FED UP with fuel prices?

[Gary - K7GLD]

well, i can see from the posts that i am in the minority here... for one i am not uninformed... go read the voting histories of the prospective candidates... they are all over the web from several unbiased sources.

Mike, you are NOT alone - but as energy related issues have become common, 2 basic facts have become VERY evident:



1. Those well enough off to NOT yet be touched severely by current economic conditions, are entirely willing and eager to place the lion's share of blame for the economic difficulties and business failures on the VICTIMS, rather than those creating the suffering - just a different version of the rapist blaming the victim for her abuse - because "she ASKED for it, and deserved what she got"...



These folks, often by reason of better backgrounds, provision of better education - and most often, pure blind LUCK, constantly exude and display a cavalier disdain for those lower on the economic ladder - and, frankly, have neither concern or pity for those less fortunate - and can only ease their own marginal consciences by steadily reassuring themselves that those folks brought their situation upon themselves, and fully DESERVE what they are getting.



What those "smarties" are too blind and uncaring to realize, is that when those on the lower rungs of our economic ladder DO fail, and collapse - they take the lower portions of that ladder WITH them, creating the ultimate lowering or total collapse of all that economic "ladder" up above them - INCLUDING that portion now occupied by the unsympathetic and uncaring - and yeah, THEY will also "get what they deserve" when that happens...



2. Regardless of efforts and attempts to reverse our energy situation, regardless of WHERE we drill, and what other alternative fuel sources become available, NONE of those efforts or sources will create a meaningful reduction in fuel costs - any more than the availability of alternate fuels such as Ethanol or Bio fuels has made THEM more economical in comparison to normal gas or diesel - THEIR costs have risen just as much, and as fast as traditional fuels from traditional sources.



We're being had, and will CONTINUE to be had, by the SAME people as those now at the controls - as the game changes they - or others just like them, change as well. They know full well, what traffic will bear - how far they can safely push us, and will continue to do so, regardless of the exact "tool" needed to get the job done.



The supporters of abusive, runaway Capitalism and "free enterprise", have steadily ridiculed those suffering under the existing system - and steadily shout "supply and demand" - yet demand steadily decreases, as cost rises even faster - they continue to say things will eventually get better, even as they constantly get worse - and if/when things DO get better - which I doubt - who will be left to benefit from it?



.

 

[Dieselnut59]

DHayden, JesseJ, HBarlow, I am on YOUR side, unfortunately, there are very few POLITICIANS who are!!
MJaynes, I agree with many of your thoughts and your hard work and common sense spending is to be commended. As a "rich" co-owner of family business, I HATE the term "less fortunate" though. That just insinuates that those of us who have worked hard, made the right decisions and are totally self sufficient are just "fortunate" or "lucky" and those who are not "fortunate" are just that way because they were not "lucky"... Nevermind that (unlike you) they overspent on house and vehicles, had children they could not afford, did not take advantage of education opportunities or just did not work hard, only doing enough to "get by". Like has been mentioned before, you are exceptional in your party. Too many Democrats want to tax the HELL out of the business owners and corporations and they have the "tax anyone but me" attitude but are also the ones who most use the government services.
DHayden, your example of taxation was used in Neal Boortz's book "The FairTax Book" to explain to the average citizen how the current system works. The Fair Tax is what we NEED in this country.
One of my FAVORITE Conservative talk show hosts is Herman Cain. He came from NOTHING, living in government housing to being highly successful and owning Godfather's Pizza, ALL while not having some of the opportunities which are available to Black Americans now. Read about him at Herman Cain: T*H*E New Voice and see for yourself. He has a nightly show on WSB750 in Atlanta, Neal Boortz's home base.
I do not feel that I am "higher or mightier" than anyone else, but I am proud of the results of my hard work and wise decisions. I do not want to be disproportionately "punished" for my hard work while someone that refuses to work hard enough to support their lifestyle (or not work at all) is "rewarded" for their bad decisions or just pure laziness.
It is a long proven fact: If you REWARD the kind of behavior you do not want, you get MORE of that such behavior. If you PUNISH behavior you DO want, you get less of that such behavior. Our tax system does just that and it MUST change before those of us who DO are unable or willing to keep "providing". I am SICK of "wealth envy"!

