Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) gelled fuel???? or what

[Champane Flight]

Cloud and freeze

As the temperature drops, the wax naturally found in diesel fuel begins to form crystals. The point at which wax crystals form is known as the cloud point. These wax crystals eventually clog the fuel filter and starve the engine of fuel, preventing it from starting. While low quality fuels may form wax crystals in temperatures as warm as 40°F (4°C), most fuels have a cloud point near 32°F (0°C). The point at which the wax crystals clog the fuel filter is known as the cold filter-plugging point (CFPP), and the filter can plug at a higher temperature, than the cloud point.

Come on Wayne, we are not going to sell more flow improver by setting the cloud points of fuel that high. Unless of course you are running bio. . I have run these cloud and freeze tests on fuel for the last twenty two years, I have never seen a cloud point on diesel at

32*, the highest temp I have ever seen a cloud point is 10F, this was in the middle of summer fuel season. Most of the winter fuel standards we ran were at -5-10 cloud and -15-20 freeze. Now this was straight off of pipeline, after it hit our storage it was blessed with a shot of flow improver, and if it was sold as Premium diesel it got a larger shot of additiveand flow improver. Then most of the time the jobbers would shoot another 25% #1 into it in the winter months. I have used cetane boost for years now, two tanks per bottle, all winter, have never had a gell problem. You also need to keep your tank on the full mark as much as possible to prevent condensation.

 

[RHestand]

How about this idea ?

I'm going to siphon out a few ounces into a clear jar, put a lid on it, and set it on, or near my truck.

Then when I'm wondering if it's too cold out for my fuel? I look at the jar.

The fuel in the tank shouldn't be any colder than whats in the jar, right?

What do you think?

Ray

 

[Champane Flight]

Cloudy diesel

That would work. However remember that diesel can also have moisture in it, this will show right away in agitated fuel as a cloudy sample, there are different levels of cloudy 1 being just a slight haze, to 6 being unable to see through the sample.

 

[amsoilman]

One thing to consider, is every fueling station's Diesel Fuel could have a defferent "cloud" point.

 

[Champane Flight]

True..

One thing to consider, is every fueling station's Diesel Fuel could have a defferent "cloud" point.

However, this nations refinerys have a certain standard for different regions, climate, and enviromental standards. These standards do not allow cloud points to be higher than climate in most areas. Where you find the problems is usually from jobbers trying to push fuel they bought at lower prices during the summer, profit rules.

 

[kenny61]

And I have had my diesel Gel in the twenties All it takes is one crappy load of fuel... .

 

[BigEasy]

jobbers trying to push fuel they bought at lower prices during the summer, profit rules.

you gotta be kidding... where were they storing it? and remember, prices were $2 a gallon higher 2 months ago

 

[Champane Flight]

This year..

you gotta be kidding... where were they storing it? and remember, prices were $2 a gallon higher 2 months ago

This year it would not be profitible, but for many years in the past it would be, many have tankage for just that purpose. You buy a couple of loads at a buck a gallon, sell it a few months later for two, nice little 17,000 dollar profit. . You should see a terminal the day before a price hike!



Moisture is huge in diesel, any and every tank out there that has carried diesel for an extended amount of time has water. Some things to watch out for, do not fuel if you see a delivery truck at the station, a delivery will stir up any water in the tank. Keep your tank full if your truck sits for any extended amount of time. Look for stations with high turnovers, if they are selling a lot of diesel, it does not have time to collect moisture. If you know the owners or if they will let you watch, watch them stick their tanks, use water paste to gauge the amount of water in the tank, how low is the pump pickup?



I have only gelled twice in my forty years of driving diesels, the temps were in the 20-45 below range when it happened. If you are ever in any really cold weather such as this, wait till morning to top off your tanks, warm fuel from underground tanks will give you an edge, keep your additives handy, an extra fuel filter handy, and I have even used a trouble light laid near my fuel filter for the night.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I do not know of ANY fuel suppliers out there who sell ULSD with a cloud point of above zero, this includes TX and southern states. Most ULSD from any source will have a freeze point of -10 or lower this time of year. If you are having fuel problems, it is moisture, fuel filter, or lines, gelling is not an option at 25'...

Well the fuel I bought here in Washington a couple days gelled up on me this morning at +2 degrees. Started up, began driving, only got two blocks before it came to a sputtering halt. I managed to idle home in 1st gear and put a 4x extra dose of fuel conditioner in (on a quarter tank so that's 16x the normal amount) and let it idle about 10 minutes. But even then I still had some trouble getting going until the engine got enough heat to get the fuel flowing well. Pretty sure I don't have a moisture problem, just crummy ULSD fuel. Never had a problem like this before.

