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Motorhome U-joint question

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Tires

Anyone going to Sturgis?

It's like this:



We have just bought an '88 Winnebago MH on a GM platform, 58K miles, gasser 454 engine, engine, transmission (TH400, apparently?) are all in great shape consistent with the relatively low mileage for a 20 year old unit - it's a 27 footer, by the way. We are now considering a trip from here in eastern Oregon, down to Florida for a Disney World visit, with our brother and sister in law along.



My question relates to the U-joints - there are 2 drive shaft sections, with the usual center support bearing. All seems solid in the U-joints and CS bearing - but none of those items are greasable - and are 20 years old - so what are my options?



Should I trust them as-is for a 6K+ mile trip? Is it practical to have the U-joints disassembled and repacked - or more cost effective to simply replace all 4 U-joints and the center support bearing as a pro-active "feel-good" precaution due mostly to the age of those items?



Comments?
 
Are there any indications that those joints may be dry, noise, vibration, etc? If not, I would personally be inclined to just let them go until they needed replacement, especially if it appears that the rest of the unit is in otherwise good mechanical condition.
 
Are there any indications that those joints may be dry, noise, vibration, etc? If not, I would personally be inclined to just let them go until they needed replacement, especially if it appears that the rest of the unit is in otherwise good mechanical condition.



I'd LOVE to do just that - but it's pretty hard to verify actual condition without actually removing the shafts, and a thorough check of the joints throughout their range of motion. Added to that, is the potential unpleasantness of a breakdown with 4 of us aboard, out along some deserted and lonely stretch of road - then the wait as towing and eventual repair is made.



The miles on the joints don't especially worry me - it's the fact that they AND the grease inside are over 20 years old - perhaps not an issue on relatively short hauls - but not reassuring on a 20 day, 6k long steady haul...



But yeah - replacing what likely are solid joints and bearings just for what might be a warm and fuzzy feeling, isn't attractive, either...



I guess I'm sorta looking for guys who have successfully made long trips on similarly aged driveshaft hardware, for their thoughts - am I being overly cautious - or not? What might be considered "normal" lifespan service and mileage for a setup as I have described? :confused:
 
Gary,



My 88' 22' Chieftan had almost 60K also and never had a problem w/driveshafts. I called my Grandfather,who has owned several Winnebago RV's beginning from 68'model year..... including an 86' 33' Chieftan. He has put well over 100K on each one until trading up by using Mobil 1 synthetics. In all of the RV's he has owned... . all P-30 chassis... he has never ever experienced a driveshaft failure.



Your best source of information and general conversation chatter among other owners,is to join the Winnebago/Itasca Travelers club. Unfortunately,you just missed the Grand National Rally held in Iowa..... a huge Winnebago gathering with upwards of 1600 rigs on Winny's own Fairgrounds... . again, a huge source of info for both old and new rigs. My In-laws are actually on their way home now from Iowa!!



I would be more inclined to check and make sure your Auto-Park and E-brake function was in excellent shape. Trust me,it is not my intention to give you a false alarm,but many a P-30 has been towed for this stupid Auto-Park feature. I have worked on many of them and MANY problems are the result of a faulty hydraulic pressure switch. The warning signs are the Auto-Park idiot light staying on in the dash..... Also you should aways here a prominent hydraulic pump 'running' noise when going from any gear to Park. Hydraulic pressure works against heavy spring pressure while in any gear and when this switch fails,spring pressure overcomes fluid pressure and then your E-brake apply's... . going down the road:eek:



Alan
 
Gary,

I've never owned a motorhome and know next to nothing about them but I think you are, indeed, being over cautious.

You could be just as suspicious or concerned about 20 yo wheel bearings, axle bearings, alternator bushings/bearings, starter, power steering pump, a/c compressor, etc.

I worry about mechanical failure and preventive maintenance also but the motorhome chassis you bought is only one out of millions of car, pickup, and vans built by GM using all the same components. Thousands of them are still owned by elderly people who only put a couple hundred miles on them each year.

My advice would be take it on a two or three hundred mile shakedown weekend first to check it out and build your confidence then it all is well load it up and go to FL.
 
