Allison 6 spd conversions for Dodge Trucks

[cerberusiam]

Is the Ally physically larger? Yup. Are planetary gear-sets better? Yup. Does it prove to be better in the real world?

Planetaries are larger, aluminum housing and 4 pinions. Hmmm, I think we pretty much figured out 6 pinions and a steel cage is a must for high TQ applications, either that or managed it correctly.



The clutch packs are 3 and maybe 4 disk. More surface area but if it can't get applied correctly or tight enough it doesn't matter.



The bigger-is-better ideas get tossed when physics comes into play. Its all about leverage and thats what usual kills the trans.



We seldom trash hard parts in a 48RE unless the power levels get really high and it is unmanaged. The 48RE needs 1 or 2 small tweaks to handle 500 HP and they are easy to do. The Ally needs quite a bit more retrofitting to handle the power and not eat itself up. It can be done but it is costly.



As has been posted, real world performance is what counts and thats where simplicity is winning out.

 

[TFucili]

My Chevy was bone-stock, and developed serious issues with 1,200 miles. Nobody, including some wizard who "Gimmick Motors" flew in to sprinkle pixie dust on it, could make it right. It took me a year, but I managed to insert a 2500HD crew cab straight up their corporate backside.



Is the Ally physically larger? Yup. Are planetary gear-sets better? Yup. Does it prove to be better in the real world? Nope. I have owned three GM vehicles, and all of them were trash.

Planetaries are larger, aluminum housing and 4 pinions. Hmmm, I think we pretty much figured out 6 pinions and a steel cage is a must for high TQ applications, either that or managed it correctly.



The clutch packs are 3 and maybe 4 disk. More surface area but if it can't get applied correctly or tight enough it doesn't matter.



The bigger-is-better ideas get tossed when physics comes into play. Its all about leverage and thats what usual kills the trans.



We seldom trash hard parts in a 48RE unless the power levels get really high and it is unmanaged. The 48RE needs 1 or 2 small tweaks to handle 500 HP and they are easy to do. The Ally needs quite a bit more retrofitting to handle the power and not eat itself up. It can be done but it is costly.



As has been posted, real world performance is what counts and thats where simplicity is winning out.

You are aware that I was agreeing with you, right?

 

[BHolm]

Where are you gettting your info????? .

Ummmm..... My real world experience serves me better than most "info" you are likely to provide. I owned two of them, niether was up to the task easily handled by both a 4r100 and the 48re. That is really pathetic if you ask me.



Maybe next you can tell us how great the d-max is. Which version is it that can't pull a load without overheating? The LLY? The video was posted here not too long ago, the one with the second gen pulling a bigger load than the D/A walking away on hills while the D/A overheated and lost ground.



Yep, thats the kind of engineering I would want in my truck



Since the idea was to spend a bunch of money, mine would be spent on a built 48re. That or just buy a manual to begin with, another place where GM couldn't get it right. How about some ZF conversion talk:-laf

 

[cerberusiam]

You are aware that I was agreeing with you, right?

Yep, and I was echoing your sentiments with just a little more info.





The other obvious thing that is ignored is the parasitic loss with these "bigger" components. Not sure what it is on the smaller Allys but the bigger ones do put a drag on things, up around 100 HP. That would be a considerable hit to take on 300-350 HP motor, not so noticeable on a 500 HP one.



I suspect the 1000 has to be in that 10-15% range like the 48RE otherwise it just would not perform adequately under the best circumstances. If things are so much bigger then they must be lighter to offset the size. That leads right back down the road of leverage and tensile strenth to resist the breakage. While there are compounds possible of be made light and strong the cost factor would quickly make them infeasible.



Is it any wonder the engine power as well as the trans needs to be managed CORRECTLY?

 

[mgoncalves]

I'll get in on the ally bashing. I preferred the 48RE in my 06 hands down over the six speed allison in my Chevy, especially for towing. I absolutely hate when trying to pass someone on the highway with my chevy when I floor it there is a good 3 second delay while the trans shifts down, instead of letting the engine work.

