Diesel secret energy .63 cents per gallon

[Kernel]

Thanks Jay.

 

[Msilbernagel]

mike

[... ]you can probably eliminate the DSE additive

[... ] here are the ingredients listed on the lable. HEAVY AROMATIC NAPTHA, 2-ETHELHEXEL NITRATE, OLEAN DIETHANOLAMINE, DIETHELENE GLYCOL, MONOMETHL ETHER.

If it were me, I would not eliminate the DSE.



Looking at these chemicals and where they're used tells you a bit. I think the last two are particularly important if you're leaving the glycerin in the fuel:



1) 2EHN is a commonly used cetane booster (same as in PS)



2) HEAVY AROMATIC NAPTHA: Fuel additives such as injector cleaners (STP)



3) Diethanolamine - ". . as a humectant and softening agent, and as an emulsifier and dispersing agent in various agricultural chemicals. "



4) DIETHELENE GLYCOL MONOMETHL ETHER -solvent for waxes



If avoiding wax buildup and keeping the lipids in suspension with everything else is important - I'd say the DSE is adding value. You might want to test it in a glass container (with, without) and see what kind of stuff sticks to the glass in each case, to get an idea of what buildup could occur?



FYI - Mark

 

[Msilbernagel]

If it were me, I would not eliminate the DSE.

3) Diethanolamine - ". . as a humectant and softening agent, and as an emulsifier and dispersing agent in various agricultural chemicals. " Mark

To expand - check this out. It speaks of benefits of emulisifiers in combustion of glyecerin... so, it not only keeps things suspended but should help deal with water too:



To quote: "1. Introduction -- Emulsified fuel combustion method has been recognized to cause the improvement of the combustion efficiency and the reduction of pollutant emissions including unburned hydrocarbons, nitric oxides and soot. This has resulted in the increased interest in the study on the combustion of emulsified fuels, especially on the microexplosion (secondary-atomization) phenomena of emulsified fuel (emulsion) droplets, such as breaking up of droplets into smaller secondary-droplets, so-called "disruption" (Fig. 1), and blowing-out of vapors laden with fine droplets, so-called "puffing". Evaporation and combustion of a single emulsion droplet have been examined experimentally with free droplets and fiber-suspended droplets or theoretically [1-3]. "



Found at: Phase Separation inside a burning droplet of oil



I think the DSE stands to be a significant benefit if you're using SVO/WVO in a diesel, particularly if you want long-term use without adverse side-effects (coking, soot, clogged injectors, etc).



Never used the stuff. Never heard of it before. Just thinking about how the ingredients may be useful. If there are any *real* chemists out there, I'd love to hear what they have to say about this stuff.



Regards,



Mark

 

[ASnider]

Dse???????

Keep this thread going you users. There are lots of us out here dying to know if this will really work, but afraid to leap. I'm in Wyoming with winter looming, not sure if I should give it a try until next summer.

 

[Msilbernagel]

Keep this thread going you users. There are lots of us out here dying to know if this will really work, but afraid to leap. I'm in Wyoming with winter looming, not sure if I should give it a try until next summer.

Perhaps we can give CJ a hand, he's brave enough to try it in his '05 (I think it is)... He's posting progress on this thread:



CJ's thread on using DSE



I suggested to him that if he can't find help examining his injectors, perhaps enough of us could pitch in and help pay to have it done - say, after a thousand miles or so?



FYI, Mark

 

[DSpencer]

For everyone waiting to see what happens, be patient. I have read many studies on alternate fuels for diesel engines. Many of the studies only found problems such as abnormal wear when the engines were torn down or after 30-50 thousand miles.



Its not if the truck runs fine on it but how does it run after 100 thousand miles. I am going to watch but I am very skeptical of this stuff working for extended periods.

 

[blacksheep4x4]

I would tend to agree with you, however due to the relatively low cost (. 15 cents per gallon) i will continue to use it. there are ingrediaents listed on the bottle, but i am not a chemist. there may be ingredients in it that help to breakdown the was and glycerides.

