MIG versus stick current draw

[rbattelle]

looked like bird poop. probably should have used some 1/8" but i didn't feel like looking for some and i had been there for 16 hours fixing the machine and wanted to get done and go home.

I've heard it said that even the ugliest stick welds are strong, whereas even beautiful MIG welds can be very weak (if not done properly).



Nick - sure would be nice to see a photo of that mill!



Ryan

 

[Coalsmoke]

I've heard it said that even the ugliest stick welds are strong, whereas even beautiful MIG welds can be very weak (if not done properly).



Nick - sure would be nice to see a photo of that mill!



Ryan

I wouldn't put too much weight into that. I have seen lots of pretty stuff come apart, and even more ugly stuff come apart.



As for the 110v mig, if a person plans to do anything over 1/8" steel, get a 220V unit, and PLEASE, don't try to build a trailer hitch or other load-bearing weldament with a 110V mig. Put your money into a used, good quality machine if you don't want to get a new one.

 

[GHarman]

I wouldn't put too much weight into that. I have seen lots of pretty stuff come apart, and even more ugly stuff come apart.



As for the 110v mig, if a person plans to do anything over 1/8" steel, get a 220V unit, and PLEASE, don't try to build a trailer hitch or other load-bearing weldament with a 110V mig. Put your money into a used, good quality machine if you don't want to get a new one.

Coalsmoke is RIGHT! Welding is just that! You fuse two pieces of metal together, with filler metal using SMAW or GMAW. If it falls apart, it was not done correctly. I can demonstrate a beautiful GMA lap "weld" where the vertical member will fall away with a tap of a hammer! That is not a "weld"! GMA only fuses in a very narrow zone around the tip of the wire as it transfers off in the arc. You can wash it around all you want, but if that arc is not liquifing the base metal at the point of the metal transfer, you do not have fusion!

Same with SMAW! If you long arc your electrode, travel to fast, have your heat set incorrectly or have extremely dirty base metal, you will not have a proper weldment!

When you do welding around the house for grins, there is only your pride that gets hurt when a weld fails.

If you weld something like a trailer hitch or some playground equipment for public use and a weld fails and someone is injured. It is no longer a pride issue but a Legal liability with the injury or worse on your conscious as well as prosecution! Thats why Certifications are necessary as well as really knowing what you are doing! Practice is one thing and it is necessary! Dont do it by building a trailer hitch! GregH

 

[JStieger]

When you do welding around the house for grins, there is only your pride that gets hurt when a weld fails.

If you weld something like a trailer hitch or some playground equipment for public use and a weld fails and someone is injured. It is no longer a pride issue but a Legal liability with the injury or worse on your conscious as well as prosecution! Thats why Certifications are necessary as well as really knowing what you are doing! Practice is one thing and it is necessary! Dont do it by building a trailer hitch! GregH

Rest assured that I will not do this unless I get certified!



The interesting thing I am finding out is that the more I talk about my welding plans, the more "instant friends" I seem to have that have just the "project" for me



Sheeesh... all I have done so far is take a 1 semester college class and practice beads over and over and over again and people are already like opportunistic vultures :-laf thinking that I am going to erect a skyscraper for them :-laf



Do you guys find the same thing when people become aware of your skills?



If welding is your career, do you get sick of doing it when you're off the clock?

 

[icman95]

You hit the nail on the head! While I just do it around the house for fun and hobby, I did have a coworker/friend come over twice to have me do stuff for him. The first time was planned out, so I set some time aside for him, but the second time not so. The doorbell rang on a weekend day out of the blue and there he was saying "Hey, I've got something for you to weld!" Well, OK I guess, but a call would have been nice. Turns out it was a small part on a someone else's snowblower. This guy does some side work for a local bar and the blower belonged to the bar. I patched it up and earned myself $25 from the bar owner. Not too bad for an unexpected visit. As a matter of fact, the owner had more work for me back at the bar on a piece of aluminum, but I'm not setup up for aluminum, nor did I feel like packing up my gear anyway. But, the point is that this stuff just popped right out of the woodwork, just like your new "instant friends. " It's not often that people know other people with welding gear at home and they take what they can from you. No matter. The more of these "projects" you do, the more you get to practice on other people's stuff.

 

[GHarman]

I get tired of the high pressure work atmosphere. The welding is something that I do enjoy when my body is cooperating:-laf. Just leave me alone and let me express myself. Like thats really gonna happen in industry. I still do projects of my choosing and within my requirements. "If its heavy, you lift it or get somebody else", that kind of weeds out the leaches and shows who is really serious! I lost an old friend because I charged a reduced shop rate(3hr. @$25. 00/hr. ) to weld a mounting bracket to a log splitter for him. He had a firewood business and wanted my services absolutely free. No way! My services are always free for emergency repairs to handicapped equipment for the user, such as a wheelchair repair.

