Looking for feedback from slide-in owners

[SRath]

My needs:



1> Family of 4. Two growing teenage boys. One wife (so far). One golden retriever. The boys would kill each other before sharing a bed, so I need one bed big enough for me and the mrs. and two separate beds big enough for adult sized siblings.



2> My '96 is an x-cab, 4x4, longbed, single-rear-wheel Dana 80, with 1-ton suspension, 12 valve and 5 (soon to be 6) speed manual transmission. And I intend to beef that suspension and the wheels and tires up significantly. I routinely haul 5,000 lb loads of rock and dirt in the bed for relatively short distances, so I know it is capable of doing heavy duty work.



3> I must be able to pull a 17 foot bassboat, jonboat, or an enclosed 12 foot motocross trailer. I plan to use the enclosed trailer for extended trips to alleviate space concerns in the camper and to bring a few on and off-road toys along. I build my own hitches and frame mounts that exceed anything commercially available, so no problem there since the camper will likely be 9 to 11 feet long.



4> My oldest son and I will use it the most, both for racing and hunting. It must be capable of sub-freezing or even sub-zero weather (insulated tanks) and be able to take some light-to-moderate off-road/rough-road driving without falling apart. And it must hold a reasonable supply of fresh water.



5> Several medium and short distance family excursions per year. Several more hunting weekends. Probably only one multi-thousand mile, extended time, family trips per year.



6> Must be generator capable. There are different ways to accomplish this and the genny does not have to be real big, but big enough to run a roof a/c.



So far, I am most impressed with the construction of the Bigfoot (now out of business) and the Northern Lite (Crazy horse, you can drop that rig off at my place in Iowa anytime! ) But monocoque construction does not allow for slideouts, and the only way to get enough bed space is with a slide or even two.



The other campers I like are some Lances (heavy!), Host, Arctic Fox, Eagle Cap, and the awesome Adventurer 950B with the industries first slideout devoted to full-size bunk beds seen here: YouTube - Truck Camper Magazine: 2009 Adventurer 950B and Adventurer - 950B Overview and Trailer Life Magazine: Follow the Road to Adventure!



I'm sure I missed some, but I really don't want anything made of stapled wood framing. Once the moisture penetrates, it rots, and it is always heavy.



My 26 year old Chevy Class C proved what I had always suspected: A 1-piece fiberglass roof design, and fiberglass body (No aluminum and seams) is FAR superior for longevity due to no water penetration. Not to mention how LIGHT the Bigfoot and Northern Lite is compared to other campers of the same size while at the same time being very strong and well-insulated.



There are so many nice campers being built today, that it is really hard to choose.



Any likes and dislikes about your campers or campers you are familiar with would be greatly appreciated!



Likewise for any advice or general comments.



Scott

 

[DonTX]

Think HOST

Since you are at Truck Camper Magazine, you already know I love Host campers. Looks like to me that the Everest does exactly what you are looking for, and the weight cannot be beat I don't think. Most of all, Host is the ONLY one with a slide AND a decent floor plan. They make the floor at the height of the bed sides, so you truly have a big room feel when the slides are out, where the others have slideouts, but they are more like little elbow room slides, no good for several people inside I highly recommend you go see one someplace to get a feel for what I am talking about. Oh yeah, look at the fresh water capacity etc on the Everest as well. Click on this link, you need to look no further. :-laf Host Campers | Everest

 

[AMink]

My needs:



1> Family of 4. Two growing teenage boys.

One word: TENT.

When it's you and your oldest, you won't need it. If it's raining and the tent leaks, they'll sleep together inside whether they like it or not! We have bunks in our trailer, and my youngest would rather sleep in a tent. The 15 y. o. likes the bed, but will sleep in a tent if needed. Also a little nicer for you and the Mrs.

 

[rwitt]

Scott,

From your description of what you're looking for, I'd have to agree with Don on the Host Campers. As much as I like my Arctic Fox, if I was looking to replace it, the Host would be at the top of my list. The Adventurer sounds like it may work for you also with the bunks in the slide out. Although, you're asking a lot for a SRW truck to haul a camper that big and heavy. I know, as I originally had my camper with a sticker weight of about 3500lbs (5000lbs loaded) on a 2002 Dodge 2500 4x4 with extra suspension upgrades and tires. It handled it ok, but you knew it had a load on it. Thats why I have the truck I do now. 5000 lbs of rock and gravel is a lot different than a 5000+ camper which has a much higher center of gravity than the rock and gravel does. Do some checking on the weights of the campers that you are interested in, and figure about a 1000lbs more for the camper when it's fully loaded. You'll definately want to have the 19. 5 G or H rated tires and wheels, along with the suspension upgrades you mentioned.