 

[Champane Flight]

Read above..

Well the fuel I bought here in Washington a couple days gelled up on me this morning at +2 degrees. Started up, began driving, only got two blocks before it came to a sputtering halt. I managed to idle home in 1st gear and put a 4x extra dose of fuel conditioner in (on a quarter tank so that's 16x the normal amount) and let it idle about 10 minutes. But even then I still had some trouble getting going until the engine got enough heat to get the fuel flowing well. Pretty sure I don't have a moisture problem, just crummy ULSD fuel. Never had a problem like this before.

I would be looking to keep your tank topped off in cold weather, I would also be almost sure you have moisture, if not you are running someones summer fuel. . Other than the sulfer level there is little difference in ULSD and HSD, one has lubricity added, one has sulfer. .

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If it is moisture then it seems ULSD is more moisture sensitive or more readily attracts moisture than the old stuff. I doubt I had a moisture issue since this fillup was all burned at temps well below freezing, and here in the desert the RH hardly rises above 20-30%. Once a filter is affected by moisture you have to change it to solve the problem, but after adding all the Amalgamated to the tank and driving it a little it runs like a top.

 

[tgordon]

Gelling fuel?

At what temp. do we have to worry about this?

It's been 0 to 20 degrees here in N. WI for past week or so, and I havn't driven my 12V.

It's sits outside.

I filled it with #2 locally about 10 days ago. (I havn't seen any #1 around here yet. )

Do I need to add anti-gell, or do the local gas stations have it in there already?

This is my first winter here, what do I need to do?

Thanks for any advice on this, Ray

PS:

KCraft,

Thanks for the thread on this. It's all kind of caught me by surprise.

I haven't had to worry about it yet and have operated as cold as -11 this winter. Just get it from a reputable place. The co-op I fill from does a 70/30 blend for winter and had a add another pump so I am guessing they go through enough I don't need to worry.

 

[Dr.Bob]

Just talked with my oil man today, and he said that the fuel here (montana) has been gelling at +8º. not good since it was -18º last night.

 

[kenny61]

Sometimes you just get a crappy load. I always buy from the same 3 or 4 places. Every 2 or 3 years I will gel up at temps that were not a problem a tank load before. The worse that happens is that I pull over and keep the revs up to a little over 1k for 2-5 minutes and away I go

 

[icman95]

Kenny's got it. Sometimes you just get a bad load. At work, we go through between 7k and 8k gallons a week for our fleet. About 6 or 7 years ago we had a bad load delivered to our tank. The stuff was coming out of the pump kinda funky and the drivers were complaining. After seeing a few guys in front of me try to fuel I didn't pump any and most of the rest of us didn't either. The stuff was moving so slow out of the nozzle, it would have taken forever to fill up anyway. Turns out that the producer didn't add and anti-gel to the load or do whatever it is they do to make it work in the winter. My boss threw a pail of anti-gel into the tank and all was well. This is the only time in the 11 1/2 years I've been with this company that this has happened. Just a bad load of fuel, but not too often.

 

[GAmes]

... ... ... ... one uses sulfer for lubricity. .

I was with you until that statement. Credibility lost.

 

[BigEasy]

Exactly...

 

[Champane Flight]

What?

I was with you until that statement. Credibility lost.

What don't you believe? Why do you think lubricity concerns were so much greater after the introduction of ULSD? Lubricity standards must be met under both fuels, sulfer was/is a lubricity factor. .

 

[steved]

What don't you believe? Why do you think lubricity concerns were so much greater after the introduction of ULSD? Lubricity standards must be met under both fuels, sulfer was/is a lubricity factor. .

What he means is that the process that removes sulfur causes the loss of lubrication, but that sulfur itself is not a lubricant (it is a contaminant in fuel).

 

[GAmes]

What he means is that the process that removes sulfur causes the loss of lubrication, but that sulfur itself is not a lubricant (it is a contaminant in fuel).

Exactly. Thankyou.



It also seems that everyone has forgotten that California and Canada went to exclusive ULSD long before the rest of the U. S. There wasn't a "lubricity concern" until some internet expert (who apparently flunked high school chemistry) started the rumor that sulphur is a lubricant. It even was propagated by at least one lubricant manufacturer's web site.