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Good News: Chrysler to be exchanged...

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Chrysler to shut down

and not sold or merged with GM.

Quoted Verbatim from http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2008/12/cerberus-chrysler-to-be-exchanged/

According to a new Automotive News article, Cerberus is planning to give away its entire stake in Chrysler - roughly 80% of the company - to labor and creditors.

Bush's loans require Chrysler to provide half of its obligation to the UAW Employee Beneficiary Association trust with equity. In addition, Cerberus has said it would exchange UAW agreement with severe pay and benefits reductions for equity. Cerberus is also offering equity to creditors in return for lowering of debt.

As a result, Chrysler would be entirely owned by labor, creditors, and Daimler. It appears that the UAW (including the health-care fund) would have the most equity. The move leaves Cerberus with Chrysler Financial, which is likely to be a strong profit-maker when the economy turns around; the private equity firm has already agreed to invest the next $2 billion in Chrysler Financial profits in Chrysler, LLC.

Cerberus also noted that it had not invested more in Chrysler because its charter limits how much it can invest in any one organization.

The move should put aside rumors of merging with General Motors and being purchased by a Chinese company.
 
This ought to be interesting to see, so now the labor union will be negotiating with itself for reductions in pay and benefits. Maybe they will finally see what a bind they put all the big 3 in. Who in the world has a job bank that pays you almost all your wages if your laid off.
 
I don't think this is going to work. Basically the UAW will make it a nonprofit. They will not know how to do anything but drain all the money out to their members. It will just go bankrupt later. They will not understand that you need profits to invest in the future products and that the products matter.
 
I don't think this is going to work. Basically the UAW will make it a nonprofit. They will not know how to do anything but drain all the money out to their members. It will just go bankrupt later. They will not understand that you need profits to invest in the future products and that the products matter.

Actually, this may be the best thing to happen for the unions, as it will require them to face the reality of the business, and frankly, it will also reduce the bloated HR costs in the white collar force as well. The UAW won't be able to blame "management" or "the board of directors. " Peoples' standard of living will go down for sure, but at least they won't be on the street or on welfare, and maybe we avert a 1929 level depression. As much as I sometimes despise unions (mostly due to what happened to IHC) I don't see them as the monolithic organization that is irreformable or stupid. They'll either succeed in this or they won't, but at least they have the chance to do it and keep their jobs, at least some of them.
 
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We gotta face the FACT that all this is merely another step down the path of an agonizing and slow death for Chrysler - another slash in the "Death of a thousand cuts". :(



All cerebrus wanted to begin with was to operate (and benefit from!) the most profitable portion of Chrysler - and eventually dump all the rest.



Looks like they achieved their goal!
 
We gotta face the FACT that all this is merely another step down the path of an agonizing and slow death for Chrysler - another slash in the "Death of a thousand cuts". :(



All cerebrus wanted to begin with was to operate (and benefit from!) the most profitable portion of Chrysler - and eventually dump all the rest.



Looks like they achieved their goal!



Maybe, maybe not, but at least it won't be chopped up by GM. And yes, Cerberus got what it wanted, sort of. What they really wanted was GMAC. Time will tell.
 
You all can say all you want to About the union's if it was not for the union's most people would be working for 5 to 6 dollars an hr. Stop and look at what the top people for Banks and Other company's get in bonus a year. this is what has happened to the USA. The large company's have moved to other countries. so they can make more profit. And the hell with us. The less money we make the less tax money for the up keep for the USA. So to keep things up at home they raise our TAX'S. WAKE UP !
 
I dont see how this is good news. I think this is the worst news in awhile. Hell, think Id rather see GM and Chrysler merge than Chrysler handed over.



And I agree, autoworkers are paid too much. No wonder vehicles cost so much. And getting, what, 95% pay even when you arent working? How rediculous is that?
 
I dont see how this is good news. I think this is the worst news in awhile. Hell, think Id rather see GM and Chrysler merge than Chrysler handed over.

How is THAT better than this? THAT is an almost guaranteed disaster for Chrysler, as it's a near guaranteed end to Chrysler and Dodge as brands. Jeep would be the only survivor. This way, the people who work there have a stake in its survival and no one to blame.
 
You all can say all you want to About the union's if it was not for the union's most people would be working for 5 to 6 dollars an hr. Stop and look at what the top people for Banks and Other company's get in bonus a year. this is what has happened to the USA. The large company's have moved to other countries. so they can make more profit. And the hell with us. The less money we make the less tax money for the up keep for the USA. So to keep things up at home they raise our TAX'S. WAKE UP !







Sorry blackbear, I don't agree with anything you are saying. Unions have out lived themselves. They were needed 50, 70 years ago, but not anymore.
 
Right on Grizzly. And its not necessarily true of all unions, but certainly true of the UAW.



It was mainly strong arm union tactics that caused Boeing to start looking at places other than Seattle for the aerospace industry. They still do final assembly here. But any thinking person knows that Boeing looks far into the future. And the future for Boeing is not in Seattle. But thats a story meant for another venue.
 