As for the generator, I have the Onan 2. 5 LPG in my camper. It's nice to be able to push a button inside the camper to start it or turn it off, but if I was doing it all over again, I'd seriously consider not getting the built in generator and going with the Honda 2000 as it is very quiet compared to the Onan. You can also go to rv.net and go into the truck camper section to get a lot of good information on setting up your truck and camper information.

Rich

 

[SBall]

Scott,
Your truck is just too small to safely handle the camper you describe (and trailer).
Yes ... you can haul it, but can you stop it or maneuver it around a curve, or control it in a cross-wind? I've been there and done that and with a camper much lighter than the one in your description, and have moved up to a dually, (a much safer and more comfortable platform).
You will no doubt hear many contrasting opinions of this subject, but that's my vote for what it's worth.

 

[Grizzly]

I completely agree with rwitt and SBall. You need a 3500 DRW. You're asking for trouble with anything less. I also agree that hauling 5K lbs of rock and 5K lbs of top heavy camper are two different animals. For everything you're talking about hauling, I'd even consider a 4500 truck.



As far as campers, I really liked the 11' 3" Lance we had. I also like the Arctic Fox. I've had no experience with Host, but I hear good things about them. All three are 4 star rated.

 

[JPM]

My opinion is no slideout,(too heavy for a swr truck) no basement(too tall for a swr truck) and a tent. a lance lite maybe?

 

[DonTX]

Nobody is more of a dually fan than I, but I ignored that because of his expression below. I think for his low useage factor, he is not interested in changing trucks. Another factor in the Host, the 75 gallons of water (600 lbs) goes down on the bed floor, lowering the CG quite a bit in comparison to others. I never had experience with a 3/4 ton beefed up as his is and his anticipated improvements, so maybe it will work out OK, maybe not.

I know that my rig weighs just 12k when loaded for trips, adding a slide may add a little more weight, but not nearly as much as most people anticipate.

My needs:

My '96 is an x-cab, 4x4, longbed, single-rear-wheel Dana 80, with 1-ton suspension, 12 valve and 5 (soon to be 6) speed manual transmission. And I intend to beef that suspension and the wheels and tires up significantly. I routinely haul 5,000 lb loads of rock and dirt in the bed for relatively short distances, so I know it is capable of doing heavy duty work.

Scott

 

[SRath]

I drive semis for a living. Many of our new tractors and trailers at work are Super-singles, which are quickly making duals obsolete due to fuel economy. We haul very top-heavy, easy-to-roll loads. Yes, I can feel the difference between them and our dually/tandem tractors, but they are just "different", not unsafe. You get used to them and just drive accordingly. You never take a corner, curve, or offramp fast regardless of which tractor and trailer you have when you haul what I do, anyway. You WILL roll regardless of which style you have.



The weak and/or dangerous link on a dodge, whether dually or srw, is the idiotic factory use of such a tall lift block between the spring and the rear axle. Lift blocks are not safe, but they are cheap, and that is why dodge uses them. They place too much stress on the u-bolts. Properly arched spring stacks would be much better.



I am not new to pickup campers. Especially heavy ones, like most all of the old ones were. The last hard-side pickup camper I had was set up on my SRW 1-ton K-30 4x4 Chevy. That lifted truck sits very high and has 35" tires. I had already added air suspension, aftermarket Soft-ride springs, and Rancho RS9000 shocks before buying the camper. Sure, you knew the camper was there, and you didn't slide broadside around corners, but it handled and drove just fine on the road. That was an old, heavy pickup camper. Modern ones are much lighter and give greater design consideration to weight balance and placement.



I later went to a better-equipped, fully loaded, 10' popup and liked it much better for hunting and going offroad, which I did a great deal of back then. I sold it and bought the Class C when my family started outgrowing the limited space.



