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Driver lost control down mountain

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I have to agree with Harvey on this. Many SRW owners think their truck can do anything a DRW can do. They can get defensive and obsessed with that idea.





In my opinion, it's the other way around... the dually owners that think they can carry anything because they have six (read: two extra) wheels under them... when in reality those two extra tires add very little to the equation (usually the driver is the deciding factor).



And don't get me wrong, you can overload any vehicle... if you need to see this for yourself, just go to your local Lowe's or Home Depot.



If *I* was to buy anything requiring a higher GVW than my 2500, I would buy a smaller *medium duty* truck (4500/5500 or a medium duty International/Freightliner). I would never own a 3500 (either DRW or SRW)... why take a baby step from a 2500 to a 3500?
 
In my opinion, it's the other way around... the dually owners that think they can carry anything because they have six (read: two extra) wheels under them... when in reality those two extra tires add very little to the equation (usually the driver is the deciding factor).



And don't get me wrong, you can overload any vehicle... if you need to see this for yourself, just go to your local Lowe's or Home Depot.



If *I* was to buy anything requiring a higher GVW than my 2500, I would buy a smaller *medium duty* truck (4500/5500 or a medium duty International/Freightliner). I would never own a 3500 (either DRW or SRW)... why take a baby step from a 2500 to a 3500?







Well, we'll just have to agree that we disagree because I can't agree with anything you just said.



A dually is not just a baby step. The only disadvantage I see to having a dually is that it's very difficult to go to a drive up window at McDonalds or a bank teller.



Have you ever had a dually?
 
Have you ever had a dually?









How big?? I've driven anything from a 3500 DRW to an 18-wheeler with dual drops... I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of DRW trucks. Its all in your perspective of "big"... and the capacity difference between a 2500 and 3500 is a baby step...



Don't get me wrong... you buy what suits your needs, but a LOT of guys out there have the attitude they can tow/haul anything because they have a DRW... and that's what gets them into trouble... EGO.



There are also a lot of misinformed people out there... about capacities/capabilities. Couple that with the lack of information provided by the manufacturers... and you have the results we see on the side of that mountain.



It doesn't help that you have some salesman pushing a camper/boat/trailer that's MUCH too big for a SRW truck, just to make a sale. A guy was trying to sell the wife and I what I believe was in the 35 foot range toyhauler... it weighed nearly 18k according to the tags. Was that safe for my 2500?? According to him "I would be fine"!



Maybe I should go buy that toyhauler and show all you DRW guys how its done SWR-style?! The salesman told me I could do it! Heck, I've seen a lot of Tundras and F150s towing large 5vrs lately... why do I even need a diesel, let alone a 2500?
 
SRW's and DRW's can have very close to the same carrying capacity, unloaded a SRW is much better in the mud however in sand or the right kind of mud (depending on the soil composition and I don't mean to start another discussion on geology) a loaded DRW can sometimes outperform a loaded SRW



where DRW's bring an undisputed benefit is when loaded or pulling a load the DRW greatly reduces tow vehicle sway, twice as many sidewalls to flex means 50% less flex, twice the tread on the road means twice the traction on the road



super singles on large trucks have the same or slightly larger tread imprint as the dual wheels on large trucks, thus they have almost the same tractionb (rubber imprint on the road) but more sidewall flex than with duals, they don't put single rear wheels on the same size as on the steering axle,



the option & process to do the super single is pretty much unavailable today on 3500 SRW Dodge Rams



30 years ago in Kansas a lot of farmers and cattlemen ran what we called floatation tires on the back of their 3/4 ton pickups, they were 10 ply and aired to the max. allowed them to put almost as much rubber on the road as duals although they did not lower the sidewall flex to the degree gained by 2 tires versus 1



I hope this post doesn't start a mathmatically battle but it is simple math
 
How big?? I've driven anything from a 3500 DRW to an 18-wheeler with dual drops... I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of DRW trucks. /QUOTE]
That's not what I asked. What I asked is have our ever had a dually. Have you owned one for several years and hauled an 11' truck camper of pulled a 30' 5er with it? Have you ever pulled that much RV with a 2500 or 1500?



I'm sure glad a had a dually for the two trips to Alaska we've taken and we plan on taking many more.



To each his own. If you feel comfortable hauling an 11' camper to Alaska with a 3/4 ton truck, by all means go for it. I feel comfortable with my dually and will not go back to a 3/4 ton single wheel.



I think highly of Toyota cars and trucks, but I wouldn't pull my trailer with their 1/2 ton Trunda. I agree that a 4500 and a 5500 are bigger and stronger, but they're also more truck than I need. Call it a baby step if you want, but I feel that my 3500 DRW is the truck I need.
 
How big?? I've driven anything from a 3500 DRW to an 18-wheeler with dual drops... I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of DRW trucks. /QUOTE]
That's not what I asked. What I asked is have our ever had a dually. Have you owned one for several years and hauled an 11' truck camper of pulled a 30' 5er with it? Have you ever pulled that much RV with a 2500 or 1500?



I'm sure glad a had a dually for the two trips to Alaska we've taken and we plan on taking many more.



