Well here is how it plays out, we pay membership to a website. Our rights are to post/read and to follow the rules put fourth. The owners of the website get to make all the calls on what is allowed and what is not. If we don't like it we can do one of two things, leave or stay. I have chosen to stay for a long time because I have got more help here than 100X the dues I have paid. I have made some good friends and seen quite a few people come and go. In the end TDR is not a democracy.
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Letter that ATS sent to the EPA, Boycott ATS - Thread Moved
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Censorship
I am truly not trying to be a censorship czar.
And no one - and I mean no one - from ATS has called me and asked me to remove the thread.
I just feel that whenever someone asserts that material has been stolen or misappropriated - regardless of whether I believe it or not - I have to take the ethical road and remove it.
Perhaps my ethics are incorrect, but I am very vocal about my disdain for the press when it publishes shocking headlines with no real regard to the truth or the ultimate harm the headline will do to innocent people (because it sells). Then once the truth is learned, a retraction or the truth is published on page 46 in very small type in the lower right-hand corner of the publication.
This is a tough position because I understand everyone - including me - loves to watch a train wreck. By taking this position, I understand I may actually lose business. But this is what I would want another website to do if someone stole or misappropriated information from the TDR and published it. And it is what I would do for any one of you if the same happened to you.
Robin
TDR Admin
I am truly not trying to be a censorship czar.
And no one - and I mean no one - from ATS has called me and asked me to remove the thread.
I just feel that whenever someone asserts that material has been stolen or misappropriated - regardless of whether I believe it or not - I have to take the ethical road and remove it.
Perhaps my ethics are incorrect, but I am very vocal about my disdain for the press when it publishes shocking headlines with no real regard to the truth or the ultimate harm the headline will do to innocent people (because it sells). Then once the truth is learned, a retraction or the truth is published on page 46 in very small type in the lower right-hand corner of the publication.
This is a tough position because I understand everyone - including me - loves to watch a train wreck. By taking this position, I understand I may actually lose business. But this is what I would want another website to do if someone stole or misappropriated information from the TDR and published it. And it is what I would do for any one of you if the same happened to you.
Robin
TDR Admin
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I think it needs to be "aired". If it was "hacked" or "stolen" as the ats guys claim, the fact is the letter still existed and SOMEONE had the intent of using the power of government to get a one-up on their competition. That is just WRONG. It is a sissy and lousy way to do business and a lousy, hard blow to our industry, our hobby and our lifestyle. It should be published, whether it was "stolen" or not, the fact is it was WRITTEN and nobody will write something like that if they do not have at least some intention of sending it. It deserves to be seen and read here, as is being done elsewhere. By the way, I am NOT am member on ANY of the "free" sites, so if this had never come up here, I would have probably never known. I really do not want to join any other site but if I must in order to get unbiased information, I will.
Yep. I posted the letter and it once again "disappeared". To be "fair", I was just about to post the "rebuttal" from ATS but the thread mysteriously disappeared again... . Looks like if you want to get an unbiased viewpoint, you must go to the other sites, of which until now, I have never been a member of. TDR with ATS is like the "mainstream" media is to B H Obama... cover up the shady side and God forbid, don't publish ANYTHING until it is 100% PROVEN to be true!!!
#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!No wonder there is so little activity on TDR anymore, yet the "other" sites are booming... No wonder there is so little viewership on CBS, NBC, ABC, yet newstalk radio and Fox News is booming!
Here: It is ALL OVER the "other" sites. I will just post the "Dogpile" search information from "ATS, EPA". Don't try to click the one from TDR though... It has been censored out of access! #@$%!
ats epa - Dogpile Web Search
ats epa - Dogpile Web Search
Seems a LOT of "former" TDR members are on the "Competition Diesel" site now. I just joined it. There is a HUGE discussion about this issue over there... .
ATS owned up as to who drafted it and to my knowledge has not requested it to be removed from any postings as "stolen email".
If this was non intentional, I would have fired the GM for drafting such a letter.
Doesn't matter who stole or leaked the info, the info was drafted so the gun was loaded.
