Here I am

Driver lost control down mountain

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

New Converter/Charger

Our new DODGE Camper

Earlier in the week a man driving his truck hauling his 5th wheel down Red Grade road out of the Big Horn Mtns near Sheridan WY, lost control & went over the side of the mtn. i was told he bailed out before things got really ugly. im guessing the rig went at least 200 yds down before coming to a stop.

#ad




The angle at which the trailer sits

#ad




#ad




Whats left of the Powerstroke

#ad


#ad




Pic of the trailer from off the mtn. its hard to see, but the road is top-right of the photo

#ad




I had a heck of a time walking back up the mtn. im surprised the trailer didnt just disintegrate.
 
All things considered, it's amazing he lived through that. Of course, it doesn't look like the truck had any major intrusion in to the cab.
 
He bailed out as it left the road. it is a, very steep unpaved road, i would guess between 10-15%. in some spots if you stop your truck you would have a heck of a time gettin going again because of the loose gravel. most people stop at the parking lot below to unload their atvs & ride them up. i would never take a trailer that size up or down that stretch of road.
 
I hope his financial situation was good. That could be a 'total it out and let the insurance man pay for it'. Especially when the driver 'bailed'.

... and that's just a crazy hypothesis that almost anyone would think up.
 
CUMMINZ, When you are done chortling with glee, please tell me: What does the number of rear wheels have to do with being too stupid to know how to drive? Some of you dually guys think duallies are God's gift; and a substitute for brains... I'll do anything with a single rear wheel truck that you can do with a dually except get stuck. Guaranteed.

I have owned both and I drive both. And that includes both pickups and real trucks.

Half of our new fleet of semi tractors and trailers are conventional dual-wheeled and half the fleet is now single-wheeled. There is very little, if any, difference. The singles offer some great advantages, too. Like MUCH better fuel mileage. You just can't call 'em 18-wheelers anymore.

I will give duals ONE major advantage: If you have a flat tire with a single, you are done. With duals, you can generally limp it in to a shop if you aren't too heavily loaded.

But overall, I think you have seen the beginning of the end of duals in the trucking industry.
 
CUMMINZ, When you are done chortling with glee, please tell me: What does the number of rear wheels have to do with being too stupid to know how to drive?

Scott,

You sound a little sensitive and defensive about your SRW RAM.

How do we know that the poor guy in the photos didn't know how to drive?

If we rephrase your question to "please tell me: What does the number of rear wheels have to do with ... ... ... this accident?" I can think of several possible answers.

A dual rear wheel truck would have reduced the strong possibility that the truck in the photos was overloaded on the rear tires and suffered a tire or rim failure. Most SRW trucks hauling or towing heavy are loaded to their limit, if not beyond. The large, heavy fifth wheel in the photos had a heavy kingpin. A dually has approximately 12,000 lbs. of rear tire capacity compared to maybe 7,000 lbs. on a SRW. That's a margin I like. A dually improves the driver's ability and chance to survive a rear tire failure and maintain control long enough to get the rig stopped. A DRW truck also improves rear wheel traction on dry pavement. A dually is more likely to survive dropping one rear tire off the outer edge of the pavement when going around a curve too fast. There are a number of advantages of using a dually to haul or tow heavy.

Your example of the truck fleet you drive for switching over to super singles overlooks the fact that super single wheels and tires are not available on Ram trucks. Simply using two rear tires instead of four as pickups do gives up the additional weight carrying capacity and traction of dual rears and can't be replaced by super singles.
 
I'm glad no one got hurt. This could have involved a fatality.



I'm convinced that a DRW would have helped given the large size 5th wheel he was hauling. However, the driver should have never attempted such rough steep mountain dirt road with that much load in the first place.
 
Total capacity of tires on my 3500XD is 24,480 #s.

Total wheel capacity is 24,000#s.



Total capacity of tires on my SRW 2500 was 12,200#s.

Total wheel capacity of 4 steel wheels is 10,400#s.



