what 2-stroke oil?

[JDiepstra]

Please indicate all the engine and engine component failures directly related to the use of 2-stroke...



I am not aware of any and I have known some owners running it for better than three years now... if there are failures caused by 2-stroke, I would like to know about it.

All? You serious? That's just a dumb request.

 

[steved]

I'd like to see this rash of 2-stroke related failures you are implying exist...

If they do exist, I'd like to know because I would quit experimenting with it.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

MARVEL MYSTERY OIL, I know this is not 2-storke oil, but along the same lines of thinking.



Been around for many years, many fleet diesel trucks add the oil to the fuel.



My idea for starting to use this, ULSD, lower lubebristy than the tried and true diesel. I was reading on the bottle: "Cleans and keeps fuel pumps, injectors, nozzles, free from harmful fuel residues. Reduces upper cylinder wear. Promotes longer piston ring life. Retards souring of fuel and lubricates. " Also says: "increases fuel mileage"



Well I tried it out, used the recommend 4 oz. to each 10 gallons. In my case I added 12 oz to the 34 gallon fillup.



I picked up an instant . 29 MPG increase in the first tank.



Jan 09

22. 35 MPG

23. 39 MPG

Feb 09

22. 38 MPG

22. 46 MPG

Average = 22. 65 MPG Winter Blend fuel

---------------------------------------------

Mar 09

23. 25

23. 61

Apr 09

23. 44

Average = 23. 43 MPG Summer Blend Fuel

--------------------------------------------------------------

Apr 09 First numbers using the Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel

23. 72 A . 29 difference from the above average.



PS: the new one gallon bottle of MMO has a brand new disclamer on the lable:



"This diesel fuel additive does not comply with federal ultra-low sulfur content requirements for use in model year 2007 and newer diesel motor vehicles or model year 2011 and newer diesel noroad equipment engines. "





. 29 MPG increase x 34 gallons = 9. 86 miles saved per tank.



$2. 30 cost per gallon of fuel / 23. 72 MPG = . 09696 cents per mile.



. 09696 x 9. 86 = . 956 cents savings BUT the cost of oil added per tank was $1. 14, so it is a negitive -. 18 cents per tank.



I will still use the oil for the benefit of the engine and fuel system.



Unless the MPG goes up in the upcomming fillups or I can buy the oil for less money or the cost of diesel goes, which it will, the numbers will change somewhat.



I will see how this MMO plays out, I may switch over to the 2-storke in the future ?

 

[bwall7116]

What do you mean everyone? I and most other 3rd gen owners do not put any crappy weedwacker 2 stroke junk lube in the fuel system!

LOL so youre telling me those guys are running Cummins 5. 9 HPCR's in their boats? Just cause it's good for one engine doesn't mean it's good for them all.

But not as well as the 6 or so other products that worked better. AND furthermore, just because it added lubricity does not mean that it does not do other sorts of harm.

All? You serious? That's just a dumb request.

JDiepstra looking over your posts I see that you have developed a strong dislike for running 2 cycle oil as additive. I also noticed that you seem to only include your opinion in these posts. If you can't bring some substantiated data proving that 2 cycle oil is harmful don't waste our time with your opinions. I would like to see it if there is such data so that we might all be able to learn from it. Just because 2 cycle oil is not designed for diesel engines doesn't mean that it might not be well suited there. Our cummins was built to power water pumps, is that to say that it should not work in out trucks!!!

 

[JDiepstra]

JDiepstra looking over your posts I see that you have developed a strong dislike for running 2 cycle oil as additive. I also noticed that you seem to only include your opinion in these posts. If you can't bring some substantiated data proving that 2 cycle oil is harmful don't waste our time with your opinions. I would like to see it if there is such data so that we might all be able to learn from it. Just because 2 cycle oil is not designed for diesel engines doesn't mean that it might not be well suited there. Our cummins was built to power water pumps, is that to say that it should not work in out trucks!!!

Do you really think that the engine in your truck is the same as the one powering water pumps? No. Just cause they are similair does not mean they are the same.

 

[steved]

All? You serious? That's just a dumb request.

Still waiting...

 

[JDiepstra]

Still waiting...

Continue waiting. I have a soccer game in half an hour.

 

[Gene Heck]

All? You serious? That's just a dumb request.

Well make it easy on yourself. If it's a "dumb request" to talk about "all" these failures that you claim you know about can you at least supply any accurate details on just a few 2 cycle oil related failures that you can come up with.



No rumors or BS, please.



Maybe some of your soccer buddies can help out.

 

[JDiepstra]

Well make it easy on yourself. If it's a "dumb request" to talk about "all" these failures that you claim you know about can you at least supply any accurate details on just a few 2 cycle oil related failures that you can come up with.



No rumors or BS, please.



Maybe some of your soccer buddies can help out.

Ok if you can quote me where I talked about "all these failures that I know about" I'll tell you whatever you want to know.



Too old to play sports huh? Jealousy rears its ugly head. Sad man, sad. And yes, we won, and yes, I scored. But I am sure you know nothing about scoring. :-laf

 

[Gene Heck]

First,



I'm really glad your team won. I'm sure that someone is proud of your personal sport accomplishments. No, I'm not jealous of you or anyone else for that matter. I doubt if you smart enough to goad me into anything, but thanks for trying. I can see that you will provide much amusement for me in the future.

Stick with playing games with the other little kids.



Second,



Now where are these so called facts you keep saying you have. We are all waiting with much anticipation. No more stalling, please.



Regards,



Gene

 

[JJPage]

TC-W3 @ WalMart has just increased to over $10.



I guess it's not working.

 

[Gene Heck]

TC-W3 @ WalMart has just increased to over $10.



I guess it's not working.