And I would vigorously report the firing to all sites posting the letter in addition to requesting the letter be removed from postings as the one responsible is no longer employed by ATS.
Since this doesn't seem to be the case it appears the letter was intentional, didn't need to be officially sent cuz its already out there now so really no reason to remove it. They are not hiding anything.
If this was non intentional, I would have fired the GM for drafting such a letter.
Doesn't matter who stole or leaked the info, the info was drafted so the gun was loaded.
And I would vigorously report the firing to all sites posting the letter in addition to requesting the letter be removed from postings as the one responsible is no longer employed by ATS.
Since this doesn't seem to be the case it appears the letter was intentional, didn't need to be officially sent cuz its already out there now so really no reason to remove it. They are not hiding anything.
If anyone wants a copy of the letter without going outside the TDR send me an email.
To me its not about watching a train wreck, rather, its about knowing who is trying to sell me out as a diesel enthusiast and cause me harm, whether it be financially or other, and I will do what is reasonably ethical and legal to support others knowing this same type of info. I think that these feelings are the true sentiment of most TDR members, and not that we are short on entertainment and need to watch a company go down.
To me its not about watching a train wreck, rather, its about knowing who is trying to sell me out as a diesel enthusiast and cause me harm, whether it be financially or other, and I will do what is reasonably ethical and legal to support others knowing this same type of info. I think that these feelings are the true sentiment of most TDR members, and not that we are short on entertainment and need to watch a company go down.
YUP - I suspect most of us are here to obtain, and be involved in the exchange of diesel related info - that covers products, services, and business operations in general - both the GOOD, and the BAD!
Much of what is surfacing on this issue - and on this board - pretty much relates to the USA perception of individual fairness and equality. Many foreigners, living and functioning in foreign countries such a China, Iran and similar, are only too aware of the inequitable constraints as to what they are supposed to think, and what they are allowed to say and do.
While some may choose to take this personally and poorly, the following *personal opinion* is not specifically directed at this board, or it's operators - just a personal view on Internet board operations in general - because it DOES apply here!
In this country, we have far greater freedom and equality that we both expect, and insist upon receiving - and some of us can get pretty torqued up if/when we suspect we are not receiving our fair share of reasonable, equal treatment.
Most Internet boards have clearly posted rules of conduct that supposedly apply to all - sponsors and rank and file members alike - and since it's the board owners/operators who establish these guidelines, it's pretty reasonable to expect that leadership to also be included as subject to those same rules. "Do as I SAY, not as I DO" doesn't sit well with most in this country, and most forms of Dictatorship in this country tend to gather rapid and intense opposition and resistance - regardless of the specific board, business or group.
Favoritism - special treatment of one individual or group compared to another - is something most of us abhor and resist - and I'm sure many of us have either experienced it or witnessed it at one time or another - and it ain't a pretty sight!
If "Jack" repeatedly, and against clearly posted rules of conduct, insults me personally and publicly - with NO apparent response or control from the operators of a board - and YET, when *I* eventually defend myself, and reply in the same manner, and DO immediately suffer the wrath and "discipline" of the operators - am I entitled to feel treated unfairly?
I've always thought so!
An "umbrella" of standards and protection that are only randomly applied, or only provide protection to "special" individuals and groups, is largely what is creating much of the conversation in this specific issue - if ATS is to be protected in regards as to what they claim to be personal, privileged information, and if their reputation is seen in need of "appropriate protection" - are individual members entitled to expect the same level of consideration?
*I* would certainly think so - but on this board, and others, I have seen and experienced serious inequitable application of board rules, seen my own personal mailbox messages manipulated and deleted - all by individuals who otherwise expound and profess the grandest of personal standards and ideals of reason and fairness. Shucks - we frequently see and hear of ex-members of other boards, who either were banned, or left boards that were (to the member) operated in an inequitable and unfair manner.
SURE, as a few others in this thread have pointed out, board and business owners CAN choose to operate their boards and businesses any way they choose - they PAY for the ability to do so - but it's NOT good business to treat your customers with contempt and disrespect, nor does it speak well for their personal character and integrity - as the business(es) here are experiencing.