I have had a dually, and do not want to own another dually. I plow snow with my truck and use it offroad, too. A dually does neither as well as a SRW. Besides, low-mile, 12-valve, manual transmission, 4x4, extended or quad-cab duallies are getting very hard to find. I don't want a 24-valve Cummins. I'll keep what I have. It's paid for and has all of the above.



If a camper is too heavy or top-heavy for my dodge srw, I won't buy it. I wouldn't want such a heavy camper even if I had a dually. But there are few modern campers out there that require a dually, imo. With the proper tires and suspension, a SRW will do anything a dually will except get stuck as easily or suck as much fuel.

 

[SRath]

Maybe a better approach to choosing a pickup camper would be to eliminate the makes I would NOT own?

Those would include any that still use wood framing, corrugated aluminum siding, or weigh over 3250 dry.

The Host Everest is mighty nice and at 3295 dry comes in very close, and I believe they are all aluminum framed. But that weight is for a single-slide Everest, not the triple-slide shown in all their photos, so I am not too impressed with Host's attention to weight savings. The extra high-floor will also increase the vertical center of gravity. Then there is the price tag... I could easily find a low-mile Cummins Class A pusher for less money!

I keep going back to look at the Northern Lite. I like it's construction, quality materials, and weight. Their heaviest camper is still under 3000 lbs. It is hard to imagine anyone building a higher quality, more durable camper.

The Adventurer 950B keeps me looking, too. The slide-out bunk beds and aluminum framing are nice. Someone was thinking "Family of 4", but compact and low on extravagances, when they designed that one.

Neither is great on fresh water capacity, but they aren't terrible. The Northern Lite has only 36 gallon fresh, and 40 gallon grey tanks and 18 black. I'd rather have 46 gallon fresh and 30 gallon grey... Doesn't make much sense.

My sons are 15 and 13 right now. So in 5 or 6 years, it will likely be just me and my wife using the camper for the most part. Keeping that reality in mind, I am not adverse to building my own dinette/bunkbed setup for now. I was going to do that in my Class C if I kept it.

I have never been in a slide-out pickup camper. But I imagine things get mighty crowded inside when in travel configuration. It would be nice if the camper was somewhat useable without deploying the slide(s).

 

[DonTX]

I like to see a fellow doing his homework. The initial cost of the Host is VERY high I think, mine lists for over 50k! However I do think I am getting my moneys worth, I bought mine used for half that.

Not sure if the high floor raises center of gravity much, they put the heavy stuff down where most have you walking. They are all aluminum framed, never another wood one for me either. Last one weighed 6800 empty.

The one thing that the Host has, that others don't, is floor space for more than one person. Believe me, the conventional layout gets very crowded when two people are in there (the express reason we ditched the last one for instance), for three or more forget it, take turns getting in or out. We put in a 5000 mile trip with my adult large son along in the Host Yellowstone, were not cramped or crowded a bit, even with a dog and a cat along.

DO get inside one first, preferable with the wife and a kid or two. If you are over the road type driver, stop by for a look at mine if you are in the vicinity!

Happy shopping!

 

[AMink]

I like to see a fellow doing his homework. The initial cost of the Host is VERY high I think, mine lists for over 50k!

A little off topic, but why do slide-ins cost so much compared to a tt or 5er? I realize they are putting quite a bit in a smaller area, but wow! you're talking about 50-100% more in a lot of cases. Just curious if they build them significantly differently. I've looked at some of the smaller, hunting type SI's and even they get into the high 20's, low 30's.

 

[rwitt]

The Host Everest is mighty nice and at 3295 dry comes in very close, and I believe they are all aluminum framed. But that weight is for a single-slide Everest, not the triple-slide shown in all their photos, so I am not too impressed with Host's attention to weight savings. The extra high-floor will also increase the vertical center of gravity.

That 3295 dry is probably a standard Everest without Air Conditioning, Generator, Awning, or any other option. Just add those 3 options plus the weight of 75 gallons of water, plus food, clothing, and any other items you take along for 4 people, and you can see how quickly the weight adds up. Plus you need to include the weight of you and your family also. These things get heavy really quick, even the smaller campers.

