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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Detroit Locker for Dana 80 with 3.54 gears

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SRath your ratchet analogy was very helpful, basically as you turn the inside wheel powers the vehicle until the faster one "catches" up and matches speed again. Makes a lot of sense.

I like the idea of the drop-in benefit of the PowerTrax but one shop I talked to said you can't get them for '94+ Dana 70s. . . is this true? Maybe it's because I already have a LSD carrier (and it's for an open carrier). I might see if I can get the carrier I originally had (my '98 was open dif originally).

Since the axle is torn down I'll probably go with the Detroit, there is supposedly a "Detroit Soft Locker" aka the new version of Detroit.

What is a typical price for a Detroit unit? Are Dana 70s typically 32-spline? I have the 3. 54 ratio if that makes any difference.

As far as driving in ice & snow I've done that plenty with this truck with a tight LSD and know how to "4-wheel steer" it, I'm used to the fishtailing rearend thing. Last winter climbing elevation going southbound out of Bend OR the highway was virtual ice, if it wasn't for my LSD I wouldn't have made it, would've had to chain up for sure.

Vaughn
 
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It is best to pull and axle shaft and count the number of splines. The other option, is to get the numbers off of the tag on your rear axle. I think the number starts with a 9 and is about 7 or 8 digits long. The shop you buy your Detroit Soft Locker from, can take your numbers and run it for the specs on your axle.
 
That soft locker version is supposed to address some of the noise and harshness concerns that some folks have, Vaughn. I simply haven't had those issues, nor have I ever been in a vehicle with a Soft version. Tractech is a name I trust so I don't think they would make something that did not work. Call and talk to a tech guy. Go to some hardcore 4 wheeling websites. Those guys put everything to the torture test. Few here on TDR are truly hardcore 'wheelers by their standards. I know I'm not. I don't point my truck at a mountain of boulders bigger than houses and expect to somehow climb them like those guys do.



I'm a midwest mud and snow 'wheeler, and even then more by necessity (it was an obstacle between me and where I wanted to go) than by hobby (lets go out and see who can get the most spectacularly stuck and break the most parts).



A PowerTrax does require an open differential. If you have a factory limited slip, you will need to have an entirely different carrier set up with either a Detroit or a PowerTrax, so I doubt there would be much price difference.



The last Detroit I bought was for my old-style K30 Chevy with a 14 bolt open carrier. Those usually sell for about $300 these days while most other Detroits were (then) about $600. I actually bought my drop-in unit new-in-the-box on ebay for $250 with shipping. Price varies quite a bit depending on the axle since they have to make a whole new carrier except for the 14 bolts.



JD is right. You really need to know exactly what your axle spline count is as well as your gear ratio before you order. The best way is to count splines and teeth, imo.



Lockers are "low center seeking" on very slick surfaces. A spinning tire offers near-zero traction and can as easily go sideways as forward. The same holds true when braking for a locked-up and skidding tire. They can go any direction.



Trust me, I have had to literally outrun many semi trailers, singles and doubles, that I was pulling on ice in order to drive out of a jacknife! A trailer with locked up brakes can and will pass the tractor! that is why empty trailers are so dangerous. The brakes are designed to stop heavy loads and they (too) easily lock up the wheels under even the gentlest brake application when there is no load, especially on wet or icy roads. One of the hardest things to do when life turns to crap on ice is to deliberately apply more power and speed, but that is what you must do to get the trailer(s) back behind you sometimes.



Anti-lock brakes were designed specifically for this reason. Too many folks do not know how to drive without them and are too reliant on them these days. Not me. When they work right, they are great, but they tend to take away too much control sometimes.



Again, just like driving with a locker, you simply need to be aware of how your vehicle drives and stops and handles under every condition and drive accordingly.



With an open diff on ice, you have one tire spinning and the other stationary and acting as an anchor and resisting sideways sliding. It isn't helping to propel your vehicle, but it does help limit sideways sliding a little bit. This why you will hear some guys (not me) claim that an open diff is better than a locker on snow and ice.



If you apply too much power to a locker, or limited slip, on icy surfaces and get both tires spinning, the rear-end of your vehicle will slide wherever gravity and momentum takes it. Don't blame the locker. Learn to control your right foot and simply don't DO that!



Remember: Most handling problems can be traced directly to the nut on the steering wheel, brake pedal and throttle!



Of course, on ice that slick, even an open diff cannot stop a sideways slide on a an off-camber surface. Ice is ice.