AGAIN, just a personal observation and opinion - no offense intended to any member, business or group...
YUP - I suspect most of us are here to obtain, and be involved in the exchange of diesel related info - that covers products, services, and business operations in general - both the GOOD, and the BAD!
Much of what is surfacing on this issue - and on this board - pretty much relates to the USA perception of individual fairness and equality. Many foreigners, living and functioning in foreign countries such a China, Iran and similar, are only too aware of the inequitable constraints as to what they are supposed to think, and what they are allowed to say and do.
While some may choose to take this personally and poorly, the following *personal opinion* is not specifically directed at this board, or it's operators - just a personal view on Internet board operations in general - because it DOES apply here!
In this country, we have far greater freedom and equality that we both expect, and insist upon receiving - and some of us can get pretty torqued up if/when we suspect we are not receiving our fair share of reasonable, equal treatment.
Most Internet boards have clearly posted rules of conduct that supposedly apply to all - sponsors and rank and file members alike - and since it's the board owners/operators who establish these guidelines, it's pretty reasonable to expect that leadership to also be included as subject to those same rules. "Do as I SAY, not as I DO" doesn't sit well with most in this country, and most forms of Dictatorship in this country tend to gather rapid and intense opposition and resistance - regardless of the specific board, business or group.
Favoritism - special treatment of one individual or group compared to another - is something most of us abhor and resist - and I'm sure many of us have either experienced it or witnessed it at one time or another - and it ain't a pretty sight!
If "Jack" repeatedly, and against clearly posted rules of conduct, insults me personally and publicly - with NO apparent response or control from the operators of a board - and YET, when *I* eventually defend myself, and reply in the same manner, and DO immediately suffer the wrath and "discipline" of the operators - am I entitled to feel treated unfairly?
I've always thought so!
An "umbrella" of standards and protection that are only randomly applied, or only provide protection to "special" individuals and groups, is largely what is creating much of the conversation in this specific issue - if ATS is to be protected in regards as to what they claim to be personal, privileged information, and if their reputation is seen in need of "appropriate protection" - are individual members entitled to expect the same level of consideration?
*I* would certainly think so - but on this board, and others, I have seen and experienced serious inequitable application of board rules, seen my own personal mailbox messages manipulated and deleted - all by individuals who otherwise expound and profess the grandest of personal standards and ideals of reason and fairness. Shucks - we frequently see and hear of ex-members of other boards, who either were banned, or left boards that were (to the member) operated in an inequitable and unfair manner.
SURE, as a few others in this thread have pointed out, board and business owners CAN choose to operate their boards and businesses any way they choose - they PAY for the ability to do so - but it's NOT good business to treat your customers with contempt and disrespect, nor does it speak well for their personal character and integrity - as the business(es) here are experiencing.
AGAIN, just a personal observation and opinion - no offense intended to any member, business or group...
Very well said and exactly the reason some boards are booming and others, who use excessive censorship or bias are losing membership. I do not plan to cancel my TDR membership, but until this incident, I was not a member of any other site. I have now joined two others. I will continue to use TDR, but will now also use the others. This is bad business practice and in business, it is survival of the fittest. You must provide what the consumers want or fail...
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Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
Gary - I assure you that your personal mailbox messages on THIS board have never been manipulated or deleted - I don't know where you are talking about but it definitely isn't here. I can think of 2 cases where we have ever even looked at anyones private messages and both were cases where physical threats had been made and we were looking into them.
On this issue we're dealing with a letter that was allegedly drawn up to a government agency that spelled out specific companies and their business practices. A letter that people are mad about because it will hurt those companies and individuals using those companies products. The company where this letter originated from alleges that it was never sent but was stolen from their email box. Now regardless of whether it was or wasn't - how does having that letter that people don't want out there available for public viewing help anyone? If that letter was not sent to the EPA and they aren't aware of it and having it posted here and they happen across it, then it would hurt those other companies that you guys want to protect!
