EGR Delete

[jimnance]

I see the EGR delete photos posted on another site. I'm puzzled by something. Since unplugging and removing the EGR valve is going to set codes anyway, why not simply insert a blocking plug at either end of the cross over tube?

 

[lpagano]

Why not block it off at the exhaust manifold and leave everything connected?

 

[jimnance]

That's my point. Is there a reason not to just block the circulation of exhaust gas someway rather than removing all the equipment.

 

[sag2]

If you just plug off the flow, it upsets the MAF (mass airflow sensor) and you get strange idle qualities and surging. And it still sets a code after several trips for EGR performance. The complete package is pretty sophisticated and just blocking/unplugging creates some other problems.

 

[lpagano]

From what I've read, (or not read), this system is very sophisticated, but probably could be manipulated if the info was out there. I find more info from Ford/Navistar/IH about their systems used on the 6. 4, than about the Dodge/Cummins. Is this this system so advanced, that no information is available the general public, or do I need to spring for the factory service manual to find out what does what and when. And for all those thinking SCR is a great idea, you're wrong! You still have a DPF, EGR, some sort of catalytic converter and all of the other stuff you have now to make that all work, plus all the equipment needed for selective catalytic reduction, which is going to create a new set of problems.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Why install plates and fancy things when simply unplugging it works so well

 

[lpagano]

Why install plates and fancy things when simply unplugging it works so well

What did you unplug, and what improvements did unplugging said component yield?

 

[Coalsmoke]

Unplugged EGR control plug and the improvement is an EGR in a state of error that doesn't know what to do with itself so it stays at 0% duty cycle ie closed

 

[ARichards]

Why install plates and fancy things when simply unplugging it works so well

I ran with it unplugged for 1k miles both before my DPF delete & after. Unplugged was an improvment - but nothing spectacular. Then I made my own plates and completely deleted both EGR & Cooler. It still throws the same code (P0405)..... but for me it was a HUGE improvment in engine performance. Idle quality, throttle response, power, spoolup & exhaust brake are all seriously improved over simply unplugging.



With the EGR unplugged I would at times have a rough idle/stumbling/surging at startup (from the butterfly trying to close I assume) - hasn't happened since removing everything. I do get a MAF code at times - but no more startup weirdness. I also have the DPF pressure sensor box unplugged - which eliminates the OHC dinging at me every 10mins.



I guess if you're all about keeping things stock looking unplugging works and definetly will help the engine/turbo out... . but it will still allow *some* exhaust gasses and soot to get by. IMO if you want the engine to last as long as possible - delete everything, live with the check engine light (untill a code-free EGR delete is ready) and enjoy. Put it all back together for warranty work if you have a touchy dealer and don't put a programmer on it.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I ran with it unplugged for 1k miles both before my DPF delete & after. Unplugged was an improvment - but nothing spectacular. Then I made my own plates and completely deleted both EGR & Cooler. It still throws the same code (P0405)..... but for me it was a HUGE improvment in engine performance. Idle quality, throttle response, power, spoolup & exhaust brake are all seriously improved over simply unplugging.



With the EGR unplugged I would at times have a rough idle/stumbling/surging at startup (from the butterfly trying to close I assume) - hasn't happened since removing everything. I do get a MAF code at times - but no more startup weirdness. I also have the DPF pressure sensor box unplugged - which eliminates the OHC dinging at me every 10mins.



I guess if you're all about keeping things stock looking unplugging works and definetly will help the engine/turbo out... . but it will still allow *some* exhaust gasses and soot to get by. IMO if you want the engine to last as long as possible - delete everything, live with the check engine light (untill a code-free EGR delete is ready) and enjoy. Put it all back together for warranty work if you have a touchy dealer and don't put a programmer on it.

Hey, I'm glad you chimed in. I find that for the first 1/4 mile I get a bit of a bucking at mid throttle thanks to the EGR unplug, but didn't know that completely removing the system would take care of that. It's not an issue for normal driving, but if you ever need to star the engine and just let it idle for more than a few minutes it becomes a problem. Would you be able to explain what all you removed? The two things I am wondering about is



#1: did you pull the butterfly valve in the intake out and



#2: the egr valve that is on the passenger side of the engine, what did you do with that. I seem to recall hearing that someone unplugged that and it was causing them troubles. I only have the driver's side module unplugged.





I have a replacement / modded pressure box on mine, no dinging every 10 minutes. I don't remember who made it but can look it up on my invoice if you'd like.

 

[ARichards]

Hey, I'm glad you chimed in. I find that for the first 1/4 mile I get a bit of a bucking at mid throttle thanks to the EGR unplug, but didn't know that completely removing the system would take care of that. It's not an issue for normal driving, but if you ever need to star the engine and just let it idle for more than a few minutes it becomes a problem. Would you be able to explain what all you removed? The two things I am wondering about is



#1: did you pull the butterfly valve in the intake out and



#2: the egr valve that is on the passenger side of the engine, what did you do with that. I seem to recall hearing that someone unplugged that and it was causing them troubles. I only have the driver's side module unplugged.