The job of the DSE additive are to preserve the fuel so it does not go rancid. It also helps lower the temp range you can use the fuel in.

 

[Diesel Power]

any updates on this stuff? any results would be nice! thanks

 

[guh2stroke]

Whenever I mix up a batch I just put in more diesel fuel additive to make up the difference. I didn't just go do this, a friend of mine did it for about a year and his truck runs great. The only thing we have noticed is that you have to change fuel filter a little more. Even if you changed a filter every tank(which you don't) It would still be a darn good deal in my book, Alex (93W-250-5SPD)

 

[WNasser]

Here in PA, I have met a guy that makes his own Bio-Diesel. He has a still in his garage where he makes the fuel.



He collects the fuel from local restaurants. Because the oil he collects comes from different sources he performs a titration test to determine the proper mixture of ingredients to get the fatty acids at their proper length.



He then adds 22% methanol and lye (pot-ash) according to the titration and then boils the mixture at a 130 degs in a water heater with the top element removed. Methanol boils very quickly at low temp. This will align the fatty acids to the proper length and create two by products. Glycerine and water.



Then the is transferred to another barrel where it is dried. This will remove more water and glycerine. I guess when the fuel cools sometimes it turn into an emulsion. From what I understand this will basically be just like ivory soap. If this happens he sticks a heating element back into the drying tank to break up the emulsion.



He'll dry it 3 or 4 times depending on the water and glycerine and then its ready to roll. He'll filter it with a 10 micron filter as it goes into the finished product barrel. He has a 1-micron filter attached to the pump that he uses to fill the cars. Yes, he is self-proclaimed OCD.



With this rig, his cost of manufacturing this fuel is approximately $. 45/gallon. The majority of that coming from the purchase of methanol. Supposedly he has a 50 centane rating on this stuff which is pretty darn good.



He can store this stuff all year round without it going bad. He starts his truck (06' 2500 CTD) with it in the winter without any mods. He doesn't use a block heater or anything.



Now compared to the mixtures described previously it sounds to me like its mostly vegtable oil, with kerosine and some other products mixed in. If the oil isn't boiled with proper mixture of lye and methanol the fatty acids won't arrange to the desired length. The fuel has to be dried properly as well or it will lead to an emulsion.



A major problem with Bio-Diesel is that there is no quality control, which is both good and bad. There are a lot of companies out there making this stuff with no real standards. This is where people can run into trouble and it could leave them with a sour taste in their mouth about the whole concept. It only takes one bad apple.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If it were me, I would not eliminate the DSE. . .

4) DIETHELENE GLYCOL MONOMETHL ETHER -solvent for waxes

Kicking this thread back to the top. I am wondering about using diethylene glycol monoethyl ether alone as a way to lower cloud point and be able to use DSE-ized fuel in cold weather? I would have no idea where it could be purchased, how hard it would be on fuel system components, and how dangerous it is to handle (breathing vapors, and flammability).



Vaughn

 

[Msilbernagel]

Vaughn,



The stuff appears to be used in jet fuel as a de-icer (more below).



Information on common use and links on toxicity can be found in this household products website (Household Products Database).



It's found in these commonly used products:



Wagner Premium Brake Fluid, Prestone Heavy Duty Brake Fluid, Zep Tile and Terrazzo Cleaner, Mop & Glo Floor Shine, Prefer Floor Finish, Zep Tile and Terrazzo Cleaner-04/08/2002, Zep Stain Resistant Floor Sealer, Jobmaster High Gloss Floor Finish, Self Polishing, Institutional, Brilliance Floor Finish Home inside, Rebound Floor Finish Concentrate, Zep Stain Resistant Floor Sealer-03/21/2002, Perk Floor Cleaner and Polish, Krylon Living Color Acryl Enamel (Gloss), Goof Off, Thoroseal Redi Mix Paint



The average use seems to be 5% or so, and I don't see it being used as a fuel additive (outside of the jet fuel). I think the EPA has concerns about it... perhaps that's why it's not commonly used in our fuels?