On the censorship deal - I highly doubt you'll find another forum out there that censors as little as we do. In the time I've been the lead moderator of the board we've booted or temporarily banned less than a dozen people. Outside of posts removed for profanity I'd say we average around 3-4 posts removed per MONTH - out of 10's of thousands. We try hard to apply the rules as fairly and evenly as humanly possible - while at the same time giving as much leeway as humanly possible. We generally let things go unless they become a major issue and will clamp down at those times that are necessary. The alternative is to be a censorship nazi and heavily apply all rules each and every time - I don't think any of us wants that.
On this issue we're dealing with a letter that was allegedly drawn up to a government agency that spelled out specific companies and their business practices. A letter that people are mad about because it will hurt those companies and individuals using those companies products. The company where this letter originated from alleges that it was never sent but was stolen from their email box. Now regardless of whether it was or wasn't - how does having that letter that people don't want out there available for public viewing help anyone? If that letter was not sent to the EPA and they aren't aware of it and having it posted here and they happen across it, then it would hurt those other companies that you guys want to protect!
On the censorship deal - I highly doubt you'll find another forum out there that censors as little as we do. In the time I've been the lead moderator of the board we've booted or temporarily banned less than a dozen people. Outside of posts removed for profanity I'd say we average around 3-4 posts removed per MONTH - out of 10's of thousands. We try hard to apply the rules as fairly and evenly as humanly possible - while at the same time giving as much leeway as humanly possible. We generally let things go unless they become a major issue and will clamp down at those times that are necessary. The alternative is to be a censorship nazi and heavily apply all rules each and every time - I don't think any of us wants that.
I seriously debated the wisdom of responding to this - but have decided the issue and question deserved a reply - hope I am not wrong...
Steve, I won't make any more an issue of this than I already have - I enjoy this board above all others, and value my ability to participate both by receiving, and sharing assistance to other members.
BUT, that said, it WAS this board where PM's to me that were of a serious nature that would have become a potential embarrasment to the sender, suddenly disappeared from my private mailbox. Fortunately, I keep all such sensitive material safely in an offline place, and simply replaced them where they belonged - just in case they are ever needed for future use.
I have also been exposed to situations where I was singled out for rules infringements - and threats of "specialized" treatment and applications of board rules - all in the very same forums where I was under off-topic, abusive personal attacks by others who apparently were given a pass for the exact same infractions I was being called out for after I got tired of the BS and waiting for proper attention by board owners and members whose responsibility it is to deal with those situations, and finally took my own action in my defense!
Yes, on THIS board, and I can easily provide pointers to the threads these events took place upon, as well as the PM's I was sent in each of those instances.
Regardless of other opinions some may have of me, I don't lie, I always attempt to make accurate statements - often with data and pictures to support my claims - as I can in this case - BUT, I have absolutely NO desire to take this any further, it's not in the best interest of this board, or the members, or me personally. And I value the board, my own participation, and the ability to continue that participation, far too much to transform this thread into a personal P&M session.
I sincerely am NOT active on this board to raise Hell - but I'm also not here to be used as the passive target of the abusive few who seemingly ARE here primarily to be abusive and raise Hell! :-{}
I value your own function and dedication here, both as a professional, and as a committment to the board owners and members alike - and I think that for the most part, my own activity is also appreciated - let's just drop it, and leave it at that...
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Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
Gary - then you should have contacted me regarding those PM's because it had to have been a situation where someone hacked into the site to remove them. Because I am literally the ONLY person here that has the access to and knowledge to remove PM's from someone's mailbox. The only way I can do that is through mysql directly. I can't even go into the control panel and look at someone's PM's and everyone's passwords are encrypted so that we cannot even read someone's password. The only other way it could be done would be for someone that has admin access - Robin, myself, and 2 other people at the TDR offices - to change your password and log into your account, and then you wouldn't have been able to log in to your account with your old password. I have NEVER EVER deleted a PM from anyone's mailbox and as I said I'm the only person with the knowledge to do so that has that access. If anything like that ever happens again PLEASE let me know because it means there is a security issue and I need to look into it.