 

[HBarlow]

MJaynes



Mike,



I did not mean for you to take my comment that you are uninformed as an insult. If you felt insulted, please accept my sincere apology.



I admire hardworking Americans like you who work, save, run a small business, live within their means, and live by a code of moral ethics. It is clear that you are a patriotic American who loves his country, our country, and are not like many millions who are democrat voters who hate our country.



My point was that the leaders of the democrat party, the folks you claim and apparently vote for, are not like you, do not have the same values as you do, and are lying to you and deceiving you to get your vote. You and a couple million other hard working Americans who see themselves as democrats are misinformed if you believe they represent your interests. They do not. They are liberal socialists. You are a conservative from the values you express here. In the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, into the early 1960s your values would have made you a democrat. All of my ancestors were democrats then as well. Sadly, that party is gone. It was highjacked by the liberal socialists who want to tax every productive American until he bleeds in order to buy the votes of the non-productive.



I am a conservative, not a Republican although I have voted Republican for many years. If we ever met you would find that we share many values. I know and understand West Virginia. In my previous (less fortunate) life I was married(?) to a woman from OH just across the river from Huntington. I have known lots shipmates in the Navy from WV. I have visited WV many times. My grandson was the first general manager of a new SAM's Club store in Beckley and I attended his grand opening several years ago. He still lives there and I have visited several times.



I was interrupted and had to stop and have returned to the keyboard.



It is unfortunate that lowskilled industries like textile mills have left WV but it is an economic reality. It has happened because labor unions have driven the cost of labor higher than companies can afford when competing with Communist Chinese and other Asian labor in order to sell their products at a profit. Government cannot fix it regardless how many lying politicians get your vote by promising to fix it. That senile and corrupt old fool Robert Byrd has been your senator for 200 years. He hasn't fixed it yet, has he? Only the private market can fix it. The only solution is to relocate where jobs are plentiful or, as you apparently did, create your own job.



Back in the early years of the 20th century there was a thriving market for buggies, horse tack, buggy whips, etc. Those Americans who provided those products had good jobs. The jobs were lost when the automobile came along. Government could have subsidized buggy manufacturers and continued paying citizens to build buggies but there was no market for them. People had to relocate to other cities and retrain in new jobs to find new employment. That is what the citizenry of WV will have to do. It is sad but a reality. WV has been a very poor state with few jobs as long as I can remember and it will likely remain that way.



Textile mills have moved where labor is cheapest which means most efficient. The free market has determined that would happen. Every industry is temporary. Temporary may mean a period of 100 years, 50 years, or only five years but the free market marches on producing new products, new jobs, and, as a byproduct, some displaced employees. Free market evolution makes and keeps us efficient. We must all adapt with change.

 

[MJaynes]

thanks for all the comments(even though i dont believe them all)... for the record i am in the mtns. of n. c. not w. va... (where we also hunt ,fish and enjoy a 1000 yard egg shoot from time to time-even granny likes to shoot). however, my brother lives close to w. va in harrisonburg va. (he is a professior at james madison)... . at any rate,

hope all the fathers get to spend some time with their kids today... God bless,mike

p. s. gary,i am a ham as well... got my know code general in 2001(even if it was only 5wpm)then decided to try for extra earlier this year, which i now am. mike

 

[JesseJ]

I echo Mike, enjoy time with your father, whether you get along or not, at least give him a call. I don't have that privilege, cancer took my father 3 weeks before his 57th birthday. It was a quick 6 months and then he was gone. I regret not saying more when I had the chance, DON'T BE LIKE ME IN THAT REGARD!



Mr. Barlow, thanks for your compliments. I just try to learn as much as I can about things and form my opinions from there. My biggest problem right now is getting other people my age to even pay attention to whats going on in this country (I'll be 27 in 2 weeks). It seems all they care about is partying and what not, I love this country and want to see it continue to be the greatest place to live in the world.

