Driver lost control down mountain

[jgillott]

A little off the subject, but has anyone else noticed that in general, DOT officers have been paying much more attention to non-professional towers than ever before. As I mentioned in another thread a while back, I personally had a DOT officer do a full on inspection of my personal truck and trailer as I exited the PA Turnpike last winter. I had one pallet of sand bags on my trailer, and sure enough, he motioned me over to the side as I came through the toll booth. I don't know why I was selected, but I'm sure happy that everything was in order on my end. Heck, they even dipped my tank. I've seen a couple of RV's pulled over for what appears to be the same thing in the same spot recently. Is this just a PA thing, or have you all noticed it in your area?

 

[kenny61]

I have noticed a large increase in dot inspections. When they used to be done once and a while they are now out every day. I feel it is for two reasons which one is the main reason I do not know. Increased revenue, the fines are in the thousands of dollars not a 100 or so for the regular passenger car ticket. A large increase in unlicensed illegal aliens hauling overweight loads that are improperly secured with a dumptruck and trailer that is in serious need of maint. If they are licensed they only have a passenger non cdl license. In my area these are for commercial vehicles only 10k and above. They are not inspecting RV's or pick ups towing boats etc (recreational or for personal use only loads)

In other words the state needs the money and personally I am happy when it comes out of the pocket of some of the people who have no business on the road. I do feel bad for the real professionals who are delayed by the increase in inspections however

 

[HBarlow]

I read an article in the Flying J truckstop monthly magazine about two years ago on the subject.

The article reported increased enforcement activity back then and explained that (blow-dried empty suits) Congress had abolished the old "single state registration" program which allowed trucking companies to register in their home state and declare all the states they would operate in. The home state divided up the revenues and distributed it among the other states. All states participated. The useless congress failed to replace the SSR system with a new system although that was the stated reason for cancelling the SSR program.

The result was states were suddenly deprived of millions in revenue from the old SSR program so had resorted to additional enforcement activity to replace the lost revenue.

I don't mind if it is safety and equipment oriented. I think it is a good thing to look more closely at outlaw haulers who are hauling commercially without being in compliance and RVers who are using bad or improper equipment, overloaded, etc. I was inspected lots of times when I was hauling trailers and got accustomed to it. If your equipment is good and your logbook is current it only costs a few minutes of time and makes the roads safer for all of us.

 

[Grizzly]

This incident could have more to do with money than duals. Perhaps the owner was hard pressed in this economy to keep food on the table and being both rigs well insured are now totaled, he gets a check handed to him for the replacement cost.



Kinda odd he was alone and bailed out. Not pointing fingers but with people lighting their cars on fire to get the insurance money it could have been the case here. I wouldn't point the finger at singles without all the information.

Perhaps, but then again, maybe not.

 

[SHobbs]

I think each type, single or dual has their place. It's up the the driver as to how they operate it and load it. I have towed with each and what I do like with a dually is the crosswind stability plus an extra tire incase of a blow out. That said I never had any trouble towing with a single.

 

[Grizzly]

I have no idea what caused the accident. This discussion is technical as far as I'm concerned.



I know very little about Crossroads trailer models other than the fact that I've delivered a few from the factory in Topeka, IN but that is not a 7,000 lb. trailer in the photos. It appears to be at least 32' and probably is 34' long. I think I see eight lugs on the visible wheel. That would normally indicate a GVWR of around 14,000#.



Loaded weight of an actual fifth wheel trailer, not theoretical weight on the manufacturer's brochures, with propane, fluids, and owner possessions can usually be estimated at rated GVWR, rarely much less. No trailer ever leaves the factory floor weighing what the brochures claim they weigh.



Kingpin weight would be at least 20% of GVWR, perhaps as much as 25%. A good estimate of kingpin weight of the wrecked trailer would be more like 3,000 lbs.



A fifth wheel trailer rated at 12,000 lbs. is unlikely to have a kingpin weight of "under 1600 lbs" except, possibly, on the factory brochure. In the real world kingpin weight is going to be 20% or more.

Harvey, I looked up an 02, 34' Crossroad 5th Wheel in my RV Consumer Group Guide. The published GVWR is 14,520 lbs. Incidently the 5er is rated 4 stars, which makes it a well built unit.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks, Grizzly. My estimate wasn't too far off.

 

[GaryOwen]

Looked like it was a 29' to me. I copied and zoomed into the numbers by the door. Maybe someone else with better eyes could make it out better. If it is a 29', the unloaded pin weight would be around 1700 lbs and GVWR of around 12k. Just doesn't look long enough to be a 34 footer to me, but I could be mistaken.



In any event, going down a gravel road of that grade with that load was crazy with either a SRW or a DRW. Wonder if the driver had been that route before?

 

[Grizzly]

I had a 29' HR Alumilite and that Crossroads is much bigger than the 29 footer I had.

 

[GaryOwen]

View attachment 73271



Here's a 2005 29' CrossRoads Zinger with an overall length that looks and measures similar. Used the fender skirt as a measurement guide and came out with almost exactly the same length (if the skirt is the same length for each).

 

[mopars1]

I know this is off the wall and doesn't have much to do with this thread with the exception of the ones wondering how long the trailer is, can someone with an rv measure the door width on their trailer? I would bet it is a 30" door or close to that. If you take the 30" door measurement and match it up to how many doors would fit on the side of the trailer in the picture, I came up with the trailer length of 30-32 feet. Anyone else have another way of gauging the length of the pictured trailer since there has been discussion about it from 29' to 39'? I do not own one and am just curious.

 

[GaryOwen]

The CrossRoads website says the doors on the new models are indeed 30". Also, the 29' models actually measure from 30'11" to 31'11".