Steve, no problem - no hard feelings felt or intended - nor do I know how it happened or by whom. But I *do* know that the event it all revolved around was unnecessarily arbitrary, and as selective an application of rules bending as it gets, but I detest, to the extreme, personal confrontation and controversy, and will respond no further on this subject unless forced...
Regards
Gary
Regards
Gary
It should be noted that ATS's lawyer, who also happens to be their operations manager, is the one who wrote the letter. Wouldn't want to be posting up incorrect information in a thread that is pertaining to a thread that was removed due to incorrect information now would we?
That is exactly why I posted the link to the other sites. (AFTER the original post was "moved" [hidden]) AND my REposting of the letter was DELETED!
The truth is getting out there on the other sites, yet being covered up on TDR, mainly because the guilty party (who possessed the letter that was "stolen") is an advertiser on this site. I am not trying to necessarily pass judgment on ATS, but to even possess a letter like that, already addressed to the necessary person at EPA, seems a little shady to me. There was some kind of intent there and a lawyer does not just dream up things to say with that kind of detail... . then the lawyer is part of the suspect company... hummmmmmm I smell a lot of stink here!! Unfortunately, it cannot even be discussed here or it will be censored ("moved" or deleted).There was a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE thread about it on CumminsForum and it was moved as well. When I say huge I mean 8000 views and hundreds of posts per day when it first came out.
Personally, I think that since all of the diesel sites removed the threads at pretty much the same time, a letter was probably sent by the same ATS lawyer who wrote the letter, to all of the sites, threatening legal action against them, as well as the person who "stole" the letter.
Anyway, I got my stuff I wanted from Geno's Garage for Christmas so I am moving on!!!!
Personally, I think that since all of the diesel sites removed the threads at pretty much the same time, a letter was probably sent by the same ATS lawyer who wrote the letter, to all of the sites, threatening legal action against them, as well as the person who "stole" the letter.
Anyway, I got my stuff I wanted from Geno's Garage for Christmas so I am moving on!!!!
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DId you guys read the following letter, written by ATS computer guy, insulting their customers?
My name is Joel Richards. Many of you know who I am. I'm the IT guy at ATS whom some of you think should be replaced/fired/burned at the stake, etc… I'm a contractor for ATS and have been for over 5 years. I'm the one responsible for the ATS website, email servers, application servers, among other various things.
I'm sending this out because I feel that somebody should give you all a life-lesson. Might as well be me. I'm not posting on behalf of ATS. I'm posting on behalf of me. I wasn't asked to post, nor was I asked not to.
Read fast, as this will surely be deleted in short order... Copy and paste on other forums at your hearts content as this will be the only forum I post to since it all started here with someone thinking he was doing the world a whole bunch of good. For those of you whom this does not apply to, please forgive my use of broad terms such as “all” in the following text.
I love the fact that the people posting this rhetoric use the “I'm not sure if this is true, but... ” line of crap. Here's a new concept for you. Find out if it's true before you post, eh? Wow - hard concept to grasp sometimes I guess. I'm also aware that there will be pieces of this letter that are pulled out and will be used out of context - it's to be expected, but oh, well. It will be interesting to see who's afraid to post it in it's entirety and who isn't.
So, I begin:
The vast majority of you are propagandizing hypocrites! You sit behind your keyboards and pass judgment on ATS and Clint, but you don't know 1/10th of what goes on at ATS or any other place of business in which you deal with.
So, Clint admits that the letter was written. He could have just as easily denied the whole thing - after all, only Clint and Stewart even knew the letter existed. Everybody at ATS was as stunned as I was when the letter hit the forums. Clint admitted the letter was written, and also said that he shot down the idea immediately. What do you all take from this? You don't take the fact that he ADAMANTLY said not to proceed with the letter at all, but rather you just look at the admittance of the letter being in existence to add to your condemnation of him and ATS. What else would anybody expect from a bunch of forum rats. Sometimes I wonder why I'm no longer active on forums... Thank you all for reminding me!