 

[HBarlow]

Mr. Barlow, thanks for your compliments. I just try to learn as much as I can about things and form my opinions from there. My biggest problem right now is getting other people my age to even pay attention to whats going on in this country (I'll be 27 in 2 weeks). It seems all they care about is partying and what not, I love this country and want to see it continue to be the greatest place to live in the world.

Your age, interest in our country and current events, and the wisdom your comments reveal give me renewed hope for the future of our great country. It is true that there are millions of spoiled airheads your age that are only concerned about partying, but there are also many who are far older than that age group who are very similar to them. Many who are old enough to get serious don't understand or appreciate the freedom and opportunity this great country provides.



Keep up the great attitude.

 

[Dieselnut59]

That is what I was thinking too! I have several younger friends and they generally seem to care about nothing more than pop culture and no NOTHING about politics or who represents them, etc. Congrats on keeping informed and giving us hope!

 

[EricBu12]

Guys, Look at this google video about the north slope of alaska


The Energy Non-Crisis

 

[Crazy Horse]

That's of no surprize to me. Finally someone speaks up on the facts.



Why won't we see this looked into on the nightly news ???



I knew an old timer who was an engineer for the Alaska Railroad before it was a state. He retired around 1986. He spoke of discovered oil that was hushed up for security reasons sometime in the late 60's or early 70's. Oil reserves were discovered off the coast near Cordova and the North Slope that were of unimaginable size; like the world has never seen. He was serious and spoke of this a couple of times over the years (1986-2004) I knew him.

 

[Dieselnut59]

WOW! I watched the first 10 minutes (it is 1 hour and 15 min long!)

Amazing what is being withheld from us because of the enviro wackos and the existing administration and oil companies. The upcoming administration will be no better, no matter who its leader is. Maybe a private company needs to drill for and refine that oil and natural gas? Someone other than the "big oil" companies that exist today. OR, maybe the state of Alaska should do it themselves, as their own oil company. I am NOT a fan of government run industry, but something needs to be done to get these resources to market before our whole economy self destructs. Natural gas is used for power generation. I heard today that power bills can be expected to increase by 25% if natural gas costs continue to rise. The resources are there! Let's get them in motion!! Drill! Build refineries! Do what it takes to get this fuel to market!

 

[Crazy Horse]

I think Wally Hickel (Governor) knew something the ordinary fellow didn't. Under his administration back in the 80 when he was Governor there was talk of seceding from the Lower 48. I was all for it. He was also the Secretary of the Interior back in the late 60's.







We need a neutral 3rd party (Non Government-Non Oil Company) to investigate this.

 

[JesseJ]

I think the current gov. of Alaska knows whats going on. She went on the news and said that Alaska was going to sue the Feds for putting the polar bear on the "threatened species" list because it would stop any more exploration or extraction on the north slope. Amazing an animal can have a five-fold increase in population in the last 30 years and still be put on the list. I heard about Shell or BP spending millions to get a bunch of equipment up there last winter for the very short drilling season and then the environmental nut jobs sued them and went to a liberal judge and they blocked them from doing anything, now they have to wait until next winter to do anything. #@$%! Hang the tree huggers from the tallest tree!#@$%!

 

[DHayden]

. #@$%! Hang the tree huggers from the tallest tree!#@$%!

Tall "enough" will do :-laf

 

[Crazy Horse]

It's amazing how a liberal news media can distort the facts and not broadcast the news we need to know. That's a bunch of crap about the polar bears just like it was going to hurt the migration of the Caribou after the pipline was built.



"Over four decades of development on the North Slope have shown that caribou can co-exist with development. The Central Arctic Herd, which calves in the Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk oil fields, has increased from 3,000 animals to more than 23,400 animals. Facilities in the Coastal Plain area would be designed to protect this important species and their habitat. "

 

[Soot4Life]

Either this guy is right on or he is just another crackpot with an Area 51 story that cannot be corroborated. If we have all this oil in Alaska and the oil producing countries have us by the short hair, why don't we drill and pump and tell our petro suppliers to kiss our tanks? Those petro dollars could stay home creating more American jobs getting American projects designed and built. We could always sell a gallon or two and pay off our national debt while we were at it. Is he saying Big Oil is our defacto American government?

