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P2262 revisited

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Drops out of Gear

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I started this post in a different tread and then realized that there was way to much information and the post kind of expanded out side the context of the original thread . This post will contain all the information that was in my original post and then I will continue with the rest of the information. This post will focus on one trouble code, P2262 a mechanical failure with the VGT turbocharger on the 6. 7 liter diesel engine.



Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P2262 is stored in Engine Control Module (ECM) memory anytime the ECM determines there is a problem with the actuation of the of the VGT turbocharger slide ring (simplified explanation). In some of the early built 2007 models there were some mechanical issues,the slide rings binding on the guide pins, and there were a few issues with housing that were built on misformed jigs that caused the housings to be machined improperly which inturn caused the VGT turbocharger slide ring to stick inside the housing. Most of the turbochargers with the mechanical or machining issues were replaced early in 2007 because the "CHECK ENGINE" light kept coming on and setting the DTC P2262.

"BUT" you say " We're still having problems and the "CHECK ENGINE" light is still coming on and still setting that damn "P2262" code.



So, As Mr. Harvey used to say, "Here is the rest of the story"...



The most common cause of the DTC P2262 being stored in the ECM and the "CHECK ENGINE" light coming on is soot contamination of the VGT turbocharger slide ring and the slide ring guide pins causing the slide ring to stick at times. The way the ECM monitors the slide ring is through a sensor inside the turbocharger actuator motor housing. This sensor sends a voltage signal to the ECM to tell the ECM how far it is extended or retracted. The position of the slide ring can be monitored with a scan tool and is read as a percentage of extension or retraction with 100% being fully extended and 0% being fully retracted or to put it another way :



100%= Exhaust Brake

0% = Full Boost



Just to give you and example most of the time at cruising speed , 60 to 70 mph with no load, The VGT turbocharger slide ring will set between 50% to 70% extension range.



Anytime there is a mechanical failure with the turbocharger slide ring and the ECM sees the fault it will store P2262 fault code in its memory. Along with storing the fault code the ECM will also take a "Snap Shot" of all the other sensor readings or data parameters at the time the fault occurred and stores it as a "Freeze Frame". When we connect a scan tool and read the trouble code data we have the capability to look at the "Freeze Frame" data and see all the ECM data at the time the fault code was set.

Two of the data parameters we look at when a code P2262 occurred is the percentage of the turbocharger slide ring extension when the fault happened and the amount of time that the engine has been running before the fault occurred. As we monitored these data parameters some commonalities began to manifest themselves amongst almost all (greater than 90% with the P2262 trouble code) the trucks with a VGT turbocharger. First,the VGT turbocharger slide ring was sticking at about 60% extension and second the amount of time that had passed sense the engine was started this trip was less than 300 seconds.

Wanting to more about what was causing the slide ring to stick I took some of the turbochargers that were remove from vehicles that the turbochargers had been replaced and disassembled them. The first thing I noticed after I removed the actuator motor was that on some of the units the force that I applied on the slide ring actuator arm to unstick the slide was very slight, with the slide ring stuck it did'nt take very much force to move the slide ring. This lead me to the conclusion the the actuator motor that moves the slide ring is not strong enough to compensate for a slightly sticking slide ring. As I continued to disassemble the turbocharger down to the slide ring and removed the the slide ring there is a steel band that raps around the outside of the slide ring and another steel ring on the inside of the inner diameter of the slide ring. These steel rings are there to scrape the soot accumulation off of the slide ring as it moves back and forth inside the turbo housing. The steel ring on the inside diameter of the slide ring on almost all the units was collapsed inside there ring groove and lock in place by soot build up therefore rendering them incapable of scaping the soot build-up on the slide ring.

"So" you say "What do we do to correct all the problems?"

"Well" I say "I'm glad you asked"



First, And this is very important, You need to make sure you have the latest and greatest calibration (reprogram,flash) for your ECM. I know,I know,I hear you, "Another Reprogram?" you say. "But" I say " This latest and greatest program is a good thing". Besides the "Net zero" and the "Net reduction" programs (thats a whole different subject I will address later) there is also built in this program a parameter that ignores the turbocharger slide ring position for the first 500 seconds of a engine start. So far this program seems to be working, But summer is coming which will be the tell-tell sign if it will work for good. "Is'nt that just masking the problem" you say. In my opinion No, I think the parameters for setting the fault code were too tight to start with,the amount of time that the slide ring sticks is small and also most of the time the slide ring don't stick at all. Remember that most of the time the slide ring only sticks just after the engine is first started, the rest of the time it operates as designed.