Gary,



Something else I would check is your air-bags in the front coil-springs. Many of the original equipment bags were long gone a few years after new. A common upgrade replacement are the Air-Lift bags. The factory P-30 bags are only rated to 65psi I think if memory serves. Your coach will benefit in the handling department from good air bags and Bilstein shocks... . blue/yellow!!The Air-Lifts are rated to 90psi but I have known owners to go above that on the later and larger RV's,especially with slides. I know your rig does not have a slide but if you have 16" wheels,take my advice and upgrade the shocks.



Alan
 
If you are going to disassemble them to inspect them, do not repack them, replace them. You are already there and the cost would be minimal for time spent.
 
Gary,



Something else I would check is your air-bags in the front coil-springs. Many of the original equipment bags were long gone a few years after new. A common upgrade replacement are the Air-Lift bags. The factory P-30 bags are only rated to 65psi I think if memory serves. Your coach will benefit in the handling department from good air bags and Bilstein shocks... . blue/yellow!!The Air-Lifts are rated to 90psi but I have known owners to go above that on the later and larger RV's,especially with slides. I know your rig does not have a slide but if you have 16" wheels,take my advice and upgrade the shocks.



Alan



Our rig recently has had the front air bags replaced, the rears seem fine - fronts rated to 90 PSI, rears to 70 PSI - front shocks/helper springs look to be Bilsteins - rears look like the originals. - wheels are 19. 5's - very good newer tires all around - tread and sidewalls look great.



I would be more inclined to check and make sure your Auto-Park and E-brake function was in excellent shape.



HMmmmm - not familiar with that "auto-park" function at all - no reference or evidence of it on our rig or any of the OEM literature that came with the MH - and ours has the relatively plain 'ol mechanical E-brake/drum setup attached at the rear of the transmission, seems to function properly.



If you are going to disassemble them to inspect them, do not repack them, replace them. You are already there and the cost would be minimal for time spent.



YUP - I agree - but was only pointing out that it's pretty hard to analyze condition of U-joints purely by pushing/pulling on them while they are still on the vehicle, unless they are already pretty well gone.



I suspect Harvey and others are correct - drive it a bit locally between now and October, when the long trip is being planned, and go from there. :)
 
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Gary,
Our old '83 Chevy Class C TranStar Champion (1-ton G30 van chassis with a stock 350 with a Quadrajet, TH400, Dana 70) was used for the past 10 years as our motocross racing tow vehicle. We, my family of 4 to 5, used it almost every weekend from March through November to pull our heavy trailer, but the trips were within a 250 mile radius for the most part. The places we went were not designed with motorhomes in mind, but she was 100% reliable.

We were all going to go on an extended vacation in my uncle's huge Winnebago a few weeks ago. But the reality of our initial plan to have so many people (seven) in that one huge RV for 2 weeks was too much, I decided. So I frantically got our old Chevy ready at the last minute.

I was very worried about everything since it saw no use last summer when we stopped racing due to fuel costs and other interests. It has sat a long time and nothing is worse for a vehicle. I wanted to replace shocks, brakes, steering linkage, wheel bearings, u-joints, etc. and just generally spend all of our vacation money and worry myself to death before we even left.

I could not find anything wrong with any of those parts except the idler arm and time was too short. So I tuned her up, replaced the idler, loaded her past all reasonable needs, and hit the road.

We did 2 weeks of mountains followed by mountainous high desert followed by more mountains; and I'm talking some VERY hard, hours-long, 8 to 10% grades. I even had a big steel motorcycle carrier on the back with my DR650 'zuki in it just to make sure it was completely overloaded.

3600 miles in all, and now the old girl has 97K on her. Not one problem other than a gummed up Generac generator carb, which I disassembled and cleaned while camped, and then it was perfect, too. We really put her to the test on that trip!

Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, the Medicine Bow Mountains 12k peak, very steep and a good excuse for my 15 year old to ride the motorcycle up over the mountain peak where we played in the snow. Then more Wyoming, then Utah with the big grades around Salt lake City, across Nevada to the desert for several days of prospecting for gold.

Back across Nevada, then up through Idaho and across to the Snake River Valley in Wyoming which we followed up to Jackson Hole, then did Yellowstone for a day. Exit east out of the park and on to Cody, WY then up over the huge Bighorn Mountains (heckuva pull; be ready for some really extended steep grades that will take all day). Onward to Devil's Tower, Deadwood for a day, and then Rushmore; all in the Black Hills. A long night across South Dakota and the Badlands and into Minnesota then back to Iowa.