Rich

 

[SRath]

Rich, You are absolutely right. That weight adds up quickly! Don's point about them designing the tanks down low to help keep the weight lower is a real good point, but I can see where a highly-optioned Everest or Yellowstone could get pretty hefty in a hurry.

We are already "experts" at shorter-distance excursions in our Class C, having done them to MX tracks and campgrounds and friends/relatives and even hunting for 10 years.

This trip, which we put off year after year for one reason after another, taught us alot about long excursions. When I drove longhaul OTR (I'm local these days so I can raise a family), I could live out of a small duffel bag indefinitely. I knew I could do laundry at truck stops and an extensive wardrobe is not necessary when the same folks don't see you every day (i. e. : "He ALWAYS wears that shirt! I wonder if he ever changes. . ?").

My wife and sons learned what I knew: More than half the clothes they packed for two weeks did not get worn. The boys got a few new souvenir t-shirts along the way, and my wife did laundry at a couple campgrounds so equipped.

In fact, you could go through everything in the camper and take half of it out. Anyway, I digress...

It is too bad a monocoque (molded shell like a fiberglass boat hull) design is not compatible with slide-outs. Weight, strength, and longevity are monocoque advantages while the space advantage goes to slide-outs without question.

 

[Grizzly]

I drive semis for a living. Many of our new tractors and trailers at work are Super-singles, which are quickly making duals obsolete due to fuel economy. We haul very top-heavy, easy-to-roll loads. Yes, I can feel the difference between them and our dually/tandem tractors, but they are just "different", not unsafe. You get used to them and just drive accordingly. You never take a corner, curve, or offramp fast regardless of which tractor and trailer you have when you haul what I do, anyway. You WILL roll regardless of which style you have.



The weak and/or dangerous link on a dodge, whether dually or srw, is the idiotic factory use of such a tall lift block between the spring and the rear axle. Lift blocks are not safe, but they are cheap, and that is why dodge uses them. They place too much stress on the u-bolts. Properly arched spring stacks would be much better.



I am not new to pickup campers. Especially heavy ones, like most all of the old ones were. The last hard-side pickup camper I had was set up on my SRW 1-ton K-30 4x4 Chevy. That lifted truck sits very high and has 35" tires. I had already added air suspension, aftermarket Soft-ride springs, and Rancho RS9000 shocks before buying the camper. Sure, you knew the camper was there, and you didn't slide broadside around corners, but it handled and drove just fine on the road. That was an old, heavy pickup camper. Modern ones are much lighter and give greater design consideration to weight balance and placement.



I later went to a better-equipped, fully loaded, 10' popup and liked it much better for hunting and going offroad, which I did a great deal of back then. I sold it and bought the Class C when my family started outgrowing the limited space.



I have had a dually, and do not want to own another dually. I plow snow with my truck and use it offroad, too. A dually does neither as well as a SRW. Besides, low-mile, 12-valve, manual transmission, 4x4, extended or quad-cab duallies are getting very hard to find. I don't want a 24-valve Cummins. I'll keep what I have. It's paid for and has all of the above.



If a camper is too heavy or top-heavy for my dodge srw, I won't buy it. I wouldn't want such a heavy camper even if I had a dually. But there are few modern campers out there that require a dually, imo. With the proper tires and suspension, a SRW will do anything a dually will except get stuck as easily or suck as much fuel.

I'm sure you know what you're doing and it sounds like you have had much experience with campers of all sizes, but there is no way on God green earth that I would agree with you on hauling a large top heavy camper with a 3/4 ton single wheel truck. No matter how you beef it up.



I remember hearing, as a very young man, that to properly and safely haul any given camper, you must have the right truck under it.

 

[AClayton]

Scott,



I'm assuming your biggest reason for getting a slide-in is to utilize what you already have..... a 12V 1 ton truck. A truck that will offer better fuel economy towing the trailer you have with a slide-in on the bed. With that said... . have you considered a SUT trailer or 5th wheel. For the same money you get a pretty decent sized 5th wheel SUT to haul all of your gear and still have the RV portion... ... It will displace the heavy load of all your gear over 2 more axles and won't overload your truck. Your 12V will probably get around 10mpg towing a heavy 5th wheel. You could sell your class C and enclosed trailer to help compensate on the cost of the 5th wheel;that already is in the same price range as a slide-in Camper!!Just a thought!!



