Over-full on dipstick, oil analysis just came back bad, fuel in oil.

[Coalsmoke]

I'm in the middle of a road trip at the moment, did my scheduled oil change at 11,300kms and sent off a sample of oil to Finning oil labs for testing because 20% more oil came out than what I had put in. The lab said the oil was bad, had 3% fuel in it which thinned the oil out to a 30wt viscosity. So, I'm not sure where the extra 17% or so of oil is coming from and I am concerned about the reduced viscosity. I'm going to take the truck to the dealer as soon as I get home, but I have almost zero faith in them and expect them to try and pass the buck. Any input on how I should handle this would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[WKruger]

As long as you didn't stick a programmer or module on it, basically left the engine stock, including no fuel additives, they ought to warranty it.

 

[Coalsmoke]

My warranty is still intact, but the idea of them having my truck for 3-4 weeks and not fixing the issue like others have experienced is what's nagging on me. Has anyone had this fuel in oil issue with the 6. 7 and had it resolved one way or another?

 

[River-Runner]

My warranty is still intact, but the idea of them having my truck for 3-4 weeks and not fixing the issue like others have experienced is what's nagging on me. Has anyone had this fuel in oil issue with the 6. 7 and had it resolved one way or another?

My dealer had mine for three days last week and came back saying it was just a normal situation for the oil to increase at least 1/2 inch above the plastic part on the dipstick. They told me about how this engine is "different" and I should just not worry about it. They told me they had looked at other 6. 7's in the shop and they all had high oil levels versus the dipstick.



Why is there a dipstick with a recommended oil level if it is the wrong level? Why does the level increase over time if it is "normal?"

 

[lpagano]

My warranty is still intact, but the idea of them having my truck for 3-4 weeks and not fixing the issue like others have experienced is what's nagging on me. Has anyone had this fuel in oil issue with the 6. 7 and had it resolved one way or another?

I had the same problem, 2 quarts over the full mark in 4100 miles, fuel dilution at 6%. The latest software update seems to have helped, with no increase in oil level at 2100 miles. You have read my prevous posts regarding this situation, any doubts now? This is not a normal situation, and will lead to some serious internal engine problems if not addressed by DODGE/CUMMINS soon. Washing down the cylinder walls with raw fuel to achieve active regen goes against everything I know about internal combustion engines. On the larger CUMMINS engines, the active regen fuel is injected AFTER the turbo into the exhaust stream. Could this have been on our engines? Or why not put an electric grid heater of some sort in the exhaust to generate the heat needed for active regen, with it's own dedicated alternator to supply the current. For now, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not responsible for the design of this emission control system. Sure, it works really well when it works, but the Spruce Goose also flew, once!

 

[LLiddell]

I just bought a bypass system called Premo and it runs the oil over a heated coil to remove any water or fuel in the oil. This won't fix your true problem I know but it may be food for thought for some.

 

[HeberRam]

I feel that some of the problems with the increased fuel dilution in the oil is caused by the amount of soot and re-generation process. Can't prove it, but suspect it. It might be good information for those that have a stock truck to check their oil level now and report back. It maybe a lot of them are driving around and don't even know their oil level is high? I changed my oil at the sametime I did the deletes, but didn't check it at that time. However, since the deletes, my oil level is normal with approx. 2000 miles with the deletes.

 

[sag2]

Coalsmoke, the 3% is perfectly acceptable. I have reports from multiple engines that show the allowable is 5%, and the change oil light should be coming on at near 5%. The reason I have run so many samples is I was trying to prove out the oil change algorithm, and so far it had been very close.

 

[JCleary]

Coalsmoke, the 3% is perfectly acceptable. I have reports from multiple engines that show the allowable is 5%, and the change oil light should be coming on at near 5%. The reason I have run so many samples is I was trying to prove out the oil change algorithm, and so far it had been very close.

Good info there...



I was wondering how the ecm knew when the oil needs to be changed. Is there a sensor that determines the amount of fuel dilution?

 

[csavard]

Not Making Oil Any More

well, after putting 3k on my truck since the first oil change I can say without a doubt that it is not making oil any longer. The DPF delete with the EGR deleted seems to have cleaned up the oil making problem completely.



Has any one else found this to be true for them?



Cheers,

Chris

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm waiting on a bit more oil analysis info before taking it to DC to see what game they try to play.

 

[ackermanN]

Sag2, you stated "The reason I have run so many samples is I was trying to prove out the

oil change algorithm, and so far it had been very close. " Close to actual? Further, why is it that

we have a recommended change of 5000 and the DPF causes us to change at 2500 miles, roughly?