Your trip sounds like it will be even longer, but the other guys are right. If you have some time before you leave, just put some miles on her and see how things are. Our's has never had ujoints, or any motor or transmission work. I have always run synthetics because our camper has never had an easy life. Those old Chevy's are tough!

Nice thing about them is the ease with which you can find parts and fix almost anything yourself almost anywhere if you have to.

When I first got ours, 10 years and 40k miles ago, I went through and changed out the water, fuel, and oil pumps, hoses, belts, oils, etc. Put a new alternator on a few years later along with premium front brake pads. Also built a massively stout frame extension, added air suspension, a 50 gallon gas tank, a 5500watt Generac, built a motorcycle carrier/receiver hitch assembly, etc. New radials replaced the old bias tires a few years back (what a huge difference in ride!). Now a new idler arm because the passenger front tire was exhibiting some abnormal wear patterns.

I have never done the rear brakes. I checked them before leaving and found them fine. They held that overloaded camper by themselves (shifter in neutral) using just the parking brake on a 10% downhill grade when I tested them on the trip. GOOD parking brake!

The ONLY thing that has ever quit on me on that Champion is the fridge just recently and the alternator years ago just 4 miles from home. The cruise control, dash air, roof air, water system, etc. etc all work perfectly after 97,000 miles and 26 years.

We installed an a/c fridge for this trip along with a 1500 watt inverter after the parts supplier sent the wrong cooling unit to fix my lp/ac/dc fridge. I'll probably go ahead and fix the old fridge even though I'm putting the old girl up for sale to buy a big pickup camper.

BTW: If you are a flatlander like me, but not a truck driver like me, you may wonder what an 8% or 10% grade is.

10% means that for every 100 feet you travel, you are climbing (or descending) 10 feet vertically. 8% is 8 feet vertically. Now, 100 feet is not very far, only 33 and 1/3 yards, or three first downs. To climb 10 feet in that distance is VERY steep. You would not want to walk it very long.

You mountain hillbillies can go ahead and laugh at us flatlanders, but between those grades, the accompanying sharp curves, and the thin air; we flatlanders will have a new-found respect for Western vehicles and inhabitants!
 
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Great write-up Scott and how true about the old Chevy's being tough. My old 88' Chieftan was very reliable and the only reason I replaced it was because it was way too small for a family of 4. We now have an 04' Winnebago 35' with the 8. 1L and I use it regulary to tow my toys to WVA.



Gary,





Follow the path of the cable assembly from the E-brake back and you should notice the black painted steel box that contains all the hardware for Auto-Park. All it is designed to do is lock the brake whenever Park is engaged... this to free the load off of the park pin in the TH400. The P-30 was originally designed for Step-Van applications and quickly evolved to MH service over the course of the early 80's. As GVWR's increased,the P-32 was added and available up to 16. 5K. The P Chassis was bought out by Workhorse in late 98' and now they are the source for any chassis related parts.



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Alan
 
Your '04 Winnebago with the 8. 1 (and Allison transmission) sounds just like my uncle's rig, Alan. I was very impressed with that setup, though I'm a big fan of diesels when it comes to vehicles that size. He pulled a Ford Exploder behind his. He stayed in Nevada along with my Mom and cousin's son, but he did pull that Medicine Bow 12,000 foot mountain with us, but we disconnected the Exploder to prevent unecessary strain and had my wife drive it up.

He, in turn, could not believe how well our little old smallblock pulled and ran. We had no problem outrunning him in some places, though we both tried to keep our highway cruising speed @60mph to save fuel. Bear in mind his rig was MUCH bigger and heavier than even my overloaded Chevy AND he dragged that Exploder behind him.

Here's a tip for anyone crossing Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, South Dakota or the like during the summer: The wind is the biggest factor when you are westbound. It howls along very steadily during the day, usually from the West/NW. Try to do your "just covering some miles" traveling during the evenings and very early mornings, or even at night when the wind generally dies down. Especially in steeper stretches. My 70 year uncle avoids driving at night, so we had to fight a lot of wind going west during the day. That both sucked fuel and caused the engine and transmission temps to run higher in the heat of day while pulling steep hills.

Gary,

My best recommendations are:

1> If you don't already have them, install the biggest auxillary oil and transmission fluid coolers you can.

2> Run Amsoil or similar synthetics in your motor and rearend. Don't neglect to check that rearend oil level, either. It will be working hard. Same for the transmission.

