into the national borrowing schemes. Unfortunately if the US produced their own fuel (and they have a fair bit of it to produce as do we), the national debt would no longer keep on 'floating' and the economy would take a serious hit. Some feel that it might be better to just take the economic crash already and get rid of this false economy. Me, I'm not so sure, but there's definitely more to it than just a supply shortage of oil. I hear Mexico is at $2 something a Gallon.

 

[Motorhead]

The best way is to take all the speculators in the commodity market that are driving the oil prices up and line them up at a wall. A little lead poisining can go a long way.
Sorry, but the greed these people have is beginning to annoy me.

Dave

AMEN BROTHER!!! Get those selfish, greedy b*****ds and line them up against a wall and ... ... . Well you know!!!

 

[ACoyle]

SO, I guess this is as far as we know. While Biodiesel "can" be a player, I haven't seen anyone doing it on a regular basis with good results. Bio guys please correct me, but, does it not have more gell porblems in the winter? There is a fair amount of personal work involved. I don't mean to be pickey, but, if you assign a dollar value to your time, it may not be cost savings. I'm not an expert, but if we are talking about processing excess fryer oil into fuel, there is only so much of it and the more of us that do it the less per person is available.



That leaves me with the GV, the beater or the bike. The bike is still a solution for the train, not a lot else.



Still thinking.

 

[RRees]

It's kind of ironic. China is getting more automobiles, and we're thinking of riding bikes.

 

[JBallou]

I did what some would call abnormal, removed the 35" tires and went back to the OEM size. Traded the tires and rims for new OEM sized and got some decent cash out of it.



Removed the leveling kit as well. Picked up 1. 5 mpg on the first tank. Calibrated the speedo as well.



We will see how much it helps the overall trend. So far positive.



Good luck in you quest.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's kind of ironic. China is getting more automobiles, and we're thinking of riding bikes.

YUP, exactly what the well-heeled and powerful Liberals in Hollywood and Washington DC have been steering us to for years...



And it ain't over YET!

 

[K5IP]

One thing is for sure, I can afford some time to do this right. Or I will make the time and put in the effort as $5/gal fuel is coming soon, way too soon, and I do not know how I can afford to drive with prices like that. [/QUOTE]



$5. 00 gal fuel isn't just comming soon, it is almost here in Hawaii.

Deisel now costs about $175 for a tank full. We lead the mainland in price by about a month.

Rog