Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Reloading

[mrsnow]

Thanks guys.

 

[GCroyle]

Made up first 3 batches of . 223 with all new components, Varget, CCI, Hornady and Winchester brass, test next week along with some '06 I loaded with Hornady SST. I like the challenge.

 

[GCroyle]

Powder "Type" Preference.

We all want accuracy and I have been in on enough listening sides of this discussion with my neighbor, sometimes ya gotta pull the trigger and look at the group size, can't talk forever about what it might do.



OK, now the question. What are your preferences between extruded powder vs. ball powder when it comes to grain weight consistency with a powder thrower? Seems like I crunch a strand every so often and interested in your experiences with this question. If you control the variables to the best of your abilities, should get better results. My buddies in TN seemed to really like a certain extruded powder.

 

[GHarman]

I have used a Lyman 55 Powder Measure for many years. I have crunched a few grains in my time. I weigh every charge I measure. Pretty Picky, Huh? While Ball powders meter very consistantly, they are not always the best choice for every application. A 0. 1Gr. variance is no big deal in a large capacity case. But it really is, in something like a . 223 or a 17 Fireball. A smaller capacity case or a load that is pushing the edges of sanity:-laf requires that extra measure of safety by weighing your charges. IMHO. If I was loading several hundred rounds for an AR, caliber . 223 on a progressive press such as a Dillon, with accuracy as a secondary consideration, I would definitely opt for the best metering powder for that application. I would still weigh a controlled sample every 5 rounds. I would have concentricity of the loaded round, prepped primer pockets, flash holes and overall length of the case on my check/to do list. BTW, here is a link that may give more specifics to many of your questions. Always check more than one, up-to-date reloading manual for loading data. Greg



exterior ballistics

 

[GCroyle]

The voice of experience is speaking, I'm listening.



OK Greg, . 223 in a progressive press, ball or extruded, looks like ball wins in progressive but extruded has performance features from what I have found so far. Same question for 30-06, bigger case = slightly less sensitive to volume, 0. 1Gr etc. ?



I gotta go try this stuff this weekend, trigger finger getting itchy. I got some 100 yd. NRA repair center targets that need new holes put in them.



Thanks Greg.

 

[The patriot]

I've got an old Lyman 55 with the Harnell (sp?) conversion on it. Trick setup.

 

[GHarman]

The voice of experience is speaking, I'm listening.



OK Greg, . 223 in a progressive press, ball or extruded, looks like ball wins in progressive but extruded has performance features from what I have found so far. Same question for 30-06, bigger case = slightly less sensitive to volume, 0. 1Gr etc. ?



I gotta go try this stuff this weekend, trigger finger getting itchy. I got some 100 yd. NRA repair center targets that need new holes put in them.



Thanks Greg.

Gary, Dont forget the Short Cut and Super Short Cut extruded powders! They can meter quite well, also. Dont limit the potential of your rifle by settling on just one powder before you try a few variations. Bullet weight, throat depth/overall length/magazine length are some of the limits. But "tuning" your rifle with handloads is like tuning a bell/tuning fork at different frequencys. Your rifle barrel is a periodic wave (laws of Physics). The muzzle must be at the same position, in space, when the bullet exits for extreme accuracy(simplified version). That is the NODE! If you flip back and forth between node and antinode at the muzzle you will have a pattern, not a group. Variations in the pressure/time curve, bullet jump into the lands, loose receiver bolts are all variables that cause different frequencies. There are many other things that enter into the accuracy/precision shooting game. This is just the basics.



Patriot, That is a slick modification to the Lyman 55 measure. GregH

 

[crobertson1]

This is GREAT info. I'm just starting to try to figure out what equipment to purchase. It'll be a little at a time for sure. The press is obviously the biggest piece. Once I get going, it'll be mainly for . 223 for some hungry FPGs (secret code for ARs).

 

[GCroyle]

Handload Range Report

I'm still a newbie at reloading, but the initial results are looking good. My neighbor Bryan and I went to the local range last weekend and he started to break in and get his new . 300 WSM on paper, did good, most within a baseball. I shot my RR AR15 at 10 yds tried to do a nice prone group, iron sights, kinda like practice for a XTC match, no artificial rests, 6 shots, 60/4X SR-1C. I'm out of practice.