3> Check your brakes. You want lots of good binders when hitting the mountains and there is little chance of you driving 6,000 miles across North America without hitting some serious mountains.

4> Run the highest load rated tires you can and inflate to near maximum. Make sure your duals on each side are as exactly matched in size and air pressure as possible. Otherwise one is overloaded and the other just skips along and ends up prematurely flat-spotted and worn. Don't forget to air up that spare!!

5> Take your own summersausage for cheese and cracker snacks and it doesn't take up space in your fridge till you open it. There are long stretches through some of those Western states where even the grocery store clerks look at you strangely when you ask for some... :confused:

Happy Trails and post some photos!

If you run into any problems in east-central Iowa, call me at 319-626-6809 and I'll try to help.

Scott
 
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For reference, here's what we ended up with for our 7 grand:



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Tires are "F" rated - should do the job. Will check later today for that "Auto-park" box - too hot out there now...
 
Looks like an excellent used motorhome. The fiberglass and paint look like it still has original gloss. Must have been garaged by previous and probably only owner.

Did it come with maintenance records? The guy who keeps one stored inside and cared for is often meticulous about maintenance also.
 
No worries with that one!

You did EXTREMELY well for $7k, Gary!! A cream puff! Do you need a couple of rambunctious teenage boys to help you break it in? Just like 4x4 trucks, they never drive or run right until they have a scratch or dent, ya know... ;)



My brother in San Diego found a great deal for me on a Class A Cummins/Allison pusher last winter. Of course when he called to say he had found us our dream motorhome for a song, I didn't have enough to even whistle a tune... I was almost ill when he told me what it sold for after we passed on having "first shot at it".



Oh well. Sooner or later my "great deal" opportunity will coincide with my finances... :)
 
WELL, it's not perfect - and Internet photos can be deceiving, but ii IS in quite decent shape. We got it from the second owner, who had it the last 2 years - it's primarily just to tow our fishing boat to places where we would otherwise have to take 2 separate vehicles, 1 for the 5er, and another for the boat.



Only issue found so far, is the hi/lo beam switch on the turn signal lever is shot - and someone did a temporary repair by routing the hi-beams directly off the light switch - so no selection between hi/lo - haven't decided best approach at repair - we rarely drive at night when RVing, so might just install an external hi/lo switch, rather than dig thru the steering wheel to replace the turn/dimmer switch, and behind-the-dash wiring to reverse what was done earlier. Not a big deal, just annoying to work on in 100 degree weather...



OH - and no "auto-park" hardware found on the MH - actuating cable goes directly from the hand lever to the driveshaft brake drum at rear of the transmission - maybe a difference between class "A" and "C" MH's?
 
Simple is better, Gary. If your park brake works, and it is more likely to in a simple direct cable setup, I'd count my blessings.



I taught my wife and son the proper way to use it is to FIRST engage the p-brake, then shift into park. Let the brake, not the park pawl in the transmission, take the load. Your transmission will thank you.



The "multifunction switch" they started putting on vehicles sucks. Too many functions; not enough lifespan. And too many blonds kept getting their high heels tangled in the steering wheel when they changed. :-laf



The old floor-mount dimmer is far better.



If you can only have ONE headlight position, for God's sake make it low-beams, not high!! There are other people on the road and blinding them is rude, unsafe, and even illegal in many states.
 
WELL, it's not perfect - and Internet photos can be deceiving, but ii IS in quite decent shape. We got it from the second owner, who had it the last 2 years - it's primarily just to tow our fishing boat to places where we would otherwise have to take 2 separate vehicles, 1 for the 5er, and another for the boat.



Only issue found so far, is the hi/lo beam switch on the turn signal lever is shot - and someone did a temporary repair by routing the hi-beams directly off the light switch - so no selection between hi/lo - haven't decided best approach at repair - we rarely drive at night when RVing, so might just install an external hi/lo switch, rather than dig thru the steering wheel to replace the turn/dimmer switch, and behind-the-dash wiring to reverse what was done earlier. Not a big deal, just annoying to work on in 100 degree weather...



OH - and no "auto-park" hardware found on the MH - actuating cable goes directly from the hand lever to the driveshaft brake drum at rear of the transmission - maybe a difference between class "A" and "C" MH's?