Then you all condemn ATS with the “lawyers don't do things like this on their own” bull****. Are you so stupid that you can't figure out from the many posts about it that Stewart is the OPERATIONS MANAGER of ATS! Of course he knows what's going on with EVERY ASPECT of the company - and he's an attorney to boot. He serves multiple roles in the company, but some of you obviously can't comprehend that. For the past two years Stewart has attended every CARB/EPA/SEMA meeting with Clint so that ATS could try to help relax the EPA's rules on diesel emissions - for the benefit of the entire diesel community! How stupid can you be??!! The difference between stupidity and idiocy is simply this: idiots don't have the capacity to learn, therefore they are doomed to an idiots' existence - stupid people, on the other hand, have the capacity to learn but they refuse to because they are lazy and would rather have others do the thinking and learning for them. Open your eyes and you'll see what the hell is going on here, or keep them closed and continue to be lead around by the invisible noose around your neck like sheep being lead to slaughter. The choice is yours - seriously.
So now we get the “I don't buy that Clint's email was hacked” bullcrap. I'll enlighten you as to some of those things at ATS that you aren't aware of. Clint trusts the management of ATS with privileged information - he trusts that team to the extent that ALL OF THEM KNOW HIS PASSWORDS for his email, domain, etc… Imagine that! That's one of the many ways he's helped by his management team to run ATS - you're all fools if you think he runs this company all by himself. Some of the people that were management at ATS are no longer around. You constantly bring up ex-ATS employees that are disgruntled. It's no secret that there is a high level of animosity between those ex-employees and ATS. Unfortunately, Clint hasn't changed any passwords until just last week when it was discovered that his email was compromised. You're all ****** that this letter, which was privileged and confidential, was released on the forums. You're ****** that Clint is upset for people finding out what was one person's thoughts on a specific situation. Don't you think he has a right to be upset that an idea he said no to is out there being used to discredit him? Are all of you so daft that you can't see what the hell is going on here? So, the person who ILLEGALLY compromised Clint's email decided to grab a copy of something he thought would bury ATS. It was sent around to everyone under the sun so that numerous people could again attempt to discredit ATS to the best of their ability - but you're all ok with that person sending the email…
So you're all ****** off at Clint. You're saying that the letter was “leaked to the forums on purpose” - what kind of glue are you sniffing??!! Now all that ATS has to do is find out what can legally be done to prosecute the person who accessed Clint's email without his knowledge or consent. Make no mistake about the fact that ATS will prosecute the spineless twink who did it. Many of you know who it is, in fact, but you refuse to “rat him out”. You all protect him, yet have him to thank for everybody in the diesel community, including the EPA being made aware of PDI manufacturing and selling DPF delete kits. Yeah, that's right - him, not Clint.
Speaking of DPF delete kits, everyone reading this knows that they are illegal. They will void your manufacturers warranty, and it's against the law to install one of them on your truck - PERIOD! To hell with the “this product for offroad use only”, and the releases that must be signed to purchase one. Why do you think that you have to sign one of those releases anyway? It's because they are ILLEGAL!
Some of you also have stated that Clint has been sending letters to the EPA for a year - putting DDP in Monroe out of business or some such crap. Where's the proof? Show me the letter - show all of us the letter. You can't because IT DOESN'T EXIST! You're just trying to be big man on campus pulling crap out of your rear end to sling and see if it sticks. God, I hate liars. Very few of you demand proof of such crap, but when it comes to ATS and Clint, you need no proof at all because you read it on the Internet... What gives?
How many of you believe that the US Government is hiding aliens down in Roswell? These forums are a conspiracy theorists' wet dream!
Many of you seem top think that this is a carefully concocted marketing plan to advertise the release of the ATS' new DPF system. Perhaps some of you really are idiots and not just plain stupid after all.
Besides all of this, according to the vast majority of you, Clint and ATS doesn't have the ability to design and manufacture products. ATS is the ONLY company to offer their unprecedented warranty on ATS manufactured products. Who is manufacturing all of ATS's products then? Get a clue, people!