Thanks for the tip about Walmart JJPage. I have to go to Costco's in Delaware (no sales tax) today to get tires for my MB, I guess I'll swing by the Walmart there and grab a couple of gallons if their price hasn't jumped at that store yet.





Pretty sad, huh?

 

[JDiepstra]

First,



I'm really glad your team won. I'm sure that someone is proud of your personal sport accomplishments. No, I'm not jealous of you or anyone else for that matter. I doubt if you smart enough to goad me into anything, but thanks for trying. I can see that you will provide much amusement for me in the future.

Stick with playing games with the other little kids.



Second,



Now where are these so called facts you keep saying you have. We are all waiting with much anticipation. No more stalling, please.



Regards,



Gene

So you were unable to quote me saying anything you are accusing me of saying then? Come on man, if you accuse me of saying something, you should be able to back it up. Otherwise, make sure you post facts and not fiction.

 

[biggy238]

AND furthermore, just because it added lubricity does not mean that it does not do other sorts of harm.

Go find some CPLs for your CR boats and water pumps..... I want to see what the difference is in the fuel system.....

 

[Gene Heck]

But not as well as the 6 or so other products that worked better. AND furthermore, just because it added lubricity does not mean that it does not do other sorts of harm.

JDiepstra, My apologies if I upset you. Having said that lets get down to serious diesel business. Let me ask you this without any sillyness being implied by either of us.



Here is some of what I know;



Ashless 2 cycle oil is formulated to be consumed during the combustion process and not leave deposits behind. While this doesn't mean much to a 2 cycle using reeds and ports this is critical to the life of exhaust valves and seats on our 4 cycle engines due to build up and pitting issues on the valves and seats.



The older 2 cycle oil wasn't ashless and would slowly plug the exhaust screen in the muffler on small engines until they would run but not make much power until you disassembled the muffler and cleaned or replaced the screen inside. A lot of equipment got tossed away because either the owners didn't know this or were to lazy to work on it. Also on a 4 cycle engine deposits would build up on the exhaust seats and valves and cause pitting and then burned valves.



I'm not a boater so I don't claim to know anything about hi performance outboards so I can't make any comment about those engines.



Here is my question to you.



In your second sentence above that ends with "other sorts of harm" is there anything you know about using 2 cycle oil that is detrimental to an engine? If there is something negative about doing this that you know about would you share it with me (and the others here) as I would not want to damage my equipment as well as throwing good money at an additive that is slowly doing me in.



I have done this since back in the 90's after diesel went down to 500 ppm in all my diesels and haven't had a single issue. Now that it's down to 15 ppm it seems even more prudent to add a little extra lube until the oil companies get all the bugs worked out of the new blend. I have had the injectors out of some of my engines and haven't seen any issues with the use of this oil. They were as clean as I could want them to be. In the 07. 5's and newer I can see where this might cause problems with their after-treatment sytem. However on earlier trucks without this equipment I don't see where this is a problem even for trucks with catalytic convertors such as yours and mine. It seems that in engines such as the CRD it would be more beneficial to add a little extra lube because of the multiple firing events that the injectors have to endure.

 

[SShafranko]

I am also waiting to hear of the harm a lubricating agent will cause to the fuel system or to the rest of the engine parts. I am not being sarcastic at all but i have this argument with people on occassion. Me pesonaly, i don't see how exessive lubrication of moving metal parts can be bad unless the lubricating agent has a negative effect on the metal, plastic, rubber, etc. or the combustion itself and any parts affected post combustion. Someone please tell me how this extra lubrication can be bad as i really don't know.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

Update, see my older reply #43.



OK, I now have good data, been using Marvel Mistery Oil, 12 oz on each fillup. It has made an . 62 MPG increase.



ULSD only

April 08 through Aug 08

22. 53

22. 47

22. 71

21. 68

23. 92

24. 38

24. 03

23. 96

Average > 23. 21



ULSD & MMO

April 09 through Aug 09

23. 72

23. 79

23. 82

23. 45

23. 42

24. 35

23. 96

24. 11

Average > 23. 83 vs. 23. 21 = . 62 MPG increase.



Now I bought the Wal Mart Super Tech 2-stroke oil. I am on my first tank with this mix, still using 12 oz per fillup as I did with the MMO. The 2-stroke oil is 1. 20 less per gallon than the MMO.

This 2-stroke oil is oily, much more than the MMO which seemed like auto trans fluid. I think the MMO is a good product for cleaning injectors, but this 2-stroke oil IMO looks very promising, to lube the pumps, injectors, cylinders. I cant wait to get my first few fillups and see how this fuel/oil mix works out.



EDIT, thanks Gene H.

Is my math correct about the ratio, 128 oz per gallon x 34 gallons = 4,352 oz / 12 oz = 362. 1 RATIO

 

[steved]

I thought it was a 1:128 ratio you wanted? One ounce per gallon?



I stopped running it, too smokey with the Smarty.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

If my math is correct this oil mixing is making sense as a cost benifit now. But my main concern is the added lubebrisity to compensate for the ULSD, so my engine will get over 500K.



. 62 mpg increase x 34 gallons = 21. 08 miles saved per tank



$2. 80 diesel per gallon / 23. 83 mpg = . 11749 cents per mile



. 11749 x 21. 08 = $2. 476 saved



MMO $12. 17 gallon / 10. 66 12 oz servings = $1. 14 cost per serving



money saved 2. 47

MMO cost ---1. 14

net saving --1. 33 each tank !



Now with diesel and gas going up due to this administrations dislike of fossel fuels, (cap & trade, carbon tax) plus the 2-stroke oil is a buck less than the MMO, the net saving number will be better IF the MPG stays the same of even increases more in the next round of testing.

 

[Turbo_Bob]

I thought it was a 1:128 ratio you wanted? One ounce per gallon?

I use 12 oz per 34 gallons