 

[Jim W]

I maybe wrong but why does everyone think the DPF is the cause of increase Oil level in the crankcase? Is not the DPF after the turbo and catalyst in the exhaust system. I would think the extra oil in the crankcase might come from the EGR system, since this is what turns the oil so black. I believe that the EGR system maybe dumping unburnt fuel back in to the oil on some trucks?

I have had two oil changes at 4500 to 5000 miles each, leave the exhaust brake on all the time, pull a 5er and use the truck as a daily drive. My only mods to the engine are gauges. I do check the oil at every other fill up of fuel and I do not have an over full condition on the dipstick that I can see.

Just my $0. 02.

 

[damar]

You need to realize that the Cummins engines use the regen designed by Cummins. The Dodge/Cummins uses the BlueTec which was designed by Mercedes prior to the sale off of Chrysler. You can't compare the two due to the fact they are different designs.

 

[ackermanN]

Sag2, I was also wondering if you had noticed this fuel in lube oil condition on

most 5. 9Ls?

Fritz

 

[lpagano]

I maybe wrong but why does everyone think the DPF is the cause of increase Oil level in the crankcase? Is not the DPF after the turbo and catalyst in the exhaust system. I would think the extra oil in the crankcase might come from the EGR system, since this is what turns the oil so black. I believe that the EGR system maybe dumping unburnt fuel back in to the oil on some trucks?

I have had two oil changes at 4500 to 5000 miles each, leave the exhaust brake on all the time, pull a 5er and use the truck as a daily drive. My only mods to the engine are gauges. I do check the oil at every other fill up of fuel and I do not have an over full condition on the dipstick that I can see.

Just my $0. 02.

It's not the DPF, it's the extra fuel injected into the combustion chamber AFTER combustion (bad idea) to achieve active regeneration that's probably the culprit here. Cummins did'nt put those upgraded piston rings for no reason.

 

[courierdog]

First, Cummins manufactures and uses the BlueTec system as invented by Daimler.

Second, I have monitored and analyzed my oil from day one and only before 52,000 Km did I have any fuel dilution >1% in my oil since that point my oil analysis to this point 179,000 Km I have had 0% fuel dilution however with the 6. 7 there is an issue of oil hold back during the oil change. It takes a long time for all of the oil to drain back to the sump.

I measure oil in and oil out and do know this for a fact!

I have spoke to several people on this matter and for some unexplained reason the 6. 7 does retain oil in the system and the only visible symptom is the increase of oil on the dipstick.

Now I do recognize that soot by volume will add to the quantity of oil.

If you have a better explanation I would love to hear it.

 

[lpagano]

What you're saying is that about two quarts of of oil stays in the engine from the first time it's filled, and every time you change it, the two quarts mysteriously reappears over the next 4000 miles, like clock work, a half quart per thousand miles? I doubt it, but I think that 6% fuel content in my last oil analysis is a good indication that the fuel needed to induce active regeneration is getting past the piston rings and in to the crankcase. Soot may also add to the volume. The last software update seems to minimized the problem on my truck by about 50%, since the oil level has only risen about a quart in 3500 miles.

 

[sag2]

Sag2, I was also wondering if you had noticed this fuel in lube oil condition on

most 5. 9Ls?

Fritz

Never really checked 5. 9's because with no aftertreatment there was no reason to suspect any fuel was getting past the rings. I still don't understand all the emotion about the oil level rising. If there is less than 5% fuel dilution it is not a problem. And at 5% of 12 quarts, it's about 1/2 quart over the oil change life. So my opinion still is, change the oil per the oil change light, and don't worry about the level. I have yet to see a 5. 9 or 6. 7 that uses any oil between changes, so barring a major leak, the oil level is going to be OK.

 

[sag2]

Sag2, you stated "The reason I have run so many samples is I was trying to prove out the

oil change algorithm, and so far it had been very close. " Close to actual? Further, why is it that

we have a recommended change of 5000 and the DPF causes us to change at 2500 miles, roughly?

Since there is no "sensor" to determine the oil dilution, an algorithm is used to "assume" when the oil is at a point that it needs to be changed. So the only way to prove the accuracy is to test the oil against the oil change light. The light should come on somewhere near 4% to 5%. Of all the tests I've run I have yet to find one that the % of fuel dilution was higher than the threshold to turn on the light. That's why I keep saying, quit worrying about the oil and just fill and change it per the oil change light.

Now for the reason for the 5000 in the book and your actual, it is based on the duty cycle "you" are driving. As you can see from members here, some get the light at 2000 miles, and others go 7500 and never see it. So it is strictly a function of how your truck is driven.

I have asked before and I would ask again, when was the last Cummins engine that had an oil related failure discussed on this forum. I still can't recall one, and there are a bunch of trucks represented here.