new engine, major smoke, hi egt

[RKooistra]

04. 5, had to replace engine at 98k, dealer replaced with long block?, also replaced #5 & 6 injector. They damaged injector pump on reinstall and had to replace it also. I took it back for excessive black smoke and oil leaks. They replaced trans lline damaged during engine replacement and said front seal was leaking so replaced it also. Service manageer stated smoke would go away once broke in. Well smoke got worse, engine oil leak still present and now over 100k and dealer says no longer any warranty. Took it to local diesel mechanic who had injectors tested, tested fuel pressures and flow, checked turbo boost, all tested okay. Mechanic also swapped MAP sensor from good running truck but made no difference. Inspection revealed dealer had used globs of silicone around front to stop/slow down leak (obviously to avoid more warranty work). Previous engine ran an Edge EZ chip and a muffler eliminator pipe, current engine is stock except for muffler eliminator. Any help as to the smoke/high egt would be appreciated.

 

[HOBrian]

The work order should state 12 month 12,000 mile warr. Right???



What are the EGT's like now?

 

[cerberusiam]

White smoke or black smoke and when is it noticeable?



Dealer installed long block should add to your warranty. Hold their feet to the fire and make them honor it.

 

[pullya]

I agree the new parts and labor should be covered under the 12 mo or 12k warranty and i'd be back on their doorstep!!!!! Sounds like they did a crappy job to begin with--maybe some other dealer will honor that parts warranty if there's another one close. Another example of "Never enough time to do things right the first time"----Good luck

Jay

 

[RKooistra]

The egt is 1200 and climbing under wot (expressway), with empty truck - no load. Previous engine pulled my 32 ft 5th wheel 58mph at 800 egt. The smoke is black, light smoke always, mash the pedal and everyone behind is lost in a black cloud!! Warranty is non-existent, my dealer had installed the Edge @18,000 while a lease truck, stating it would not affect any warranty - they installed the new engine, no cost to me. After the new engine was installed Dodge restricted the truck due to trace of chip in the computer?? and wouldn't reimburse the dealer. (at least thats the story I'm being told) Because Dodge won't reimburse the dealer he has shut me out from warranty also. I checked with a local dealer who informed me my warranty was 100k, no matter if or when a new engine was installed. While I don't like the idea of no warranty on a new engine, at least my only cost to date will be eliminating my smoke and egt problem. We have gone through and checked/adjusted the valves and checked physical cam gear timing, all is okay.

 

[CurtLee]

Are those egt's pre-turbo or post-turbo probe? And is that with the edge on? Tell us a little more about the truck and where are you, altitude has a effect on egt's too.

 

[cerberusiam]

The egt is 1200 and climbing under wot (expressway), with empty truck - no load. Previous engine pulled my 32 ft 5th wheel 58mph at 800 egt. The smoke is black, light smoke always, mash the pedal and everyone behind is lost in a black cloud!!

It definitely sounds like either excess fuel or lack of boost.



How is your fuel mileage? Is the engine making oil? You have changed fuel and air filter to rule them out?



I assume you don't have boost gauge so would be curious to know what was considered adequate boost and how it was measured. It could be as simple as a loose boot on the CAC.



The 1200 at WOT is not bad. If it get sover 1400 much the longer you stay in it then there is an issue. It almost sounds like you still have the Edge on it.

 

[HOBrian]

My EGT's under wot with my quadzilla on the 60hp setting will see 1,000 and thats an empty truck. Driving around at 65 I see 600 with the quad on the same setting.

Do you have the same amount of power as before?

 

[RKooistra]

Thanks for the responses, i'll try to answer in order. The egt are measured pre-turbo, the edge system is completely removed from the truck, the computer was "reflashed'?? and I'm located in mid-west Michigan- Muskegon area. The fuel mileage is around 18 mpg, approximately 3500 miles on new engine, no change in engine oil level. The air intake system was cheked, no blockage or leaks, all clapms are tight. Mechanic observed boost at 29 on in truck gage,(wot) similar to his test equipment. Seems to tons of power/torque, we feel the injector timong is some how advanced?? According to dealer work order the new engine is part # R5093540-AA. With all the yearly & mid year updates are there any physical engine modifications?? I'm wondering if there are different crank position trigger wheels (front crank pulley assy??)for these different years? I understand the CPS cannot be moved to advance or retard so question of the

possiblility of different trigger assys. Any input?

 

[cerberusiam]

Just bcause I can't think of anything else, what is the build date of your truck?