245x19. 5x12 plys

#ad
 
Now, after showing the improvements I have made on my retirement truck I will say this. I have personally been involved with a near catastrophe pulling one of my 5ers. Several years ago, wife and I were travelling at 50mph in tight traffic north of Nashville when a construction dump truck rolled out of a hidden entrance to the interstate. I had installed 2 extra leaf springs on my 2500 and it carried my 5er as good as any dually I have owned. The problem was my tires. The industry does not manufacture ANY 16/17 inch single tire that will compete with side loading like 4 dually tires. In a straight power/emergency braking situation on good pavement 4 good SRW tires may come close to getting stopped like a dually. Here is the kicker... In a panic almost uncontrolled (trying to stop and avoid) situation your towed vehicle WILL wag your tail. First thing is you slightly turn to one side to miss and your 5er wants to go straight, the sidewall rubber on the rear slams to the opposite rim, your front tires do the opposite, you over compensate, by that time the 4000#s on your pin becomes 6000#s, the side motion of the front of the 5er becomes kinetic energy of 8000# jerked to one side but your tire rubber is already thrusted to the opposite of the 5er thrust. Now the unexpected jerk, the rear of the 5er by reaction of the tandem axles wants to go back the other direction. Now the next reaction you did not expect, the 8000#s of jerk to the left of the pin immediately throws 8000#s to the other side. This has all happened in . 7ths of a second. You are still trying to watch the nut who has pulled out in front of you and your wife is hollering "That basturd is giving us the finger"... Now those high quality Goodyear 10 ply 265x17s (mind you- 2 of them) on the rear has just compensated and have thrown back to the other side and the rim has almost touched the pavement. #@$%! Now guess what the front tires are screaming and the light side has actually come off the ground. Guess what the other front tire is now carrings 5000#s of actual load and the 2600# factory wheel pops 2 of its welds. Now just guess where your truck is, the heavy side has just hit the grass median, the other driver is just lowering his middle finger. 4 seconds has gone by. At about the same time your tandem set on the left side of the RV runs off the pavement, that is when you are in the battle of your life.



Yes, a SRW can stop great in a straight line, it can even pull Monarch Pass just as easy as my dually but when the tough gets going and your RV that out weighs your truck by 100% you need all you can put between the stripes on the road to be as safe as possible.



All the above is from personal experience that could have cost my wife and my life. She said the moment we got stopped that a dually WILL be sitting in our driveway next week and it was. One step further, my dually with 19. 5" wheels and tires is another great step over a stock dually. :-laf



Now I have stopped "chortling with glee" I will be quiet. Oo.



Very good use of a word...

chor'tler n.

Word History: "'O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. " Perhaps Lewis Carroll would chortle a bit himself to find that people are still using the word chortle, which he coined in Through the Looking-Glass, published in 1872. In any case, Carroll had constructed his word well, combining the words chuckle and snort. This type of word is called a blend or a portmanteau word. In Through the Looking-Glass Humpty Dumpty uses portmanteau to describe the word slithy, saying, "It's like a portmanteauthere are two meanings packed up into one word" (the meanings being "lithe" and "slimy").



chortle

Verb

[-tling, -tled]

to chuckle with amusement

Noun

an amused chuckle [coined by Lewis Carroll]



I certainly was not amused at the photos.
 
Last edited:
CUMMINZ, love those rear fender flares!! they look great!!



I must agree with CUMMINZ & HBARLOW on the dually, I've owned several (in excess of 10) CTD's from 89' to 04' before setlling back to my 01', about 1/2 were duallies and 1/2 were SRW, the SRW's pull great, work better in the mud and are easier to navigate & park. however for passing or a sudden need to swerve to miss something or someone at highway speeds while towing the added stability of DRW's cannot be discounted



with my 4-horse living quarter I weigh 20k+, with my tandem dual flatbed loaded with hay I weigh 30k to 35k, I would not even consider pulling with with a SRW even though the drive train and the springs would handle it, I need those other 2 wheels/tires for stability, especially if a nut pulls in front of me or I see that pesky road debri ahead.



that's why we have 2 duallies in our driveway:), mine in my signature and my wife's 04' crew cab dually powerjoke:confused:, went to buy her a dodge but she likes furds#@$%!, she's my 4th wife, repairs on her furd are cheaper than a divorce so I put up with the furd (plus I kind of like her and I think I finally found a keeper:-laf)!
 
LB, I agree with you and about the SRW in the mud I would agree. I have enclosed a photo of my rig backed into a sandy spot at White Lake, NC. Do you see the soft sand in front of my front tires. A SRW buryed himself there the day before backing his 5er. My dually floated straight thru.



#ad
 
If you want to compare the size and safety of rigs, lets do it right:

This will sting a little at first, but here are some "hard truths" about your "big ol' duallies" you probably won't like: Starting with "they ain't so big" and including "they let anyone drive them". And, considering those reasons alone, if a mere dually is the best crutch available to make the highways a tiny bit safer, then I am all for them.

Just remember, I have no interest in owning a 5th wheel at all OR a pickup camper that is too big for my truck. (Dragging a 5th wheel on vacation would just be too much like what I do for a living to let me feel I was finally on my own time. :) Like a 'busman's holiday' where a bus driver spends his entire day off riding on a danged bus. )

Many of you recreational drivers haul your big rigs almost 5ooo miles per year. Some of you are retired and pull/haul your big "5ers" (cute term) or 5th wheels 10 thousand miles a year or more. Wow. The average professional truck driver does more than 10k per month; 12 months per year.

You tend to do the majority of your driving in good weather during the summer months and in daylight hours. Your experience with your 'big rig' on snow, ice, and high winds and heavy rain is as limited as possible thanks to your good sense to avoid those hazards. For that, I sincerely thank you, since as a professional driver, I MUST be out in all those conditions and dread every encounter with RVs then.