To each his own. If you feel comfortable hauling an 11' camper to Alaska with a 3/4 ton truck, by all means go for it. I feel comfortable with my dually and will not go back to a 3/4 ton single wheel.



I think highly of Toyota cars and trucks, but I wouldn't pull my trailer with their 1/2 ton Trunda. I agree that a 4500 and a 5500 are bigger and stronger, but they're also more truck than I need. Call it a baby step if you want, but I feel that my 3500 DRW is the truck I need.







Ummm, you totally missed my point...



I would not haul a large slide-in on a 2500... I would not abuse the truck that way. What most people attempt to do with a 2500 is excessive... yep, the truck will haul it, but for how long?



I would not haul it on a 3500DRW either... I would buy a MD truck for that task. I think most large slide-ins overtax even a 3500DRW, the one I looked at (the wife's mother works for a very large RV dealer) weighed 4700#s... you're telling me a 3500DRW is rated for a 4700# payload, a top heavy 4700#s to boot??



And yes, I have hours upon hours behind the wheel of DRW3500s... I know well what they are, and are not, capable of...
 
I feel that my 3500 DRW is the truck I need.
I think that about says it right there, I feel the same with my 2500. :)



While towing I know its maxed and drive it as such those 2-3 times per yr. The rest of the time unloaded it's way more over-kill than needed, its like driving a piece of heavy equipment to work so its all about compromise.

If I had two trucks I would have a sporty 1/2 ton for daily use and a 4500 as the tow rig but it would set collecting dust most of the time so I drive one.
 
Lots of churn on this topic - Seems to me that the bottom line is to "Know your Limitations" (Sorry Clint!) The difference between a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton seems marginal. About $700 when I bought my SRW 3500.

The debate between SRW and DRW also seems to be a matter of choice. I'm not pulling heavy 5th wheels and I prefer an SRW in the winter. As for pulling with a 2500, my buddy has had a 2nd gen 2500 (96 I think) that has pulled a 30' with slideout regularly until he bought is 08 SRW 3500. It is also used to haul a 5th wheel flat deck with water tanks and chemicals, combine headers and other farm equipment. The trailer is hauled through out western Canada and the states, including the Rockies and the truck has never missed a day or seemed over taxed. The springs were beefed up - everything else is stock. Frankly thats why he went with the CTD...
 








Ummm, you totally missed my point...



I would not haul a large slide-in on a 2500... I would not abuse the truck that way. What most people attempt to do with a 2500 is excessive... yep, the truck will haul it, but for how long?



I would not haul it on a 3500DRW either... I would buy a MD truck for that task. I think most large slide-ins overtax even a 3500DRW, the one I looked at (the wife's mother works for a very large RV dealer) weighed 4700#s... you're telling me a 3500DRW is rated for a 4700# payload, a top heavy 4700#s to boot??



And yes, I have hours upon hours behind the wheel of DRW3500s... I know well what they are, and are not, capable of...








No steved, I didn't miss your point. The truth is you have never owned a dually. I don't care how many hours you have logged driving one, if you have never owned one and used it for personal use for years hauling heavy loads, you really don't know.
 
Griz and Steve, you both have made your points and I think I see where both of you are coming from. I enjoy your posts and the info and insight you share. However, I'm asking you both to chill out and help keep TDR a cut above other forums. Mark
 
Griz and Steve, you both have made your points and I think I see where both of you are coming from. I enjoy your posts and the info and insight you share. However, I'm asking you both to chill out and help keep TDR a cut above other forums. Mark







You're absolutely right. Enough has been said and resaid. :)
 
Well they pulled the truck & trailer back up the hill next to the road. shot these photos today on our way up to go 4-Wheeling.



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Are the missing lug nuts a sign of a backyard brake job? Makes one wonder what other mechanical deficiencies the truck had.



Thanks for the pictures.
 
quote "I'm surprised that you, a CDL driver with millions of miles of driving under your belt would knowingly haul a 5,000 lb. or heavier slide-in camper on a 2500 series truck with single tires and claim it's safe. "



Don't think they make a slide in >5000 lbs.
 
If you want to compare the size and safety of rigs, lets do it right:



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This will sting a little at first, but here are some "hard truths" about your "big ol' duallies" you probably won't like: Starting with "they ain't so big" and including "they let anyone drive them". And, considering those reasons alone, if a mere dually is the best crutch available to make the highways a tiny bit safer, then I am all for them.



Just remember, I have no interest in owning a 5th wheel at all OR a pickup camper that is too big for my truck. (Dragging a 5th wheel on vacation would just be too much like what I do for a living to let me feel I was finally on my own time. Like a 'busman's holiday' where a bus driver spends his entire day off riding on a danged bus. )



Many of you recreational drivers haul your big rigs almost 5ooo miles per year. Some of you are retired and pull/haul your big "5ers" (cute term) or 5th wheels 10 thousand miles a year or more. Wow. The average professional truck driver does more than 10k per month; 12 months per year.