We gotta face the FACT that all this is merely another step down the path of an agonizing and slow death for Chrysler - another slash in the "Death of a thousand cuts". :(



All cerebrus wanted to begin with was to operate (and benefit from!) the most profitable portion of Chrysler - and eventually dump all the rest.



Looks like they achieved their goal!



Ditto ,

My opinion is Don't bail out any of them , They'd made bad choices And ran it into the ground With their bad products, If I owned a business And it was going bankrupt I would not expect the government to bail me out !!! Nor would they !!

They should be no different. We're just creating A bigger deficit For our children's children . That's my 2¢
 
You all can say all you want to About the union's if it was not for the union's most people would be working for 5 to 6 dollars an hr.



How much, on average, does a Toyota or Honda employee make?



I live in a town with a massive UAW presence at Delphi. When Delphi went bankrupt, the local UAW representative went on the local news and threatened us by saying - direct quote - "... what do you think is going to happen to the crime rate around here if this plant closes?".



That was the end of any sympathy I ever had for the UAW.



Ryan
 
Wages similar, base benefits similar, no UAW overhead

From Detroit Free Press



The UAW is losing its edge in pay compared with non-unionized U. S. assembly plant workers for foreign companies, even as Detroit automakers aim for deeper benefit cuts to trim their losses.



In at least one case last year, workers for a foreign automaker for the first time averaged more in base pay and bonuses than UAW members working for domestic automakers, according to an economist for the Center for Automotive Research and figures supplied to the Free Press by auto companies.



In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U. S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U. S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U. S. operations.



Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are not far behind Toyota and UAW pay levels. Comparable wages have long been one way foreign companies fight off UAW organizing efforts.



But Toyota workers' pay topping that of UAW members comes as the union faces contract negotiations this year with struggling Detroit companies that will seek billions in concessions, partly because they face higher costs for retiree health care and pensions than their foreign-owned competitors.



Who's to blame?



UAW Region 8 Director Gary Casteel said if Toyota workers were paid more than union workers last year, the blame lies with Detroit's auto executives. The companies have lost market share because of past mistakes, which have translated into fewer bonuses for workers, said Casteel, who is on the union's executive board.



"Our profit-sharing formula, I know, is better than theirs -- if our vehicles are selling," Casteel said.



Ron Lare, a 59-year-old Ford employee on pre-retirement leave, said Toyota workers shouldn't get too excited about their wages because bonuses fluctuate. The only thing consistent, Lare said, is union protection.



"The floor beneath their feet is basically what the UAW has won," said Lare of Detroit, who has worked at Ford for 28 1/2 years. "If the UAW gets beaten down, their pay is going to come down. You let there be a real recession in the auto industry -- that bonus won't be there for Toyota, either. "



Union perks vs. nonunion perks



The pay comparisons reflect the relative profitability of the foreign and domestic companies more than shortcomings of the UAW. But the situation chips at the argument that workers united in solidarity can get better wages, benefits and job security -- especially as the UAW shrinks and growing foreign companies continue to ward off organizing efforts.



"How do you convince someone you're better off with the protection of a union when they're making more money than the union employee?" asked Alfred McLean, a 66-year-old hourly UAW member at General Motors Corp. 's Warren Tech Center. He has 28 years of experience.



Workers for foreign automakers don't pay union dues, but they do share the costs of insurance and retirement plans. UAW-represented autoworkers get health insurance and a full pension after 30 years -- valuable perks they will fight to keep during contract negotiations this year.



But even accounting for Toyota employees' health care spending -- $700 per year on average, according to the company -- the Georgetown workers still made more in 2006.



General Motors Corp. , which lost $10. 6 billion in 2005 and didn't issue profit-sharing checks last year, paid its production workers an average of $27 an hour, GM spokesman Daniel Flores said. That would be a base of about $54,000 a year, based on a 2,000-hour work year. The $30 average at Toyota's Georgetown plant, which includes a bonus, equals $60,000 a year.



Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group representatives said GM's base pay figures are similar to theirs. Only Chrysler, which had a 2005 profit, paid a bonus last year. The $650 bonus was not enough to surpass Toyota's pay.



Unknown in the calculation is overtime, which boosts UAW workers' pay. The auto companies would not release overtime data.



Lack of overtime hurts



Ron Harbour, president of Harbour Consulting and the publisher of a respected ranking of plant efficiency, said domestic overtime is dropping because of improved quality and recent production cuts.



"Because there was so much overtime for so many years, they got used to that level of pay," Harbour said. "And it built the economy around here that's collapsed so much -- second homes, boats, snowmobiles and all of that. "



Toyota's bonuses are comparable to the record profit-sharing checks earned by Chrysler and Ford workers in the late 1990s. That puts the pay of Toyota's workers ahead of that of UAW workers for the first time, said Sean McAlinden, chief economist for the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.



But when massive profits rolled in, Detroit executives squandered them, he said.