 

[HBarlow]

Either this guy is right on or he is just another crackpot with an Area 51 story that cannot be corroborated. If we have all this oil in Alaska and the oil producing countries have us by the short hair, why don't we drill and pump and tell our petro suppliers to kiss our tanks? Those petro dollars could stay home creating more American jobs getting American projects designed and built. We could always sell a gallon or two and pay off our national debt while we were at it. Is he saying Big Oil is our defacto American government?

Because the liberal socialists that control the Congress prevent it. A bill was passed through the house and senate years ago to permit drilling in ANWR when the congress was controlled by Republicans and slick willie vetoed it, more than once if I remember correctly. The current administration has tried repeatedly and can't get it through the congress.



The treehuggers like high gas and diesel fuel prices because in their misguided little pinheads automobiles are evil and polute the environment and high prices and taxes will reduce use of the automobile. The treehuggers and other anti-Americans control the liberals soclalists who are the majority in congress. To them, the environment is more important than American jobs and prosperity.

 

[DCreed]

That has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I've read. If the current president wanted to lower fuel costs he would STOP STOCKPILING OIL RESERVES! He started that as part of the war effort 8yrs ago. the reserve is at RECORD highs and so is what we pay for that same fuel. hmmmmm... must be the tree huggers that make the biodiesel and liberal socialists that know dang well that any oil drilled in anwr will STILL cost the same as now!!!

 

[DHayden]

That has got to be one of the most ignorant posts I've read. If the current president wanted to lower fuel costs he would STOP STOCKPILING OIL RESERVES! He started that as part of the war effort 8yrs ago. the reserve is at RECORD highs and so is what we pay for that same fuel. hmmmmm... must be the tree huggers that make the biodiesel and liberal socialists that know dang well that any oil drilled in anwr will STILL cost the same as now!!!

I just got a dose of some of your "other posts on a different thread" You using the word ignorant is an Irony to me. There was a guy a few years ago who talked the same. He would make an uninformed statement and when someone provided him with rebuttle which included 4 or 5 links he would make some ridiculous whimsical statement to redirect his own ignorance. Then he would never provide any information to back his statements he would say "you look it up and prove me wrong", and when you did it was just another ridculous redirecting statement from him. HBarlow, some people just cannot be reasoned with, I noticed the duck outs and bland retorts of some of the previous posts. Breath and reason is wasted on this one.

 

[DCreed]

I just got a dose of some of your "other posts on a different thread" You using the word ignorant is an Irony to me. There was a guy a few years ago who talked the same. He would make an uninformed statement and when someone provided him with rebuttle which included 4 or 5 links he would make some ridiculous whimsical statement to redirect his own ignorance. Then he would never provide any information to back his statements he would say "you look it up and prove me wrong", and when you did it was just another ridculous redirecting statement from him. HBarlow, some people just cannot be reasoned with, I noticed the duck outs and bland retorts of some of the previous posts. Breath and reason is wasted on this one.

I have re-read this entire thread, neither you nor harvey have provide even one single fact or link to back anything you say so feel free to be a hypocrit.

 

[HBarlow]

I just got a dose of some of your "other posts on a different thread" You using the word ignorant is an Irony to me. There was a guy a few years ago who talked the same. He would make an uninformed statement and when someone provided him with rebuttle which included 4 or 5 links he would make some ridiculous whimsical statement to redirect his own ignorance. Then he would never provide any information to back his statements he would say "you look it up and prove me wrong", and when you did it was just another ridculous redirecting statement from him. HBarlow, some people just cannot be reasoned with, I noticed the duck outs and bland retorts of some of the previous posts. Breath and reason is wasted on this one.

DHayden,



Yep, you're right. People tend to believe what they want to believe, what makes them feel better about their own lives, particularly when it comes to issues like motor fuel prices and taxes which are political issues. Anyone who has even a clue about basic consumer economics understands the fundamentals of supply and demand and realizes the cause of high prices. Oh well, that is their right.



Those who hate America, American business, and American industry won't admit it but most are not doing very well and want government to take what productive Americans have earned and give it to them to make their lives easier or better.