If you follow the medical data links from the above page - it seems this stuff is pretty nasty on humans.



As for use - it seems to be specifically for preventing icing of water suspended in the fuel, not as a means of preventing gelling. Note this information about it's use (and history) as a jet fuel additive: Diethylene Glycol as a jet fuel additive



There, they state "DEGMME serves the exact same purpose of preventing icing of suspended water in jet fuel at altitude... "



Mark

-

Kicking this thread back to the top. I am wondering about using diethylene glycol monoethyl ether alone as a way to lower cloud point and be able to use DSE-ized fuel in cold weather? I would have no idea where it could be purchased, how hard it would be on fuel system components, and how dangerous it is to handle (breathing vapors, and flammability).



Vaughn

 

[edgeman]

I have recantly ordered the DSE kit. In my thirst for more knowledge I started reading some of the other forems, now im not sure. I sure hope I havent wasted my $. There sure is a lot of hate for this DSE stuf. Any one else feel the same?

 

[mcsinfl]

I have recantly ordered the DSE kit. In my thirst for more knowledge I started reading some of the other forems, now im not sure. I sure hope I havent wasted my $. There sure is a lot of hate for this DSE stuf. Any one else feel the same?

I'm new to and learning about biofuels. My reading tells me DSE is not bad stuff, you just don't need it. I also get the impression that most people don't like the company's business model, they are basically repackaging common chemicals that cost pennies and are charging a small fortune for it.

 

[cj hall]

dse

hello edgeman



Will you did OR you did not it dependes on if you buy more of it then you will be wasting your money. what you have or will have in a week or so is worth what you paid for it. but buying more will just make the people at dse more money.



READ THE POST I STARTED ON DSE THE STICKY ONE THERE IS A LOT OF INFO IN THERE



THEN ASK ANY QUESTIONS YOU WANT.



CJ HALL

 

[edgeman]

dse

cj I read the whole thread, took me about 3 days. Wow what a lot of info! Im in the process of trying to get WVO. Not haveing much luck just yet. Thank you for all the resurch you did! edgeman

 

[okayred]

Well...

Well, anyone gum up their fuel system or injectors?



It looks like costco is selling their oil for $6. 60 per gallon now.



Any blenders still blending with wvo?

 

[cj hall]

blending

ok



I will start



yes I am, thats one and no to gum up their fuel system or injectors? there is no gum in vegetable oil.



cj hall

 

[okayred]

ok



I will start



yes I am, thats one and no to gum up their fuel system or injectors? there is no gum in vegetable oil.



cj hall

Didn't expect any "gum" in the WVO. I have seen pictures of injection pumps with "gummed up" parts due to the glycerin which is present in the vegetable oil. Please forgive my Texas vernacular. Where I come from "gum" can be used for more than derivatives of the gum acacia.



In any regard, thank you so much for answering my post Mr. Hall.

 

[cj hall]

sorry about that

hello sir.



I really should not try to a smart *** on the computer



I to have seen the same thing with pumps and injectors gumming of parts.

what i see is that if you set out some vegetable oil and come back in a few weeks it will be rubbery gum like goo. but if you add gasoline to it and mix it in good its not as bad takes longer to get it to the goo state.



most of the one here have the problem of gumming are the one running svo,wvo in older engines not filtering right or not thinking about what they are doing. the only time i see the gum is when there is a spill or a leak in a fitting a lot of this is caused by air, the tanks i make my fuel in have sticky stuff on them but below the fuel line its clean nothing sticky.



I dont by in to the glycerin idea I feel that its not any worse then parifin in the diesel fuel. but I could be wrong three years of doing this and nothing bad has happend but time will tell.



Read this it seems to can that it can be made from

glycerin is derived from both natural and petrochemical feedstocks.

does this mean its in crude oil ?????



Why Glycerine USP?



I dont want a big fight started about this I just found it and thought I would share.



sorry for the comments about the gumming.



cj hall