 

[BHuebner]

Well not much of an update. but the guy was local or at least the trailer was registered locally. his wife was following behind in the car. from the story i was told, all she saw was the rear of the trailer going straight over the side of the mountain, as if he didnt even attempt to turn. she pulled up to the ledge to find her husband laying on the ground in the weeds. this of course was all word of mouth. never saw anything in the paper.

couple extra pics



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[Bob Cochran]

I did not know I could read minds!!!! You have made two awesome posts and cannot argue your well founded points. I love to read articulated and well thought out posts.

Harvey, I do not own, nor have I ever put, a 5 thousand pound camper on my truck. I have recently hauled several 5,000 pound loads of gravel for my driveway and dirt for my landscaping, though. And it barely sagged the rear springs and drove and handled just fine. But as you dually guys quickly pointed out, it had a much lower center of gravity.



The "tone you are surprised at" is exactly the snide tone you dually guys use on any SRW guy; and that was my point. I'm glad you didn't miss it.



I'm also glad you are better at truck driving than many truck drivers. Good for you. So am I. Especially with the losers they recruit nowadays. All the new regulations and computerized records and requirements have made many excellent drivers say "To hell with it. " and quit. It isn't what it used to be. I figure we are just a couple years from where they will surgically implant a USB port in my *** and run me entirely by friggin computer! The truck itself is just one huge computer full of unreliable crap. I used to love being a trucker; now it sucks.



At the same time, the small companies and independents can't survive due to insurance and fuel costs, leaving HUGE companies running the show. They cannot find enough drivers with what their insurance companies call "acceptable driving records". A fender-bender in your own personal car is enough to disqualify you in some cases.



So where do they find drivers to work for 18 cents per mile that have a "clean" driving record? Two places: The inner city where many young adults have never had a driver's license! Put them through a two-week school (for which they owe the company $5,000 to be deducted from their 18 cents per mile AND at least one year of servitude. PLUS they get money from the government for "job training" of minorities. They may have a criminal record as long as your arm, but they have NO driving record, good or bad, and only the bad would count anyway. So load 'er up nice and heavy with HazMat, slam the door, and tell 'em "Drive fast!" Yessiree-Bob/Shaquille/Tyrone/Muhammed, You are now a qualified trucker!!



The second place they find "clean driving records" is foreigners. Yup. There is an incredible number of Middle Easterners and mexicans who cannot even speak the language (or read road and warning signs) hauling up and down your highways right this moment. No record (or experience) at all counts as a "clean record".



Is it just possible that many of the "losers" (my term) that you passed and found in the ditch were those novices?



I'm tellin' ya folks, stay clear of Big Trucks these days. There are some INCREDIBLY incompetent drivers out there and more of them every day!!



But I'm not one of them and would be happy to convoy with you anywhere anytime, Harvey. The day any Texan outdrives me on snow and ice is the day I go to work as a door greeter at Walmart!!

 

[CUMMINZ]

Well now we know it was a SRW after all.

 

[AClayton]

I refuse to get into the DRW and SRW debate... . I realize a dually would be a better tow vehicle,however,the OP did say that it appeared her husband just drove off the mountain with the trailer attached. Maybe brakes!!!???If that is the case,A Kenworth towing the trailer couldn't have prevented the accident.



To me,the size of that trailer could have easily been towed by a SRW... . and safely!I think the stability of a dually is second to none,however,the other factor to consider when towing heavy loads is the added leverage of a 'longer' tow vehicle... . a 4 door,8' foot bed truck would not be as agile in a parking lot or campgrounds,but towing a heavy 5th wheel or TT on the highways,would be invaluable. Now,with that said,SRath could have a point,provided the tires are up to the task..... I think it would be better to tow with a longer vehicle SRW vs. a dually in a shorter configuration of cab and bed.



Alan

 

[meanmatt]

I have a new theory seen in the last pics. the truck was running a goose neck hitch. while the trailer must have had one of those adapter extensions screwed onto the king pin of the trailer . Maybe a coupling error by not locking the goose adapter to the ball. Or even a part failure . Either causing trailer to push up against the truck pushing it square. That would effect the steering ability of any truck .

 

[AClayton]

I have a new theory seen in the last pics. the truck was running a goose neck hitch. while the trailer must have had one of those adapter extensions screwed onto the king pin of the trailer . Maybe a coupling error by not locking the goose adapter to the ball. Or even a part failure . Either causing trailer to push up against the truck pushing it square. That would effect the steering ability of any truck .

I thought of that also but then looked at the back of the cab and it didn't seem evident of a disconnected hitch..... would think the back of the cab would be crushed. I am interested to see what others say about this theory as well... ... George,Cumminz..... HB?

 

[Matt400]

Maybe a coupling error by not locking the goose adapter to the ball. Or even a part failure . Either causing trailer to push up against the truck pushing it square. That would effect the steering ability of any truck .

Yes that could be but a dually would have a better chance of controlling a condition like that. . sorry couldn't resist!

 

[Grizzly]

Looked like it was a 29' to me. I copied and zoomed into the numbers by the door. Maybe someone else with better eyes could make it out better. If it is a 29', the unloaded pin weight would be around 1700 lbs and GVWR of around 12k. Just doesn't look long enough to be a 34 footer to me, but I could be mistaken.



In any event, going down a gravel road of that grade with that load was crazy with either a SRW or a DRW. Wonder if the driver had been that route before?

When you zoom into the numbers on the left side of the door, can you tell me what those numbers are. With those numbers, which is the model # of the 5er, I can look it up on my RV Consumer Group Guide and tell you everything about the trailer.



I tried to copy and zoom, but I'm not having any luck.



Thanks, george