This all holds true for hillsides, too. If creeping around the slope of a hill, keep your power under control or your rearend will slide downhill. Having an open diff does not guarantee the non-spinning tire can or will be able to hold the vehicle either.



I like all the control I can get. With an open diff or limited slip you have NO control over which tire(s) drive or spin or when. A Detroit guarantees both are being driven all the time.



As you pointed out, you must learn how to drive a locker. It is a great tool, but it is different and you adjust your driving accordingly.



The truly tough old Chevy's with 14 bolt rears did not come from the factory with "limited slips" to the best of my experience. They DID, however, frequently come factory-equipped with a LOCKER. It was called the "GovLok" and was a more complex design that involved internal flyweights (governor) that sensed wheel spin and locked the diff. And I do mean locked. They sometimes are accused of being prone to breakage, but I had one pickup that I drove for many years that had one and it worked about as good as a Detroit and never gave me any problems.



That proves that GM was not afraid of the handling characteristics of locker-equipped trucks. Check out most any surplus military Chevy and you will find either a Detroit or a GovLok in the rear 14 bolt. they were standard equipment on military vehicles because they WORK and are reliable.
 
If you are running an open differential now, the posi unit in your link, will be a big difference. You need to decide how long you are going to keep the truck and what kind of duties you are going to use the truck for. My truck came with the posi in it and works great, but for what I want to do with the truck, I am going to install the Detroit Locker in the rear and an E-Locker in the front. The nice thing about the one on ebay is that it is completely rebuilt.
 
Vaughn, That unit on ebay is a limited slip, not a locker (notice the clutches?). It is real easy to confuse the names PowerTrax and PowerLok. The name PowerLok is very deceiving, too, since it is NOT a locker.

And, personally, I think $400 is too much for a used unit. I bought a PowerLok unit for my Dana 60 used for under $250 on ebay.

JD is going to have a heckuva truck with that combination he plans for his axles! I would be very happy with that setup. I'm sure he will cruise right past guys stuck in 4wd with and without rear limited slips while he is still in Detroit Locker'ed 2wd. Lockers are that good.
 
Thanks for the tutorial guys, now I know what a locker is. Probably wont get one, thers precious little snow/ice down heah and I am a confirmed asphalt driver too!

Ken
 
Vaughn, That unit on ebay is a limited slip, not a locker (notice the clutches?). It is real easy to confuse the names PowerTrax and PowerLok. The name PowerLok is very deceiving, too, since it is NOT a locker.

And, personally, I think $400 is too much for a used unit. I bought a PowerLok unit for my Dana 60 used for under $250 on ebay.

I kinda figured that out after posting. Actually I'm pretty sure that's what I have now.

I found a guy with a Detroit locker on Craigsist but it's a Dana 70 out of an older Ford and it's 35 spline. Any idea if that would work if I swap the axles too? I don't think his axles would work since they're offset (one is about 3" longer than the other). He wants my Power-Lok and will trade plus a little cash but I don't know if it would work out. Are the 35 spline axles weaker or stronger or what's the main difference?

Vaughn
 
A Detroit Locker for a Dana 70 should be the same, whether it is in a Dodge or Ford. I do not remember what the spline count is, for the Dana 70 in a Dodge truck, but think you have 35 sline shafts. That posi on ebay you had the link to, was a 35 spline. The higher the spline count, the larger diameter the axle shaft. You need to get the part number of the Detroit, or what gear ratio he has in the Ford. There is a difference in differentials, 4. 56 and up axle ratio and there are a couple that work with all ratios.
 
A Detroit Locker for a Dana 70 should be the same, whether it is in a Dodge or Ford. I do not remember what the spline count is, for the Dana 70 in a Dodge truck, but think you have 35 sline shafts. That posi on ebay you had the link to, was a 35 spline. The higher the spline count, the larger diameter the axle shaft. You need to get the part number of the Detroit, or what gear ratio he has in the Ford. There is a difference in differentials, 4. 56 and up axle ratio and there are a couple that work with all ratios.



The shop working on my axle said mine is 32 spline, the other interesting thing is the Detroit for 32 spline is a LOT more expensive than the 35 for whatever reason.



The guy I'm talking to has 4. 10 gears so I should be good there.



Vaughn
 
The Dana 80 in the Dodge trucks have 35 spline. I am wondering if the length is the same. If so, you could get a set of used shafts. Otherwise, I think you will spend around $350 for a pair of Moser, Superior or Dutchman shafts.
 
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