Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) water for fuel?

[PetesonM]

Has anybody heard of this Hhowater4gas.com? It talks about a water inj system of some type and brags about huge fuel milage increase. or is this another pyramid deal.

 

[jkidd]

My understanding is that it can work. It will advance timing. Too much is bad and too little will not have an effect. My understanding is that the kits sold are not sophisticated enough to be of benefit except at a certain rpm or air/fuel/HHO ratio. Please someone with real knowledge correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

If it sounds too good to be true than it is



mopar

 

[jkidd]

water injection can up to 20hp per snow performance claims.

 

[jkalchik]

<sigh> Here we go again... ...

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (with no apologies to R. A. H. )

HHO is nothing more than another (somewhat incorrect) way to describe water's component atoms, 2 hydrogens and an oxygen. The laws of thermodynamics pretty clearly show that you won't get any more energy out of combining hydrogen and oxygen into water than it takes to disassociate water into oxygen and hydrogen. And due to losses in the system, you'll have to add energy to break even. Note that this is from a purely chemical reaction viewpoint.

If you can get a better burn by adding hydrogen and oxygen to your existing fuel, that's a different story, along the lines of propane injection.

 

[DCruger]

Hho

if anything it will keep your induction very clean and more efficient.

I have been watching the hho blogs for a while and there a a few company's out there that have kits for the big diesels cost about 1-2k

and they claim 2-3 mpg on a big truck.

i was going to build one just to play with and see if it would at least clean the truck. have not gone there yet.

 

[PetesonM]

so can somebody break this down to 4th grade level for me:-laf. What are they doing? Advancing the timing adding fuel and water? I thought that water inj was done to cool temps not as a fuel source I thought our whole goal was to make as much heat (boom) in the cyclinder as we could with out melting anything or lifting the head. what is the ideal air fuel ratio for a diesel anyway? Sorry I get into this stuff and i want to know more and its all I can think about. Is there a good link thats not to basic that somebody can put out there that I can read? thanks all you guys.

 

[Road Dog]

It simple -- they're separating you from your money. water4gas is claiming you can split the water into hydrogen and oxygen and then burn it in your engine just like gas. Complete junk science.

Water injection is a different beast. The water absorbs heat as it vapourizes preventing knock and this allows more spark advance and more power. (The heat is still in the cylinder and the change from liquid to vapour provides more pressure against the piston).

Diesels don't care about air-fuel ratios. It's always wide open throttle (no throttle plate) and more fuel = more power until you run out of oxygen. Then you get black smoke (soot from incomplete combustion).

 

[DieselLady]

Snow performance uses water meth injection to get that increase in horsepower. Not advisable in my opinion. Meth gives you extreme cyl temps and pressures. ATS carries a water injection system that will reduce EGTs and has settings for different EGT temps and boost pressure. So when you are hard into it on the side of a hill with a big trailer on the back it keeps things cool and running more efficient. THis improves fuel economy, but they aren't claiming what those other guys are. What ever that is.

 

[LSchulz]

HHO is nothing more than another (somewhat incorrect) way to describe water's component atoms, 2 hydrogens and an oxygen. The laws of thermodynamics pretty clearly show that you won't get any more energy out of combining hydrogen and oxygen into water than it takes to disassociate water into oxygen and hydrogen. And due to losses in the system, you'll have to add energy to break even. Note that this is from a purely chemical reaction viewpoint.

Exactly. I just put up a nearly identical reply on the Greasecar forum, as I have done many times before on many forums. If only we could get around that whole law of conservation of energy thing, we'd have a lot fewer problems in this world.

 

[Joe Mc]

If only we could get around that whole law of conservation of energy thing, we'd have a lot fewer problems in this world.

Bingo! "Let them DRILL DA_N IT!"#@$%!

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Bingo! "Let them DRILL DA_N IT!"#@$%!

Exactly



Continue with the R and R on alternative fuels and hybrid technology (Who would'nt want a turbodiesel hybrid?)



But drill for now.



We can't switch over to an alternative fuel tomorrow, the transition will be a bit more gradual.

 

[BHubbard]

Has anyone heard of browns gas? seems that if you have a electrolyzer mounted inside your water injection holding tank you produce a form of hydrogen gases which is injected into your intake. Properly done it may help your fuel last longer, I have driven a fullsize gas truck before and after,with great results but no mileage gain, it seems like one would have to trick the computer/sensors to achieve any mileage gain?

 

[icman95]

Exactly



Continue with the R and R on alternative fuels and hybrid technology (Who would'nt want a turbodiesel hybrid?)



But drill for now.



We can't switch over to an alternative fuel tomorrow, the transition will be a bit more gradual.

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but I'm sure everyone might have seen today's news that the President has lifted the Executive Order banning new offshore drilling today. It remains for Congress to do the same before new exploration can begin. A simple email to your Rep and Senator will go a long way to helping our cause for more fuel and lower prices. I frequently contact my State and Federal representatives on a variety of issues and can tell you that they are listening. For every one person that makes contact, they know that there are many more behind willing to vote the same way. Don't think that just because you are one voter you don't count. Make that call or email. It can only help.



Talking about it here makes us feel good, but gets little real action done. Calling the lawmakers is the only thing that will help.

 

[wilsonsh]

Overstating and misleading info...

The idea is that you put water in a jar with two electrodes that are wired to the car's electrical system. Then, as dc current is passed thru the water, the H2O molecule breaks it's bond and creates H2 and 02 which is in the form of a gas and that is plumbed into the intake of the engine. The computer senses this extra fuel(H2 has alot of energy per weight compared to gasoline/diesel) via exhaust gas sensors and backs the fuel off; ie. giving you better gas mileage.



The IDEA THEORETICALLY is true HOWEVER, the size of an apparatus that would provide enough H2 to make any difference would be nearly the same size as the vehicle it is for. The jar on the website might create 1 cubic foot per minute(CFM) of H2 while the intake requirement for just the air to complete combustion with diesel might be 600+CFM at 1500 RPM!



Hope this makes sense.



Water injection is a-whole-nother animal and has great benefits at minimal effort.

 

[randrews45]

Actually the Discovery Channel program "Myth Busters" tested this product in a gas engine car. Their technicians could not make this kit work at all. They reported that this product is a myth and was thoroughly "BUSTED"!

 

[wilsonsh]

They do work... some of them. But, like I said, they barely make hydrogen.