This time of the year I dont get much done cause the shop is usually snowed in and it is really expensive to heat it. BTW, have to go over there today to get some tools! I have a fuel pump to replace on the portable. When you have the equipment, you also have to maintain the stuff! I reckon I am loosing patience with entropy:-laf. It really works! Greg

 

[Coalsmoke]

Like Greg said, it can really be the atmosphere that makes a day, or breaks it. Some of my best days have been in the bottom of a mud pit welding up the world, along side other rig welders that are easy going and good to talk to. Some how a few good guys can make a day go by pretty fast. But, there's a lot of junk that can float around in a day too. I've actually left welding as a my mainstay income. I still do specialty jobs here and there, but am not on call anymore and the books are officially closed. It got such that I was dreading picking up the phone, and at that point I knew I had to make a change. Now I enjoy it when some weird seemingly impossible TIG project comes up, because the pressure is off, I can take it or leave it, and I can take it on my terms, because if the customer doesn't like the price or the time line and they go elsewhere, I've still got food on the table.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I wouldn't put too much weight into that. I have seen lots of pretty stuff come apart, and even more ugly stuff come apart.



As for the 110v mig, if a person plans to do anything over 1/8" steel, get a 220V unit, and PLEASE, don't try to build a trailer hitch or other load-bearing weldament with a 110V mig. Put your money into a used, good quality machine if you don't want to get a new one.

VERY well stated! Same thing goes for air compressors. A GOOD used one is better than a CHEAP new one. I just gave $100 for a "junk" old 3 phase Westinghouse mig/stick welder. Put cables on it and changed the input jumpers from 240 to 480 and fired it up. I use it regularly for stick welding at my company shop. I have a Miller Bobcat 250 diesel engine driven welder I use for portable jobs and a Miller 225 "buzz box" I use in the home shop when I dont want to drag out and crank up the engine driven unit. I would not have anything that runs on 120 volts if I could get the same thing and run it on 240. Same goes for 3 phase... If I can get something in 3 phase, I do. Power is more stable and amperage is half to do the same thing on 240 versus 120 volts. Every house built since maybe the 1940's has 240 volt power, so powering it is no problem.

I have tried various forms of welding and I love stick, hands down. It has always served me very well. Of the machines I have used, my favorites are the 480 volt 3-phase units and the diesel engine driven generator units. I love mine!

 

[sarj]

No offense, but I use a 120 inverter and it does a great job. I use it in elevator construction, all my welds pass, and I haven't had any elevators fall apart on me. I like being able to carry it around in one hand, and use it on 5/16 all day long. Bigger is not always better. Better just to have the right set-up for what you're doing... the important thing to do is to know what you're doing, and by that I mean knowing the limits of your skill and the application of the project and equipment. If you're buying equipment, buy the best unit you can possibly afford, and know it's limitations.

 

[GHarman]

No offense, but I use a 120 inverter and it does a great job. I use it in elevator construction, all my welds pass, and I haven't had any elevators fall apart on me. I like being able to carry it around in one hand, and use it on 5/16 all day long. Bigger is not always better. Better just to have the right set-up for what you're doing... the important thing to do is to know what you're doing, and by that I mean knowing the limits of your skill and the application of the project and equipment. If you're buying equipment, buy the best unit you can possibly afford, and know it's limitations.

Sarj, You are right about those inverter power supplies! However, the small GMAW (mig) welders that I am familiar with do not have an inverter power supply. A SMAW/TIG inverter power supply would be the cats meow, 'cause that would run 1/8" 7018 and smaller electrodes quite well. Unfortunately, those units are not cheap! GregH

 

[opjohnny]

I would love to have an inverter power supply. Seems like they are twice the price.



John

 

[rbattelle]

I've got a Miller Maxstar 150S (stick only). Very nice. Peak current draw at 150 amp (DC) output is only around 23 amp. Runs on 120 or 240, with automatic switching.

Nice for a hobbyist like me. Some day I'll invest in something bigger.

Ryan

 

[GHarman]

I've got a Miller Maxstar 150S (stick only). Very nice. Peak current draw at 150 amp (DC) output is only around 23 amp. Runs on 120 or 240, with automatic switching.



Nice for a hobbyist like me. Some day I'll invest in something bigger.



Ryan

Ryan, You can TIG weld with that machine! For most applications with Stick(SMAW) and TIG(GTAW) That amperage range is more than adequate. You might run into issues with 5/16 and larger electrodes and you machine is not suited for TIG on Aluminum (AC is the ticket W/ superimposed High Freq). GregH

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan, You can TIG weld with that machine! GregH

I have the stick-only version. There's no provision for remote current control, so I don't think it would be practical for TIG.



Ryan

 

[GHarman]

Ryan, Actually, in industrial applications like Boiler repair, HF is not used. Its called "Scratch Start" and you can use a gas(argon) cooled torch. GregH

 

[GHarman]

Ryan, Check this out. All you would need is the torch( collet, cups and diffuser, backcap and tungstens), a lead, Bottle of Argon and a flow meter/regulator! Remote current control is not always necessary. Heat input can be preset and then controlled by travel speed. Talk about hand/eye coordination, walkin the cup with one hand and feeding filler metal with the other. Do a left hand/right hand switch on a pipe weld, next to a wallOo. . GregH



WP Hand-Held Air Cooled

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

WOW great thread guys (And thanks) I maybee have welded 10 things in my life (With no real teaching other than "here plug this in over there" ) And I am SO thinking of taking a class.