You haul a rig, that is approaching the same size as a semi, though MUCH lighter and vulernable to wind, and you aren't even required to have a CDL or even receive any special training or pass any kind of driving test AT ALL. Your equipment is not subject to strict DOT inspections on a regular basis. The chassis is built as lightweight and cheaply as possible; especially the running gear. Gotta save weight and money somewhere so the inside can have 3 cable TV's and hardwood flooring, ya know.

It has electric/hydraulic brakes of almost adequate size to stop a vehicle grossing nearly 20,000 pounds under ideal conditions. Sure, 20k pounds is only 1/4 of a modern 80,000 pound rig with air brakes and anti-locks, but lighter rigs are often harder to handle.

I never hear you guys mention how many sets of duals your trailer axles have, btw... ? Isn't that where much of the weight is. . ? Isn't that where most of the side-to-side leverage of a tall vehicle exerts it's force. . ? Hmmm... Now what is up with that? Are tandems a substitute for duals? How do they limit sway? Gee golly...

Furthermore, any high blood pressure, diabetes, bad vision, medications, etc do not automatically disqualify you from driving those huge rigs. Your hours are not strictly regulated and you can drive as long and far as you want without rest. You need every advantage you can buy, and a dually is one of them.

A dually pickup is almost 12 inches wider in footprint in the rear and on ONE axle only and has 4 additional sidewalls. Never mind your front footprint is actually NARROWER than a single rear wheel pickup and those wheels and tires, though not as load-bearing, do all your steering.

You probably never though about that, did you? On a semi, the front wheeltrack is as wide as the outside width of the tandem duals. Your's are not.

By now you recreational drivers with your 'big rig' duallies and '5ers' are bound to be resenting me very much for the superior air this is written with. In fact, I'm sure it sounds just like you guys when you jump on every opportunity to start criticizing any single rear wheel pickup owner who wants to buy a pickup camper to fit his truck and needs.

But if recommending a recreational driver buy a dually helps at all, I'm all for it. If all I used my truck for is what many of you guys use yours for, I would have dually, too. But it wouldn't make me super-bobby-big-rig.

I only put less than 5,000 recreational miles on my RV per year, too, anymore. I am buying a pickup camper to eliminate the need to pay for year-round insurance and licensing and maintenence on a dedicated RV vehicle. So my vehicle must perform many other day-to-day tasks. There will be some compromises, which is why I want an appropriately-sized pickup camper that does NOT need a dually.

And frankly, I am a professional driver with more miles of accident-free driving under my belt and in my logbook than anyone here, I'll wager (close to 3 MILLION miles in a semi alone and not counting a single personal-vehicle mile). I know my vehicles and what they can and cannot do. I also know my own limitations. Quite frankly, I'm a better driver. Truly BIG rigs and safe driving ARE my profession. Lectures from recreational weekend warriors are amusing at best and soon become irritating. Like Piper Cub weekend flyers lecturing a 747 pilot.

Hey guys, drive whatever makes you feel more confident and safe. Drive whatever makes the rest of us safer when you are on the road. God knows I see far too many motormansions and 5th wheels in the hands of idiots with more money than brains or experience. If that "great big dually with 2 extra tires and a few inches of rear-axle-only width" makes you safer to share the road with, Please, by all means, keep your dually!

Just remember: Not everyone seeking opinions on pickup campers is a novice to Big Rigs, RV's, pickups, or driving. Not every SRW pickup owner will put up with 'airs of superiority' from guys who own identical pickups with a tiny bit wider rear-axle-only footprint.

:D
 
Last edited:
Copied



Wow! Talk about a flashback! I was vacationing in Wyoming in July of 1967 or '68. Friends who lived in Sheridan insisted we had to experience the 'Red Grade'... . we'd never forget it. I guess they were right.









They cautioned us not to try to go UP the Red Grade, saying it would have been too hard on the engine of our car. But, they recommended a longer route that took us to the top, where we could come back down on the Red Grade.









We packed a picknic basket and took the trip at a leisurely pace. It was truly one of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen. But, about a third of the way down the Red Grade we hit a really bad chuck-hole. Our driver didn't realize he'd ripped open the power brake and steering lines until it was almost too late. He jammed on the emergency brake, and we spun to a stop against a guardrail that would have made any Hollywood director proud.









I agree with your sister, it is an awesome trip, and I hope you and the kids can go. But - take lots of water, bring lots of Dramamine, and make sure your driver isn't so absorbed in the scenery that they aren't watching the road. Enjoy!

"
 
That's an excellent point, CUMMINZ. It is very hard to NOT be absorbed by the beauty of those Bighorns when driving them. We just did it a couple weeks ago in our 26 year old Class C.

I regretted having to drive and miss much of the scenery, but neither my wife or 15 year old son had the experience to handle that old camper on those mountains, imo. On the upside (literally), we were crawling along in 1st gear at 15 mph and I had plenty of time to look out the windows. The grade is 10%. The curves are non-stop. The downhill side is exhilarating. And the guy in that photo picked the shallowest edge to go over on the entire route, thank God!
 
Back
Top