Gary,



The only thing I can think of is with the 27' being relatively short in length and subsequently, lighter in weight... ... your chassis did not come with it. Count your blessings and do what Scott says about the E-brake and shifting. Although I do find it very,very odd that your chassis does NOT have it ... ... especially with the 19. 5 wheels.



Looks like a very nice coach for $7K!!!You'll have no problem pulling your boat with that... . plenty of reserve power with these big-blocks and 3spds.





Scott,



I have a friend that has a rig similar to yours..... a Shasta 24' class C with a 350 4 barrel. It is geared with 4. 56's and has a TH400 also . He put duals with Flowmasters and boy does it talk to you when he is going up hills under load. He has no problem keeping up with me in WVA on the grades but uses a bit more gas due to the lower gears. We both easily crush the Powerstrokes when pulling at maximum GCWR. I have added the Banks Powerpack to mine and had the computer shipped away for tweaking and it runs very well and returns about 8mpg pulling a CRV behind it. The computer enhancement basically just bypasses the factory restraints on the 'drive by wire' programming and adds timing where necessary... . similar to what racers due to late model sport cars,I guess.



Alan
 
Gary,



The only thing I can think of is with the 27' being relatively short in length and subsequently, lighter in weight... ... your chassis did not come with it. Count your blessings and do what Scott says about the E-brake and shifting. Although I do find it very,very odd that your chassis does NOT have it ... ... especially with the 19. 5 wheels.



Dunno - Winnebago used different base chassis for at least this particular model - a GM like mine, John Deere, and a Ford chassis - maybe the auto-park was on one of the other setups?



Also, topped off the differential lube, and the tag on the differential states I have a 456 ratio - common for these I suppose?



(EDIT!)



Reading owner's manual, found a paragraph describing the auto-park bit - seems it applies only to the John Deere chassis models...
 
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Those 4. 56's would be common in a gas motorhome, Gary, though as I recall, mine has 4. 10's. You should figure on a maximum cruising speed of about 60mph if mileage is any concern at all. Even then, you will be turning some rpm's, but it will pull well.



Alan, I have often toyed with the idea of building a "stronger" motor for my Class C. Heck, I have a newly-rebuilt, warmed-up 454 sitting on a stand in my shop if I could shoehorn it in there. I don't think a smallblock offers any significant fuel savings over a bigblock since it has to work harder in these vehicles. But the next thing I would do if I were keeping it would be to add dual exhaust, maybe even headers. They would make a difference.



But we are not real comfortable with the floorplan anymore. Rear dinette/bed across the rear, then stove and sink on the driver's side, followed by a closet, then bathroom and shower right behind the driver's seat.



From the rear entry door forward on the passenger side it has the fridge, a closet, and a second dinette/bed right behind the passenger seat.



What you end up with is two widely separated dinettes/beds and a hallway-type layout with the galley in the middle. It has advantages, but I would prefer a livingroom-type layout with the bathroom at the rear, then the galley, then a more open livingroom.



If I do keep it, I will at least build a set of bunks in the rear so the dinette up front can remain a dinette at all times. It makes for a rather short bed and the boys are getting taller fast.



A set of bunks in the rear would also mean we could have 3 beds with real mattresses, which are FAR more comfortable than dinette cushions to sleep on.



I suppose it could be remodeled that way, and I have considered it since it could use remodeling anyway. But I would really just rather buy a pickup camper and take advantage of the Cummins I already have. I was leaning towards a diesel Class A, but I would like to cut down on insurance, licensing, and maintenence costs. One less "vehicle". More freedom to roam once camped.



Right now, everything works well and she runs and drives very well. But she does have 97K on her and selling her while still in good shape is preferable to waiting until things need fixed.



Even as it is, I probably won't get enough to cover what the generator cost me...
 
Those 4. 56's would be common in a gas motorhome, Gary, though as I recall, mine has 4. 10's. You should figure on a maximum cruising speed of about 60mph if mileage is any concern at all. Even then, you will be turning some rpm's, but it will pull well.



I guess the larger tire diameter helps a bit with the final ratio - normally, in this immediate are where we plan to use the MH most, lots of steep grades, narrow roads and frequent low speed sharp curves - elevation runs from 3K-5K feet - so the somewhat lower gearing might be good for that usage - but a killer out on the major cross country freeways on the Florida trip we are planning.



We'll just have to drive slow, enjoy the passing views, and hope we don't get run over! :eek::-laf
 
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