 

[KHaines]

Simple transgo shift kit & a convertor & it can easily hold 500 RWHP.

We seldom trash hard parts in a 48RE unless the power levels get really high and it is unmanaged. The 48RE needs 1 or 2 small tweaks to handle 500 HP and they are easy to do. The Ally needs quite a bit more retrofitting to handle the power and not eat itself up. It can be done but it is costly.



As has been posted, real world performance is what counts and thats where simplicity is winning out.

 

[KHaines]

Have you ever handled a allison & 48re? Which is heavier? This bigger is better is right from this board. Where are all those posts of connecting rods. The connecting rod pics are misleading because a cummins only needs 6 while a powerstoke or dmax need 8 to do the same anout of work, therefor the load is spread out over more rods.



Has anyone given Gorends a call yet?



Just because there have been some bad allisons dosn't mean they are all junk.



I just thought of another play from the cummins is best playbook. The Allison was designed from the begine for heavyduty use as a truck trans while the dodge trans are converted gas/car transmissions.



Why is it that the Asian transmission copied the Allison? Is it because they recognize a good thing when they see it. Isn't Allison suing because of patent rights?

If things are so much bigger then they must be lighter to offset the size. That leads right back down the road of leverage and tensile strenth to resist the breakage. While there are compounds possible of be made light and strong the cost factor would quickly make them infeasible.

QUOTE]

 

[BHolm]

Have you ever handled a allison & 48re? Which is heavier? This bigger is better is right from this board. Where are all those posts of connecting rods. The connecting rod pics are misleading because a cummins only needs 6 while a powerstoke or dmax need 8 to do the same anout of work, therefor the load is spread out over more rods.

Is there seriously any question as to which is the more durable engine design?

Has anyone given Gorends a call yet?

In order to get one more OPINION?

Just because there have been some bad allisons dosn't mean they are all junk.

My opinon based on using a couple of them is that they simply do not work well. I was able to directly compare them to other brands, my opinion is that they aren't that great, maybe not all junk but definately not for me.

I just thought of another play from the cummins is best playbook. The Allison was designed from the begine for heavyduty use as a truck trans while the dodge trans are converted gas/car transmissions.

Fact is, it may have been designed that way but it simply doesn't work like a HD transmission. I had an Allison engineer come and ride with me, in my Chevy with a malfunctioning Alli. They tried to come up with a software fix for it. It never performed as well as the antiquated 4r100 or 48re transmissions on the same job. Good design, good intentions, whatever, they just didn't work for me, and lots of others. I am failing to see how this makes the Allison a better transmission?

Why is it that the Asian transmission copied the Allison? Is it because they recognize a good thing when they see it. Isn't Allison suing because of patent rights?

If things are so much bigger then they must be lighter to offset the size. That leads right back down the road of leverage and tensile strenth to resist the breakage. While there are compounds possible of be made light and strong the cost factor would quickly make them infeasible.

QUOTE]

Hopefully they corrected the problems with the re-design. I haven't heard any complaints yet. Of course I have switched to manual transmissions since moving to the mountains. I just prefer full control and a direct link in every gear.



It is definately an agree to disagree situation. You will NEVER convince those of us who have had bad experiences with the Allison that somehow because the design is newer or the transmission bigger and heavier, that it is better. That simply wasn't my experience, and I was fool enough to try the Allison twice. I was burned both times and have owned 4 trucks ith the 48re, all served me very well. There just isn't a whole lot more to say is there?

 

[KHaines]

In your mind and many others there is no question which is the better designed engine. I agree with you on engines, evan though I am a big GM fan. Keep in mind that the same arguments for the Cummins engine are also great arguments for the Allison. I have not owned a dmax, but I currently drive a 5. 7 diesel(3rd 5. 7 car), 95 powerstoke, & 97 cummins(in a Chevy). I have owned several 6. 5's & 6. 2's. I am open minded & thats why I have a powerstroke. I gave my family a stroke when I bought it. Most people that trash the Allison have not been open minded to actual own or drive one.