Next you need to make sure the whole system is clean. This gives the new program a clean start to control the soot load it has to handle. I know this may mean another trip to the dealer but it is a good idea to have it done. If the technician is good and follows the technical service bulletins for cleaning the emissions systems The new program will work better.

And finally there has been two revisions to the turbochargers. First was a change to the steel rings that scrape the soot from the slide ring and a new coating put on the slide ring itself. Then the latest revision has a stronger slide ring actuator motor.

Well I think that is about as up to date as I can get on the P2262 trouble code. As I find more info I will post it.



If you would like more info on some of the other issues like maybe the P2000 Trouble codes or maybe the regeneration triggers or how about the "Net Zero-Net Reduction" programs...



Let me Know



Mike
 
Mike,

That's good information. Keep it coming. I would only ask that you explain it in simple terms and as briefly as you can so us laymen can wade through the technical complexity and understand it.
 
Mike, thanks for the info, it is very interesting. One question though. When you shut the engine off does the sliding ring stay in whatever position it is in or does it go to a preset position?



Duane
 
When you turn the key off it goes to the fully retracted ( 0%) , when you turn the key on it makes one full "swipe", 0% to 100%, and then sets itself at 80% untill the engine starts and then goes into "programed mode" while the engine is running.



Mike
 
If you would like more info on some of the other issues like maybe the P2000 Trouble codes or maybe the regeneration triggers or how about the "Net Zero-Net Reduction" programs...



Let me Know



I would like to know everything you have. If you need to email it to me let me know and I will shoot you a pm with my email address.
 
Mike,

How about starting a new thread and discuss regeneration on ISB6. 7 engines at a level for the owner/driver.
 
Mike,

Thanks for the update a very thorough and detailed report on what the P2262 code means to the turbo.

I would like to know what is the latest flash that you mention in your explanation of this event. I have had the turbo drilled and cleaned with the three following TSB work done to the engine and transmission. They are TSB11-001-08 and TSB11-002-08 along with the transmission TSB-21-018-17 (harsh shifting ). I had this work done in Dec 08, since then no issues with my truck. I know that these are the TSB that explain what work was done, but they would include the flash software in these bulletins to the end user.

Are these the latest updates that you discuss? Thanks again and keep up the good work.
 
Mike,

Thanks for the update a very thorough and detailed report on what the P2262 code means to the turbo.

I would like to know what is the latest flash that you mention in your explanation of this event. I have had the turbo drilled and cleaned with the three following TSB work done to the engine and transmission. They are TSB11-001-08 and TSB11-002-08 along with the transmission TSB-21-018-17 (harsh shifting ). I had this work done in Dec 08, since then no issues with my truck. I know that these are the TSB that explain what work was done, but they would include the flash software in these bulletins to the end user.

Are these the latest updates that you discuss? Thanks again and keep up the good work.



Those two TSBs starting with 11 deal with the turbo. You need the TSBs below that deal with the emissions in order to get the latest "flash" update (version AS). Not sure when the AS version came out, but I suspect it was after Dec 08.



2008 DH 6. 7L CUMMINS AUTO 50S 2500



TSB(S):

18-013-08 REV. A

18-035-08

Part #: 62350435AS
 
The latest flash came out the first part of March, If your Vehicle was reprogramed before March It would be a good idea to go get the newest calibration (flash) installed.
 
Are the '09 models having to do these flashes (latest ones) or are they addressed from the factory? Are most/all the bugs worked out in the '09's?
 
It depends on the build date, I check all the vehicles I see for the latest and greatest

flash. No matter what the dealer says Chrysler will pay to have your ECM updated to the latest calibration as long as you are still within the 100k warranty period, but at some Dealers you have to insist and be persistant.