You have physically checked that the fuel filter was changed and not just took dealers word for it?



Since you got a long block all the elctronics should have been switched from the old engine, correct? The injection timing is electronically controlled base don crank and cam sensors. The only way to advance it is electronically. Now, if the long block was not assembled correctly and the cam was mistimed that could introduce a whole new set of parameters.



Black smoke indicates too much fuel or incomplete combustion from lack of air or late timing. Your boost sounds good so it could e the fuel system since the buggered it up the first time.



Did your mechanic look at rail pressure to see what it was doing across the rpm range? That might lead to an issue.

 

[RKooistra]

Thanks for the input cerberusiam, I don't have the truck home, so can't tell you the exact build date. When I checked the build date before I was told it was a 04. 5 (vin is3D7KU28C24G203387). As for the fuel filter, I have not physically checked it, just assuming the dealer was at least competant enought to put a new filter on a new engine (I knoe one should never assume). The mechanic did check the cam gear timing - all marks were correctly aligned. He says he also has checked the rail pressures and has had discussion with Boschabout the new pump. This why I was wondering if there are different crank sensor trigger assys. for different years?? Maybe the original (old engine) trigger timing is slightly different than what should be on the new engine?? I"ll look into the fuel filter also though, thanks.

 

[RankRam]

I'm thinking the dealer installed the wrong injectors, the early year (03 04) engines were different than the newer 5. 9's.

 

[cerberusiam]

I'm thinking the dealer installed the wrong injectors, the early year (03 04) engines were different than the newer 5. 9's.

Thats what I was thinking but early injectors in a later engine don't even want to run very well and he says it has all kinds of power.

 

[RankRam]

Yes I agree with you but if I'm following this thread correctly the dealer only changed injectors 5 and 6. Just maybe this allows the Cummins to run well yet blow smoke?

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes I agree with you but if I'm following this thread correctly the dealer only changed injectors 5 and 6. Just maybe this allows the Cummins to run well yet blow smoke?

Quite possible, and, considering the crappy work they did who knows what injectors got put back in.



Maybe they swapped them around with used ones and never replaced with a good unit. Since they messed up the IP and siliconed other places everything they did would be suspect from my point of view.

 

[HBarlow]

This is a troubling story and one that doesn't seem likely to end well. I suspect this dealer is doing this work very reluctantly and with resentment. I can understand their position because they got themselves involved in an unwanted and unexpected warranty installation, probably because of the Edge module. Dodge may have learned the details and cut them loose on this engine. Some wrongheaded dealer tech or service manager may have done the Edge installation without the knowlege of the dealer principle and he, the dealership owner, is now forced to foot the bill.

Do you know with certainty that they installed a new Cummins longblock or was it overhauled locally or by the dealer? They may be "mixing and matching" worn out parts like injectors and turbo from old engines. If you are sure the long block, head, and turbo are in good shape you might be money ahead to pay for a new set of injectors out of your own pocket and even agree to pick up some of the labor costs.

I know that is a large price tag but if you don't, this situation could get worse. Maybe you could sit down with the owner and service manager and try to work out a friendly agreement to buy new injectors at dealer cost to help them with expenses. Many dealerships are not very profitable now with soft sales and this dealership may be trying to limit spending to get you out the door and forgotten.

I think you have to accept some responsibilty for the engine failure because you were operating with aftermarket modifications.

 

[DPKetchum]

The part number he listed is a REMAN number. It starts with 'R'

 

[RKooistra]

I appreciate your comments and suggestions. I am not working with the dealer but a local independent diesel repair service, this is why I'm seeking your input. Is there a web site I can use to verify the Dodge part #s on the dealer work orders so I can have some idea what parts were used. The dealer didn't get crappy with me until after I tried to return it the 3rd time to fix leaks, etc. , hoping any parts prior to our parting are legit. I assume the part#s would indicate which year injectors were used. According to info before the dealer went south, injectors 1-4 are from the original engine, only 5 & 6 were replaced. The local mechanic confirmed 5&6 looked new. Having read other threads where persons were looking to MAKE smoke the MAP sensor was disabled? Since we tried another MAP sensor whith no change, could a wire or connector cause improper sensor feed back? If so do any engine codes come up when run under these conditions? - I've never any warning lights appear. Guess I would really like to confirm the work order part numbers for some peace of mind. If nothing else, now that the snow banks are gone plan to hook up the 5th wheel and test under load next week??