Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift Pump failure (AGAIN!)

[rootmanslim]

My 2001 Bone stock (powerwise) just ate it's second lift pump. After reading all the horror stories of lift pump problems I put a fuel pressure gauge on mine last summer. FOUR pounds... oops. Quickly ordered relocation kit from Genos and a new lift pump. When I went to remove the old one it was hanging by one of the three studs from the mount plate! Installed the relocation kit and new pump and wala 13 pounds on the gauge. That was at 60,000 miles.

Now a year later (71,000) miles, we took a trip across the state and back (WY) about 1200 miles. Shortly into the trip the pressure was either 12 or 6 pounds depending on nothing except the UFOs flying by. As the truck is stored 3 months every winter, I suspected a plugged fuel filter, so I went to the Dodge dealer in Grand Rapids SD (OUTSTANDING FOLKS!!!) and had the filter changed. Pressure back to 12 for 200 miles, then back to 6. So now I suspect the guage but pressed on with 6 or 12 as the day progressed. Saw the sights and headed home. Ran across a Cummins factory facility and stopped and bought a new pump. Got home okay. Unloaded and started it up ... 12 pounds for 45 seconds then 6. Stepped out (motor running) and could hear the pump. Got underneath and pump was vibrating. sounded like cavitation. Whacked it with a piece of 2x2 and it shut up for 5 seconds and then started again. This AM installed the new pump (EXACTLY the same part # as the old), wala, 14 pounds. So here is the question... How long do these damn things last? Carrying a spare gets rather expensive but I dare not go more than 50 miles from home without laying out another $170. 00.

I don't go fast, haul nothing heavier than a 2 horse trailer or a 1000 pound camper exceed factory maintenance requirements etc. . Guess the good news that it's not in tank mounted! Is there a solution other than spending $450. 00 for the FASS system? I have also been told that the new low sulpher fuel provides insufficient lubrication to the pump and I should add Lucas upper cylinder lube. Need some advice. thanks!

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

rootman,

Sorry you have had trouble with even the relocated pump. I do highly recommend the AirDog pump. I have over 300,000 miles on my AirDog and never have had an issue with it. The filters are less expensive than FASS and you can get 3 micron ratings. PM me for dealer contact.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JLandry]

Is there a solution other than spending $450. 00 for the FASS system?

YES!



The Airtex gearotor type pump is an excellent bolt-on replacement. They've been out for awhile now and so far they seem to be holding up for the long term. Mine has about 15-17 psi at idle (depending on fuel temp) and never drops below about 7 psi even under high loads and high engine rpms.



You can buy one from Diesel Distributors USA for $169. 99 delivered.



Best regards,



John L.

 

[BDaugherty]

Now you know why everyone changes to an aftermarket pump. The design of the factory Carter pump just doesn't work well for our application. I'm personally running a Walbro GSL392. However, if I was in your shoes and already had the relocation kit, I would install an Airdog Raptor. It's cheaper and I'm pretty sure that it would adapt to your current setup pretty well. If I had it to do again, I would go with the full Airdog setup with filters and big lines.

 

[JMetzger]

After 5 lift pumps went to a FASS, haven't been sorry.

 

[RJWEST]

? isolater in fuel gage line???

Bleed out air to fuel gage line. ???

 

[Harlacher]

Fass on mine for 70,000. Pressure always right at 13. Noisy but no problems. Sounds like the AirDog is a better set up. But it wasn't out when my lift and injection pump went south four years ago or so.

 

[kompressor]

I am running the FASS pump and filter system and am very happy with it. Measured fuel pressure into the injection pump is a constant 16 pounds.

 

[BWagnaar]

How is the voltage to the pump? Do you get fuel at the same station? Maybe they have a lot crap in the tank and you randomly get bad fuel from them.

 

[NMcCoy]

After my second lp I put a gauge on and it showed a steady 15 but after a year it would be at 15 at startup but drop down to about 4-5. I did notice that after I opened the throttle at least 3/4 the psi would go back to 15 but soon back down again. No problems after getting a fass.



There is a thread somewhere by Gary n7gld about cavitation with the carter pumps. I'd get a fass, airdog etc anything but a carter.

 

[Bob Cochran]

After 3 OEM pumps and Vulcan big line relocation kit installed AirDog and so far no problems. I sure feel better and a lot more comfortable with fuel system.

 

[mhenon]

Anytime I read about reoccurring problems with the LP (or any part for that matter) I've got to believe there's something else going on upstream to cause it.

In your case, since you've already relocated your pump, I would suspect some restriction in the tank or plumbing to the LP. You might want to drop the tank and check the screen and lines going to the LP. I'ed almost bet you have a partially plugged screen.