As a mechanic, I like the dodge transmission, they have been good to me. They have made me alot of money. I never have had to replace an Allison.



I get tired of people trashing other products because of blind brand loalty.

Is there seriously any question as to which is the more durable engine design?



It is definately an agree to disagree situation. You will NEVER convince those of us who have had bad experiences with the Allison that somehow because the design is newer or the transmission bigger and heavier, that it is better. That simply wasn't my experience, and I was fool enough to try the Allison twice. I was burned both times and have owned 4 trucks ith the 48re, all served me very well. There just isn't a whole lot more to say is there?

 

[KHaines]

I thought this thread was about having a alternative to the dodge transmission rather than to bash the Allison. Can't we get back on topic.



I talked with destroked & they said that right now they can only do the 5 speed. They are working on the 6 speed. Sun Coast, ATS, & others all tried working on something but have not been able to get it to work. I never talked to Sun Coast, but I called ATS & they told me it is to hard to figure out the computer controls. There is a guy in one of the other forums that has something, but I understand it may not be total legal(possible stolen software from Allison).



I am working on putting an Allison in my truck. It won't be done for a couple months. I am using destroked for the adaptors. I will probably also use them for the computer, unless there is another good option.

Has anyone else been lured in by this false statement that was part of Sun Coast Advertising? After not finding anything on their website to substantiate this offering I called them. They stated that they were working on a proto type but it was far from ready for public consumption..... So this begs the question why advertise it? Issue 55 of the TDR ran this ad from Suncoast on page 27. I hear great things about the Sun Coast company and their products, but come on! This is just simply false advertising in my eyes. Like many other Dodge diesel truck owners I would jump at the chance to have the allison transmission as a drivetrain component. Anyone else have a comment about this?

 

[cerberusiam]

I thought this thread was about having a alternative to the dodge transmission rather than to bash the Allison. Can't we get back on topic.

I thought thats what we were doing, discussing the PROS and CONS of a conversion?



Are you saying we should ignore the preponderence of negative experiences and only concentrate on happy stuff? C'mon!!! You gotta take the bad with the good if you want a decent discussion.



I have considered this exact thing for at least 5 years and every time I research it I DO NOT get a warm fuzzy feeling it will work. I wouldn't mind gropping $7k to do this if THERE WAS A GUARANTEE IT WOULD WORK. There get to be so many road blocks and unknowns that after a bit I just drop it.



In addition it is extremely tough to nail down the needed info. They talk a good fight until one gets down to the nitty griitty technicals aspects and they bail, or, they refuse to discuss any meaningful info. What would you expect most people to think at that point?



As a reasonable option, it just ain't a good one yet. We KNOW how to build 48RE's and what they will take. The Ally is still an unknown quantity with a less than stellar track record and a very limited selection of pieces to address the known issues. If you want to R&D, go for it. My 47's and 48's will do anything I need and rack hundreds of thousands of miles doing so. Until there is a better proven option, its all speculation based on rumors.

 

[Paddy McMahon]

Wow. All this conversation makes me just miss the granny gear in my old 91. 5 with the gertrag manual transmission. when I had chains on all four it would crawl up anything. I have simply been discouraged by the lack of throttle response, compression braking and ability to crawl (idle) over rocks and through snow without having to apply at least 1600rpm to my 48RE. In 4 low my current truck is embarrassing when I need to crawl down a steep hill. I have to cover the brake to keep from gaining speed. I have driven my cousins Chevy/Allison in the same situation and it does not free wheel. The truck stays locked up, slow, and in control. That is all I am looking for. Given all I have heard including the transmission shops my expectations for the compression braking with an automatic transmission are unrealistic. I just can't see taking the $$ hit to get a different truck with a manual transmission. I really love everything else about the truck.