Mike
 
I have a few questions on this code. At 6,300 miles, P2262 has reared its ugly head again. I do a combination of hard driving and casual, and even did 400+ miles this weekend. Turned key on yesterday, 30 seconds later, BAM! CEL came on. The first TSB (TSB11-001-08) has been done, so i guess the second is in order. So here are my questions:

1. When i get my truck back, how can i tell that the second TSB (TSB11-002-08) was performed?
2. If the 09's aren't having this problem over and over again, why aren't they just replacing the turbo from the start? Can i request this, and will they do it? Seems it would save eating the cost of cleaning and cleaning for the dealers.
3. Is there a way i can clean the turbo myself? Can i spray compressed air in the port? Has anyone tried to clear / clean the P2262 code themselves?
 
Since you say that the P2262 code has returned In My opinion you would be a likely candidate for a new turbo, "BUT" It is up to the discretion of the Dealer to clean it or decide if it needs to be replaced. the TSB 11-001-08 details the procedure to drill and clean the turbo, but it also contains the following statement:





NOTE: Refer to Service Bulletins (SB) 11-002-08 and to 11-002-07 for detailed

Turbocharger, Engine and Exhaust Aftertreatment System repair procedures.

Performing a complete repair when cleaning (or replacing) a turbocharger

includes thorough cleaning and/or inspection of several other Engine and

Exhaust Aftertreatment System components. The Engine and Exhaust

Aftertreatment Systems must be cleaned so that the systems operate as if in

a “LIKE NEW” condition. DO NOT omit a component or step in the cleaning

process.





So if the Technician that did the work on the vehicle did not clean the EGR system then the soot accumulation inside the EGR system will contaminate the turbo again. Also the TSB 11-002-07 detail the procedure for inspecting and cleaning the Exhaust Aftertreatment System.





Mike
 
I have a few questions on this code. At 6,300 miles, P2262 has reared its ugly head again. I do a combination of hard driving and casual, and even did 400+ miles this weekend. Turned key on yesterday, 30 seconds later, BAM! CEL came on. The first TSB (TSB11-001-08) has been done, so i guess the second is in order. So here are my questions:



1. When i get my truck back, how can i tell that the second TSB (TSB11-002-08) was performed?

2. If the 09's aren't having this problem over and over again, why aren't they just replacing the turbo from the start? Can i request this, and will they do it? Seems it would save eating the cost of cleaning and cleaning for the dealers.

3. Is there a way i can clean the turbo myself? Can i spray compressed air in the port? Has anyone tried to clear / clean the P2262 code themselves?



StarScan/Mobile and wi-Tech version 9. 05 have a diagnostic built in now that will tell the technician if the turbo needs to be cleaned or replaced, or the controller just needs to be flashed. The important thing is the P2262 code has to be there for the diagnostic to be able to be run. If it is cleared before you start, the test will not even show up. Unfortunately it can not be used as a test to be sure the cleaning was successful as it relies on freeze frame data for some of it's diagnostic abilities. So far there is no TSB, so unless you have been to a diesel class in the last few weeks you will not know about it yet. It is also dependent on the software version of the ECM, so the trucks with newer flashes will also do a better job of properly diagnosing a clean vs. replace,.
 
Thanks to both for the responses. Because I can't stand a CEL light, and after doing a lot of reading here on another Cummins site, i decided to hitch my boat and take it to the river this weekend. I always drive with the exhaust brake on, but this i left it in Tow/Haul mode, and drove the snot **** out of it on the way to launch. About 10 miles down the road, stopped for gad (for the boat :) ). Started the truck up and no CEL! guess it cleaned itself out. Its been humid as heck around here, with daily afternoon monsoon's, so maybe the humidity caused whatever soot was there to cake up. Again, i don't use it for a daily driver, so maybe it needed a good hard working to clear itself out. Now i have to cancel the appt with the dealer since the code isn't present, but I'm sure it will turn back up again.



Does this seem to be a common probably / annoyance with the 6. 7's? By that I mean, the code appears, CEL goes on, but then clears itself after a hard working out? I'd like to keep the CEL on if it means they will replace the turbo with a better one. Has anyone figured out how to de-soot the system without having to take it to the dealer? Thiniking of post-warranty maintenance / cost.
 
Mike: taking the advice from different posts on TDR, I drive with the ECM always on and have never had a problem in 20K miles. This is great information and I had absolutely no problem understanding it, and I'm a layman. Not sure how you could break it down much simpler than you already put it. Keep up the good work and thanks!!
 
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