Mike

 

[Greenleaf]

Now you know why everyone changes to an aftermarket pump. The design of the factory Carter pump just doesn't work well for our application.

Put yourself in my shoes with a fleet of these things, pulling fuel from the back of an 84 passenger bus. The school isn't going to pay for a FASS or Fancy-Danncy brand lift pump. I don't even have any gauges on the buses.



The factory did pay to have the lift pump replaced one time and the ECM calibrated to set a code/illuminate the engine light when the supply is below 3 psi. (should have been 6 psi but... ... ... ) Bless them for what they did provide.



They should pay for a gauge set-up IMHO I simply cannot take time to install a gauge in every bus w/electric lift pump. That would cost some $$ the school isn't going to caugh up.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Greenleaf,

Wow, even if it would save from buying VP's they won't put on an aftermarket? Jeez, what a waste of money for the taxpayers that they don't...

Like your verse G/L.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[JoeCanuck]

I just put a Raptor in my truck. It was a pain but I had a full tank over a pit and couldn't lower it. So far, it's working with no issues.

In retrospect, since all I did was use the existing outlet from the tank, it would have been much easier to just tie into my existing line from the tank. Running a big line to the fuel filter was no problem.

For now, I'm leaving the steel tubing from the filter to VP in place. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge yet so I'm trusting the Raptor is set for a reasonable pressure.

 

[WILLD420]

Bought the airtex? type pump at autozone last week. So far 19-21 at idle 11-12 Wide Open. I will be doing some more upgrades ie. big pickup tube etc. I still have the original pump that was working fine when I took it off. I keep it in the toolbox along with the factory lines I had to remove with the new pump.

FWIW I took the failed pump apart. The pressure relief spring opened at 14 oz pressure on the ball, using a dowel and a oz/gram digital scale. I spent a couple hours fiddling with the thing, got the ball seat out and stretched the spring. Rechecked it, took 5 lbs to push the ball off the seat. I really think the carter pump is o. k. except that stupid spring. It looks like they fixed the ball seat pounding out issue. This one was so hard I couldn't even file the burrs off with a file. Had to use a whetstone when I put it all back together.

When I took the pump apart it looked brand new inside. It only had about 12K miles on it, so the brushes were still like new, no pitting or galling on the gerotor pump or anything out of the norm, except the stupid bypass spring had almost no tension...

 

[JVackiner]

When my Airtex pump went out after only 4 months I starting looking up stream. The legs on the bottom of the tank module were wore off and even wore up into the plastic that holds the screen (it was loose about half way around). There were metal slides on the side of the module and they were very worn and have been putting metal shavings into the fuel system. With the torn screen not keeping them out, I'll bet that is what took my pump. I put a newer style module (all plastic) in and Pronto Parts Store warranteed the pump so I think I should be good to go for awhile. The Airtex pump at idle is around 18psi and I haven't been able to pull it below 12psi. Good luck, Jeff.

 

[cj hall]

fuel pump

Hello to All



If you ever looked at the size of tube the fuel pump must suck thru or push thru you would hunt down the person that made this and hurt them. this is the cause of the stock fuel pumps going out if you just replace it it will fail again. even if you put a high dollar pump on it will fail.



Make a bigger dip tube upsize the fuel lines and you will be fine.



Dash 8 or 1/2 inch from the tank then either Dash 6 or 3/8 or 1/2 to the injection pump. Then you will be able to drive it without having to worry.



good luck



cj hall

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

cj hall,

While the suction tube in the tank is not what we would prefer it is not as bad as you say. My AirDog has 300,000 miles on it sucking through the factory tank module and providing 19 psi at the VP. And the AirDog is mounted in the bed of the truck approximately 2 feet above the tank! The truck actually has 680,000 miles on the original tank and module.

The reason the stock lift pumps fail is because they were never made to suck being so far from the tank.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[cj hall]

pumps

yes I agree the fuel pumps are not made to suck but thats a given.



Pumps are made to push but if your sucking thru a 1/4 hole with a 1/2 line will you will have cavitation problems the fass pump I have went bad in the first 6 months doing just what I said. now its got a 1/2 ss dip tube with dash 8 hose the the pump from there its dash 6 to the ip pump. overkill yes but it works. I have seen 19 psi at wide open the high has been over 30 psi FUNNY SOME OF THE FASS UNITS HAVE BIGGER DIP TUBE NOW.



Same goes for pushing thru a 1/4 hole it will ony flow so much. this two is hard on pumps that was my third one that went bad the first two on the back side of the fuel filter but thats dodge for you.



just what I have seen in the few short years I been around.



cj hall