So now, thanks to the person who compromised Clint's email, that person has generously provided the EPA with numerous lists via all of the forums of a good many of you who would rather break the law by installing DPF Delete Kits rather than try to help find a solution for the inevitable fact that DPF's are a part of every diesel owners future. He's a hero, and Clint is an ***??? Get real!
Now, all of you are calling for a boycott of ATS - “Let's put Clint out of business” most of you are saying. To hell with the 40 people he employs who don't even know that these forums exist. To hell with all of those employees and their families??!! I mean, Hey! They can just find other jobs in this economy. There are plenty of jobs available for converter builders, dyno operators, transmission builders, shipping personnel - no problem, right? Or the vendors which ATS deals with, or the taxes ATS pays to help bolster the local economy. To hell with all of them due to some spineless twink illegally compromising Clint's email thinking he's doing something good for everyone - copying that email which was stricken down by Clint the second he read it.
Yeah, Clint and ATS is surely the bad guy here - right??? All of you who subscribe to this rhetoric are just simple hypocrites. Nothing more, nothing less.
My name is Joel Richards. Many of you know who I am. I'm the IT guy at ATS whom some of you think should be replaced/fired/burned at the stake, etc… I'm a contractor for ATS and have been for over 5 years. I'm the one responsible for the ATS website, email servers, application servers, among other various things.
I'm sending this out because I feel that somebody should give you all a life-lesson. Might as well be me. I'm not posting on behalf of ATS. I'm posting on behalf of me. I wasn't asked to post, nor was I asked not to.
Read fast, as this will surely be deleted in short order... Copy and paste on other forums at your hearts content as this will be the only forum I post to since it all started here with someone thinking he was doing the world a whole bunch of good. For those of you whom this does not apply to, please forgive my use of broad terms such as “all” in the following text.
I love the fact that the people posting this rhetoric use the “I'm not sure if this is true, but... ” line of crap. Here's a new concept for you. Find out if it's true before you post, eh? Wow - hard concept to grasp sometimes I guess. I'm also aware that there will be pieces of this letter that are pulled out and will be used out of context - it's to be expected, but oh, well. It will be interesting to see who's afraid to post it in it's entirety and who isn't.
So, I begin:
The vast majority of you are propagandizing hypocrites! You sit behind your keyboards and pass judgment on ATS and Clint, but you don't know 1/10th of what goes on at ATS or any other place of business in which you deal with.
So, Clint admits that the letter was written. He could have just as easily denied the whole thing - after all, only Clint and Stewart even knew the letter existed. Everybody at ATS was as stunned as I was when the letter hit the forums. Clint admitted the letter was written, and also said that he shot down the idea immediately. What do you all take from this? You don't take the fact that he ADAMANTLY said not to proceed with the letter at all, but rather you just look at the admittance of the letter being in existence to add to your condemnation of him and ATS. What else would anybody expect from a bunch of forum rats. Sometimes I wonder why I'm no longer active on forums... Thank you all for reminding me!
Then you all condemn ATS with the “lawyers don't do things like this on their own” bull****. Are you so stupid that you can't figure out from the many posts about it that Stewart is the OPERATIONS MANAGER of ATS! Of course he knows what's going on with EVERY ASPECT of the company - and he's an attorney to boot. He serves multiple roles in the company, but some of you obviously can't comprehend that. For the past two years Stewart has attended every CARB/EPA/SEMA meeting with Clint so that ATS could try to help relax the EPA's rules on diesel emissions - for the benefit of the entire diesel community! How stupid can you be??!! The difference between stupidity and idiocy is simply this: idiots don't have the capacity to learn, therefore they are doomed to an idiots' existence - stupid people, on the other hand, have the capacity to learn but they refuse to because they are lazy and would rather have others do the thinking and learning for them. Open your eyes and you'll see what the hell is going on here, or keep them closed and continue to be lead around by the invisible noose around your neck like sheep being lead to slaughter. The choice is yours - seriously.