"There were certainly years back then at the profit peak of the truck boom when we could gaily march out the door and buy Volvo, or Jaguar, or Saab -- brilliant moves -- with our truck profits, rather than invest in hybrids," McAlinden quipped about GM's and Ford's spending decisions.



GM's aim is to resume profit-sharing, Flores said.



"When profit is generated in the U. S. , employees share in the profit," he said.



When asked about salaried workers earning bonuses because of UAW sacrifices last week, Ford CEO Alan Mulally said that all employees must be compensated competitively.



The 'union threat effect'



Harley Shaiken, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who specializes in labor issues, said Toyota's high wages are somewhat expected.



"Toyota pays high wages in part to avoid the UAW," Shaiken said, adding that economists would refer to Toyota's high wages as the "union threat effect," meaning companies pay union-comparable wages to fend off organizing efforts and the risk of a strike.



"But what Toyota inadvertently shows," he added, "is that you can compete paying higher wages. "



Assembly workers for Detroit automakers last year remained a bit ahead of Honda's U. S. hourly workers, who made an average $24. 25 an hour, or $26. 20 with the $4,485 bonus they received. In November, Honda paid bonuses for the 21st consecutive year, the longest streak in U. S. auto history, said Ed Miller, Honda spokesman.



Nissan workers are paid $24 an hour in Mississippi and $26 an hour in Tennessee, but company officials would not disclose employee bonuses.



Hyundai Motor Co. pays its U. S. production workers less than other automakers. Wages at its Alabama plant start at $14 an hour and grow to $21 an hour after two years on the job, according to a January 2004 company release. Hyundai declined to say whether those wages have increased since then.



But the UAW's Casteel, who is working to organize autoworkers in southern states, said the UAW's recruiting strategy of comparing union and nonunion checks doesn't work in less-developed parts of the South. In Alabama and Mississippi, for instance, the U. S. Department of Labor says wages average less than $11 an hour.



"If you start looking at where they put these plants, they go out to the most desolate places you've ever been in your life," Casteel, an Alabama native, said of foreign automakers. "And they make sure there are no other competitive wages with any other industry. You'll drive through these piney woods for an hour and all of a sudden you run upon this major manufacturing facility. "



Copyright (c) 2007, Detroit Free Press
 
It would seem we need another war between the north and the south, since we whipped the south once the second time should be even easier!:-laf

The problem seems to be that the younger people do not think the union is necessary as it was something their parents and grandparents either worked in or was jealous that they were not in. During the 50's and early 60's many southern states lost workers who moved north to take good paying manufacturing jobs. The reason the north had these good paying jobs was logistics and the work ethic of the north. The southern states wanted to keep the people less educated and working for lower pay. The unions were formed because of the same things we are fighting today, greed, Henry Ford was one of the most bigoted men of power of his time. He believed his workers were his slaves, he hired goons to keep the unions from doing any organizing activity. Workers got no breaks and blacks could only work in the basement or menial jobs Henry thought white men should not do. Every job today has come at the sweat and hard work of people who risked there jobs and often their reputations so that we have a living wage and dignity in the work place. Everyone wants to blame the workers for the car mess but I ask you is the CEO worth 300 to 500 times what the working persons salary is? Are the thieves in government who give themselves pay raises at midnight and without voting on them worth what we pay them? Is BP's profits of billions in a quarter OK but a worker making $28. 00 an hour is to much? The unions have problems much like management as they worry more about their jobs than the people they represent but the concept of the unions is still very important and the workers of today and tomorrow will need them or a newer revised and improved version of them.

Fred
 
Everyone wants to blame the workers for the car mess but I ask you is the CEO worth 300 to 500 times what the working persons salary is? Are the thieves in government who give themselves pay raises at midnight and without voting on them worth what we pay them? Is BP's profits of billions in a quarter OK but a worker making $28. 00 an hour is to much? The unions have problems much like management as they worry more about their jobs than the people they represent but the concept of the unions is still very important and the workers of today and tomorrow will need them or a newer revised and improved version of them.



You make some very good points here about unions. And you're right, Ford was a horrible racist and anti-Semite.



I suppose the root problem isn't with the concept of the union, but rather the modern management of the union. When you have union leadership making threats of physical violence if his demands are not met, there's a real problem. Over time, the union work ethic (as it were) has been corrupted and bloated.



The union is not completely at fault for the state of American automobile manufacturing, but they certainly played a significant role. The burden of failure rests at least 50% with the union (the remainder being the fault of car company management).



Ryan
 
Yep, that outsourcing in seeking lower costs has really gone well for Boeing's commercial aircraft sector hasn't it? The cost to the corporation for assembly errors and substandard workmanship from the non indigenous parts resulted in an aircraft that has been delayed longer than any other in Boeing's history.

The result is that Boeing has lost 100's of millions of dollars on the 787 program before it even takes to the air for the first time. Which, is now projected to be 2. 5 years after it was supposed to.



That combined with a 2 month strike will cost the company close to a billion dollars before the 787 is in the air.



How many years worth of wages and benefits would that have covered for Boeing's employees?
 
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