You tend to do the majority of your driving in good weather during the summer months and in daylight hours. Your experience with your 'big rig' on snow, ice, and high winds and heavy rain is as limited as possible thanks to your good sense to avoid those hazards. For that, I sincerely thank you, since as a professional driver, I MUST be out in all those conditions and dread every encounter with RVs then.



You haul a rig, that is approaching the same size as a semi, though MUCH lighter and vulernable to wind, and you aren't even required to have a CDL or even receive any special training or pass any kind of driving test AT ALL. Your equipment is not subject to strict DOT inspections on a regular basis. The chassis is built as lightweight and cheaply as possible; especially the running gear. Gotta save weight and money somewhere so the inside can have 3 cable TV's and hardwood flooring, ya know.



It has electric/hydraulic brakes of almost adequate size to stop a vehicle grossing nearly 20,000 pounds under ideal conditions. Sure, 20k pounds is only 1/4 of a modern 80,000 pound rig with air brakes and anti-locks, but lighter rigs are often harder to handle.



I never hear you guys mention how many sets of duals your trailer axles have, btw... ? Isn't that where much of the weight is. . ? Isn't that where most of the side-to-side leverage of a tall vehicle exerts it's force. . ? Hmmm... Now what is up with that? Are tandems a substitute for duals? How do they limit sway? Gee golly...



Furthermore, any high blood pressure, diabetes, bad vision, medications, etc do not automatically disqualify you from driving those huge rigs. Your hours are not strictly regulated and you can drive as long and far as you want without rest. You need every advantage you can buy, and a dually is one of them.



A dually pickup is almost 12 inches wider in footprint in the rear and on ONE axle only and has 4 additional sidewalls. Never mind your front footprint is actually NARROWER than a single rear wheel pickup and those wheels and tires, though not as load-bearing, do all your steering.



You probably never though about that, did you? On a semi, the front wheeltrack is as wide as the outside width of the tandem duals. Your's are not.



By now you recreational drivers with your 'big rig' duallies and '5ers' are bound to be resenting me very much for the superior air this is written with. In fact, I'm sure it sounds just like you guys when you jump on every opportunity to start criticizing any single rear wheel pickup owner who wants to buy a pickup camper to fit his truck and needs.



But if recommending a recreational driver buy a dually helps at all, I'm all for it. If all I used my truck for is what many of you guys use yours for, I would have dually, too. But it wouldn't make me super-bobby-big-rig.



I only put less than 5,000 recreational miles on my RV per year, too, anymore. I am buying a pickup camper to eliminate the need to pay for year-round insurance and licensing and maintenence on a dedicated RV vehicle. So my vehicle must perform many other day-to-day tasks. There will be some compromises, which is why I want an appropriately-sized pickup camper that does NOT need a dually.



And frankly, I am a professional driver with more miles of accident-free driving under my belt and in my logbook than anyone here, I'll wager (close to 3 MILLION miles in a semi alone and not counting a single personal-vehicle mile). I know my vehicles and what they can and cannot do. I also know my own limitations. Quite frankly, I'm a better driver. Truly BIG rigs and safe driving ARE my profession. Lectures from recreational weekend warriors are amusing at best and soon become irritating. Like Piper Cub weekend flyers lecturing a 747 pilot.



Hey guys, drive whatever makes you feel more confident and safe. Drive whatever makes the rest of us safer when you are on the road. God knows I see far too many motormansions and 5th wheels in the hands of idiots with more money than brains or experience. If that "great big dually with 2 extra tires and a few inches of rear-axle-only width" makes you safer to share the road with, Please, by all means, keep your dually!



Just remember: Not everyone seeking opinions on pickup campers is a novice to Big Rigs, RV's, pickups, or driving. Not every SRW pickup owner will put up with 'airs of superiority' from guys who own identical pickups with a tiny bit wider rear-axle-only footprint.



Over the many years of lurking in, not only this but other forms, this has to be the best post I have ever read! Facts hurt, most don't want to face em. Seen too many yahoos flying up and down the highways pulling their monster "5ers" some pulling tandem(boats/ATV trailers). Hell even had one pass me with grandma and grandkids sitting at the table palying cards, while the big rig wanna be was cruising carelessly well over the posted speed limit!



I like the DRW for the "cool" factor, my SWR 3500 is better suited for what I do, hauling 2500lbs of speciality tools and my 8k equipment trailer in the mud, snow and ice.



Thank you SRath, very well done sir!
 
Everything Scott Rath writes is very well written and always makes a lot of sense. He is one of the best writers on TDR and one of the most experienced drivers as well but . . .

I hope Scott's CDL and three million miles of professional driving will save his *** and his family when he blows a rear tire on a SRW truck while hauling a heavy and top heavy slide-in at the very maximum static load limit and capability of the rear tires. The uprated rear tires of a SRW truck may be rated to carry a very heavy slide-in at maximum inflation pressure when parked but how about the dynamic load on a curve or when driving into a quartering wind that leans the truck over at an angle for hours of driving when headed west out of IA on I-80?

It takes more than convincing words written on TDR forums to actually BE safe. Each to his own, I always say.
 
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