Alan

 

[wcoomes]

As an owner of Host Yukon w/ tent option, there's no way you nor anyone else should even attempt to haul a camper of that size w/ SRW truck. It's quite a load for my dually w/ air bags and Rancho 9000 in a crosswind. Rickson may make a nice wheel, but it ain't gonna help in a 35 mph+ crosswind. If I could afford it, I'd even go up to a 4500/5500 from my 3500.

 

[SRath]

Guys, the ONLY difference between my truck and a dually is the additional width that the additional wheels and tires give the rearend. That's it, and it's not that much.



Sure, a wider stance will offer better side-to-side stability. So will a sway bar to some extent. Neither offers as big a difference as some folks think.



There is NO difference in my frame, my springs, my brakes, my axles or any other component from a dually. I simply will not pay the day-to-day driving, fuel economy, and off-road driving penalties that a dually owner must accept.



If a camper is too big for my truck or a dually, or even marginal, then my interest in it ends right there. It is too big to be taken anywhere off the overly-beaten track. I plan to at least use it to park in the area I will be hunting. That might be a frozen cornfield, or a nice clearing in the woods. Maybe an old farmstead. Whatever I buy WILL see some gravel roads, snow, fields, and unimproved roads along with tractor trails in the woods provided overhead tree limbs are not a factor.



My last pickup camper was a well-optioned pop-up with hot water, shower, toilet, LP fridge and furnace, etc. It was great for what I did, but that was before my kids were out of diapers and with me on those hunting and fishing trips. I want a hard-side this time.



Many of our fellow MX racers use toy-hauler trailers, both bumper hitch and 5th wheel. I have had the opportunity to check many of them out. They have some appealing features, but it is always a compromise no matter what type of camper you choose. The biggest drawback is they will haul motorcycles and atv's, but not my boats. Sure, I could pull doubles. I did that professionally for 5 years, 5 nights per week, 500 miles per night with real wiggle-wagons (semis). It's a living, but not my idea of fun.



Doubles are a pain anywhere off major highways. You MUST always be able to drive forward out of any place you drive into. Backing up is like pushing a length of chain. That puts a real crimp in exploring new places or traveling to unfamiliar ones.



Other than that, I would be looking hard at a 5th wheel rig.



I need mobility. I need to have an unencumbered vehicle once at my destination. I need to pull, and back up, a boat or trailer easily. I want to go where fewer other people are.



Only a pickup camper fits the bill. The downside is sleeping space, as well as storage space. With a pickup camper, I could pull my boats, motocross trailer, or even a small camper trailer to sleep more people. I was thinking about removing much of our racing gear from our trailer and fitting it with a couple of fold-down bunks, and a furnace, fridge, etc that I got from a salvaged fold-down camper trailer. It could then haul an atv or a couple dual-sport or racing motorcycles AND whatever gear doesn't fit easily in our pickup camper. At night, the bikes could be wheeled outside and the bunks folded down for the boys. If fishing is the plan, then the boat can hold the extra gear until we reach camp and the boys can tent it for the night. We have an excellent military tent and goretex ECWCS sleeping bags.



In other words: I have many options with a pickup camper. In a worst-case scenario where we need to sleep 4 and there are only 3 beds, there is always the camper floor or the pickup. I sleep in less comfortable places all the time at work

 

[Bob4x4]

With all the complaining about the steering and weak front ends that you have posted, I do not understand why you want to throw a bigger burden on it.

I had a 4wheel camper on my 94 and it worked out ok but there is no way I would go to a large overhead unit and expect to go off road with it.

 

[SRath]

I'm working on that frontend. Spend enough money, and it will be far superior to the factory junk.

I take it you disagree with the fact the Dodge frontend has serious weaknesses? Maybe you should do a search using "Dodge Death Wobble" here on TDR...

Or maybe you don't like the fact I don't put my cheerleader skirt on every time "Dodge" is mentioned? I call 'em as I see 'em, Bob.

I bought a Cummins. It just happened to have a Dodge wrapped around it. And the Dodge, unlike the Cummins, has serious design and manufacturing problems.

I'm not "going offroading with a camper on" unless you consider driving across a field or down a trail or country road "offroading". The "offroading" may happen after I plant the camper on it's jacks and free up my truck, but I have to get both there first.