So now we get the “I don't buy that Clint's email was hacked” bullcrap. I'll enlighten you as to some of those things at ATS that you aren't aware of. Clint trusts the management of ATS with privileged information - he trusts that team to the extent that ALL OF THEM KNOW HIS PASSWORDS for his email, domain, etc… Imagine that! That's one of the many ways he's helped by his management team to run ATS - you're all fools if you think he runs this company all by himself. Some of the people that were management at ATS are no longer around. You constantly bring up ex-ATS employees that are disgruntled. It's no secret that there is a high level of animosity between those ex-employees and ATS. Unfortunately, Clint hasn't changed any passwords until just last week when it was discovered that his email was compromised. You're all ****** that this letter, which was privileged and confidential, was released on the forums. You're ****** that Clint is upset for people finding out what was one person's thoughts on a specific situation. Don't you think he has a right to be upset that an idea he said no to is out there being used to discredit him? Are all of you so daft that you can't see what the hell is going on here? So, the person who ILLEGALLY compromised Clint's email decided to grab a copy of something he thought would bury ATS. It was sent around to everyone under the sun so that numerous people could again attempt to discredit ATS to the best of their ability - but you're all ok with that person sending the email…
So you're all ****** off at Clint. You're saying that the letter was “leaked to the forums on purpose” - what kind of glue are you sniffing??!! Now all that ATS has to do is find out what can legally be done to prosecute the person who accessed Clint's email without his knowledge or consent. Make no mistake about the fact that ATS will prosecute the spineless twink who did it. Many of you know who it is, in fact, but you refuse to “rat him out”. You all protect him, yet have him to thank for everybody in the diesel community, including the EPA being made aware of PDI manufacturing and selling DPF delete kits. Yeah, that's right - him, not Clint.
Speaking of DPF delete kits, everyone reading this knows that they are illegal. They will void your manufacturers warranty, and it's against the law to install one of them on your truck - PERIOD! To hell with the “this product for offroad use only”, and the releases that must be signed to purchase one. Why do you think that you have to sign one of those releases anyway? It's because they are ILLEGAL!
Some of you also have stated that Clint has been sending letters to the EPA for a year - putting DDP in Monroe out of business or some such crap. Where's the proof? Show me the letter - show all of us the letter. You can't because IT DOESN'T EXIST! You're just trying to be big man on campus pulling crap out of your rear end to sling and see if it sticks. God, I hate liars. Very few of you demand proof of such crap, but when it comes to ATS and Clint, you need no proof at all because you read it on the Internet... What gives?
How many of you believe that the US Government is hiding aliens down in Roswell? These forums are a conspiracy theorists' wet dream!
Many of you seem top think that this is a carefully concocted marketing plan to advertise the release of the ATS' new DPF system. Perhaps some of you really are idiots and not just plain stupid after all.
Besides all of this, according to the vast majority of you, Clint and ATS doesn't have the ability to design and manufacture products. ATS is the ONLY company to offer their unprecedented warranty on ATS manufactured products. Who is manufacturing all of ATS's products then? Get a clue, people!
So now, thanks to the person who compromised Clint's email, that person has generously provided the EPA with numerous lists via all of the forums of a good many of you who would rather break the law by installing DPF Delete Kits rather than try to help find a solution for the inevitable fact that DPF's are a part of every diesel owners future. He's a hero, and Clint is an ***??? Get real!
Now, all of you are calling for a boycott of ATS - “Let's put Clint out of business” most of you are saying. To hell with the 40 people he employs who don't even know that these forums exist. To hell with all of those employees and their families??!! I mean, Hey! They can just find other jobs in this economy. There are plenty of jobs available for converter builders, dyno operators, transmission builders, shipping personnel - no problem, right? Or the vendors which ATS deals with, or the taxes ATS pays to help bolster the local economy. To hell with all of them due to some spineless twink illegally compromising Clint's email thinking he's doing something good for everyone - copying that email which was stricken down by Clint the second he read it.
Yeah, Clint and ATS is surely the bad guy here - right??? All of you who subscribe to this rhetoric are just simple hypocrites. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