I have a replacement / modded pressure box on mine, no dinging every 10 minutes. I don't remember who made it but can look it up on my invoice if you'd like.

I believe the bucking you're experiencing is the butterfly valve closing. As far as fixing that it's really up to how much time/experimentation you want to invest. My best advice is to go over to cumminsforum.com and read all the stickys and then read more :-laf Figuring out these EGRs has been an ongoing project for alot of us and we're learning new things all the time. Not every truck is the same but most are similar, and every variable is a factor (from driving style to the temperature/weather - yup no joke). In short, learning computers are a pain and there's a reason nobody has a code-free EGR delete (yet).



anyway - here's exactly what I did to my EGR system:



- butterfly valve is removed.



- EGR motor on the intake airhorn is unplugged & removed and blockoff plates installed. Crossover tube is gone.



- the "EGR valve" on the passenger side is usually called the EGR servo or Cooler servo. It is still plugged in and zipped to my airhorn - it should never be unplugged.



- the entire EGR cooler assembly is removed and blockoff plates installed.



- I have a bulldog PMT - but never clear codes (seems doing that alot "could" put the truck into limp-mode)



and pictures

#ad


#ad


#ad

 

[Coalsmoke]

Oh jeeeeezzzeeee, the hours I've spent reading over on the cummins forum, there's enough stuff there to make a guy's head spin. Thanks for the info and the pictures, that's great. This is my next step to the truck.

I've got a PM coming your way in a few minutes here.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Well, ARichards, this afternoon I decided to dive into it and get rid of the rest of that hard ware. I'd been putting it off for a couple months now, but once you said it took care of your bucking problem I figured I better get back going on it. It runs so much nicer now, no idling problems, no bucking, no surging. Thanks


Here's a couple of pics,
#1 leftovers,
#2 put back together (even managed to use the OEM EGR coolant tube with a bit of creative thinking and swapping some of the hose elbows around)
#3 with the shield back on, looks good and is 50lbs lighter:-laf

Spent about 5-6 hours all in all, but, I took my time and enjoyed myself, no point rushing the fun things in life.

 

[ARichards]

very nice work coalsmoke - and I'm liking the shield reinstallation - I'm thinking I need to do that and hide the servo motor and such. BTW - you can remove the cast iron cooler cradle if you want - shave another 20lbs off..... only a couple bolts holding that one on. My brother just took my truck to the coast and is bringing a cargo trailer back (800+ miles roundtrip). He managed around 20mpg driving 75mph and reported no problems. So bringing a trailer back - especially up cabbage hill will be a good test of the system.



Thanks again for the pics - very cool to hear it worked out for ya!

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thank you. I thought about removing the cradle, but because there are a couple of things that bolt to it I figured I'd leave it for now. One day I'll paint those caps and make a bracket for those lines so I can take out the cradle. I wasn't too sure about leaving the lines unsupported. I tucked my servo behind and above the fuel filter housing, sits nicely in there. There is a black metal L bracket that I zap strapped it to.

I'm absolutely loving this truck now, its got all the good of the 08s along with the good parts of the 12valvers. I get 200km / 125 miles more per tank of fuel now (around town driving).

Thanks again for sharing, I'm a happy guy tonight to get that EGR all sorted out.

 

[Kry226]

I guess my question now is, how does the removal of all of these hard parts effect everything else downstream (DPF, cat, turbo, regen, etc. )



I am a 5. 9 guy, but you never know with the crazy low truck prices these days.

 

[Coalsmoke]

DPF, regen, cat, what are those





:-laf

 

[ARichards]

ummm... . nothing really to effect - DPF is gone, Cat is gone, NOX filter is gone. Turbo is happier, no regen at all... . I could go on... . but in short the engine runs like it should now and should last MUCH longer.....

 

[sag2]

ummm... . nothing really to effect - DPF is gone, Cat is gone, NOX filter is gone. Turbo is happier, no regen at all... . I could go on... . but in short the engine runs like it should now and should last MUCH longer.....

I'm not sure the regen is completely gone. Unless you have some other device that resets the filter timers, it should perform a regen based on the filter timer. That would normally occur after driving several hours at highway speeds. The only other way is to get an active code that stops regen from occurring. Without looking them up, I believe there are about five such codes.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I'm not sure the regen is completely gone. Unless you have some other device that resets the filter timers, it should perform a regen based on the filter timer. That would normally occur after driving several hours at highway speeds. The only other way is to get an active code that stops regen from occurring. Without looking them up, I believe there are about five such codes.

I am positive that regens no longer occur at least with my setup, I have a monitor that will alarm if truck goes into regen mode.