Now, the old Redfield Scoped 1903 Sporter came out, Hornady SST 165Gr. A couple of years back, I put 3 in 1 at 100 yds, benched, with Remington. This time handloaded (off the bench ain't my favorite) 3 in about 2 1/2", not exactly bragging grade. Now I let Bryan shoot three, I wouldn't let him look through the spotting scope, made him go down and look at it. The old lead point is just for reference, SST's made the hole.



Nice shooting Bryan! Darn good newbie loads if I don't say so.



Last time I let him shoot my piece!!!!!!!

 

[GCroyle]

Greg,



I checked the EXterior Ballistics website you linked, this will take a while to read, looks good, thanks.

 

[GHarman]

Gary, Looks like you are on yer way! Dont let the youngin's show you up:-laf. More practice. GregH

 

[GCroyle]

Greg, it will be time for a rematch that's for sure, but Bryan has a BUNCH of nice SC mounts in his man cave, he puts them on the ground!



Greg,



In reading the Exterior Ballistics section on Service Rifle reloading, that was some interesting stuff and it points out the differences between bolt gun reloads vs. Service Rifle work.



Q. are you a fan of the RCBS Case Mic system, or is that just more money spent on not much?



Sorta looks like it has some true merit, not just bullet nose wax.

 

[GHarman]

Gary, I am not familiar with that RCBS product. I normally neck size only. Full length sizing is reserved for new brass and brass for handguns and Autoloading rifles. My procedure for Full Length sizing is to screw the die into the press all the way, with the ram at full stroke. The die will bottom out on the shell holder. Then I unscrew the die about one turn to prevent setting shoulders back. Then I lube a case and insert it into the shell holder and operate the press handle till the case is entirely in the die. THEN I tighten the lock ring on the die.

I use a vernier caliper to measure case lengths and various micrometers to measure case pressure ring diameters and neck wall thicknesses. GregH

 

[GCroyle]

Greg,



You possibly explained why you might not have much use for the gage, your YEARS of EXPERIENCE. You are probally doing a similar inspection with your techniques. Autoloaders was the biggest focus of the tool. I don't have the copy here, but it was recommended as a take a close look at it in order to get good resizing and make sure rounds chamber in the autoloader function. Bolts give you a feel for what is happening, autoloaders just do their job and an out of battery fire, well, once would be enough, hence the emphasis on correct full length sizing, use the gage to compare a fired from that chamber round to your resized stuff, at least that is what I'm remembering right now.



Lots to learn.

 

[GHarman]

Gary, Some Autoloaders require a small base sizing die for the case to be able to rechamber after it has been fired. Use of slower burning powders and higher than recommended chamber pressures can make a case expand from residual pressure, during extraction. M-1's are finicky about this. Check your full length resized/fired brass in your rifle before reloading. If it is to tight, you will have to use a small base sizing die. I have not had to do this. But, I am loading ammo for target shooting. Cases were clean and a snug fit. GregH

 

[GCroyle]

Greg,



I have not tried one of my handloads in the M1's yet, next range trip I'll check the stripping/loading force and see how it feels, then compare to LC GI M2.



The Case Mic has my interest, no decisions yet.

 

[GCroyle]

My RCBS case mics arrived yesterday. Took a quick look last night. Measures from bolt face to leade with a compressible gage, then you take the compressible sliding gage (resembles a 3 piece fake cartridge, base stem and nose) and measure from bolt face to beginning of leade. The other function is to measure from bolt face to the headspace datum point. You compare fired (from that gun) cases to new and your resized work.



Should be interesting, NO DATA OR CONCLUSIONS YET!

 

[crobertson1]

I bought a Dillon RL550B. That's it so far.

 

[p-Bar]

I bought a Dillon RL550B. That's it so far.

You will like it . I own a 650 and crank out the rounds

 

[cksh8me]

There is some good info on this post. I would recommend you guys try Brian Enos - Shooting Books, Slide-Glide, Reloading Equipment and go to the reloading section in the forums. Plus they have deals on reloading equipment. Some of the top action shooters post up loads, how toos, good and bad and why.