2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission which leveling kit or new springs??

[LBARTLETT]

I've read all the post & comparisons, tyring to get by as cheap as I can,



first I've used the spacers, don't like them and my springs are weak and need replaced, 2nd, if I do anything other than stock springs I want control arms, I do not like the wheel moved back in the wheel well, control arm bushings are shot, new end-links and sway bar bushings 20K miles ago. 1 ton dually QC 01' model, daily driver & pull a 4 horse trailer or a flatbed w/10 tons of hay



ride is issue #1, looks/leveling is 2nd



1) Kore HP 2" leveling kit $385 + 2 rear bilsteins $135 + control arms $240 total $760



2) Skyjacker 2" leveling ft spings $191 + 4 bilsteins $275 + control arms $240 total $706



3) Top Gun (probably Rough Country) 3" lift includes ft springs, contol arms, 2 2" rear add a leafs, rough country 8000 shocks total $671



4) don't know but the cheapest probably would be stock springs, bilsteins and control arm bushings



all leveling/lift kits above say end links, brake lines, everything else is ok



anybody have experience with doing it this cheap way?



thanks in advance

 

[Joe Mc]

I kept the stock springs and used the Top Gunz Leveling kit 2" 94-02 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 4x4 Leveling Lift Kit - Top Gun Customz

$79



and



My control arm bushings were toast, so I replaced the upper and lower arms with Top Gunz as well

94-02 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Custom Length Control Arms - Top Gun Customz

$240



I already had the Blue/Yellow Bilsteins got them on a TDR group purchase for $69/pair. Geno's Garage has them at the same price

BILSTEIN SHOCKS (YELLOW/BLUE) - FRONT 4WD ('94-'02 DODGE)-Dodge Cummins Diesel Truck Accessories – Geno’s Garage (front 4 X 4) $70 and BILSTEIN SHOCKS (YELLOW/BLUE) - REAR 4WD ('94-'02 DODGE)-Dodge Cummins Diesel Truck Accessories – Geno’s Garage (rear 4 X 4) $70



So the total is . . . $459 + Shipping.



Understand you need new springs though so if you minus the leveling kit = $380 and add these 2-2. 5" 94-02 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 V10/CUMM Coil Springs - Top Gun Customz for $191



That brings you to $571 = shipping.



So this last deal gives you new springs w/2. 5" of leveling, 4 new Bilsteins and new "easily" serviceable upper and lower control arms.



Somethings to think about:

1- I've heard on the TDR if you raise the front end (even leveling it) it'll wander on you, with a load, as the front is now higher than the rear (with load) - so you may consider trying to find some stock height replacement springs. Don't know personally because I never tow, but it makes sense . . .

2- I've have only experience with the Bilstein shocks and in my opinion: a) their only weak link is the top bushings on the front springs, so re-use the top stock bushing set-up and washers = do it during installation, totally throw away the top front shock bushings, garbage. b) If my Bilsteins went bad I replace with the same.

3- Don't even consider replacing the stock POS control arm bushings, the bushings alone will cost you more than after-market complete serviceable arms and (MHO) why replace junk with new junk? The stamped stock arms are inferior to even the inexpensive Top Gunz set.



Something else - if you raise (even level) the front end your differential will be off-set more that ever to the left of the truck because you've added more angle to the track bar = pulled the diff to the left. You should consider one of the 3rd gen adjustable track bar set-ups out there - like DSS. I wish I had done mine years sooner than I did.



Hope this helps.

 

[SRath]

there is an ebay seller that makes spacers to any size you want. they seem to be very well made, and I have considered a 1 1/2" spacer. An inch would probably be enough. I don't want my frontend higher than my rear, and 2" would be too much. I think the front should be slightly lower so that a moderate load in the bed just levels the truck.

My 2500 supposedly was special-ordered with 3500 springs, and given the age and the fact it carries a nearly 1000 lb snowplow way out front during the winter, I tend to believe the front springs are heavier than other 2500 Dodges I have seen.

 

[LBARTLETT]

Thanks to both of you, SRath, I've thought about getting the snowplow springs if I knew I wouldn't get a rougher ride



JoeMc, I'm really leaning towards the Top Guns springs and control arms like you said, I'm not overly worried about my truck becoming nose high when towing as I think my Timbrens will take care of that.



I'll have a problem with the stock shock bushings though, I have Monroes on that I needed in a jam and couldn't wait for Bilsteins.



thanks again for your thoughts/advice

 

[AClayton]

Last year I started a thread about leveling my truck and was given the advice to purchase the Rough Country from Top Gunz. That lift kit raised the front of my truck 3" and leveled it perfectly with no rear lift added..... still have the add-a-leaves in a box,however the extremely harsh ride prompted me to replace the springs with the KORE HP kit. I kept the control arms from the lift and simply added the HP's in to replace the RC's. The HP's were 2. 5" and it did lower the front a little but the added comfort they provided made the truck driveable again.



Do not purchase the RC kit if you're concerned with ride quality!!!



Get an aftermarket track bar suitable up to 3" lift and re-line the front-end.



Alan

 

[LBARTLETT]

thanks AClayton, my wife hates to ride in my truck the way it is so I won't go with their lift, I'll either do the HP or get the skyjackers from them plus their control arms of some stock type replacements

 

[Hammer]

I have mine all done up front and it drives fantastic... .



I started with the SkyJacker D25 coils instead of the spacers as I didn't like the way they looked when done. I then added a Solid Steel 3rd gen Trac bar Conversion and a DSS Brace to firm up and protect the steering box as I knew I was going to a 35" tire. I originally used the Solid Steel Lower Control arms but after having the 35's hit the left inner fenderwell I had to make a change as it annoyed me. The truck back then was shod with SkyJacker Shocks also in 3 over for the front.



That change came in three steps at the time...

The first was adding more shock up front. I am a firm believer that our trucks with the weight the front carries do not have enough shock. That means they wear out faster and get soft sooner and it seems many trucks destroy the left front shock first(I never have yet figured out why that happens). I bought a double shock kit from BDS suspension and used Bilstein 5100's,4 of them up front and 2 rear and they were all for a 3 over suspension.



The second was new control arms made by a member from another forum board that were 1/2" longer to help recenter the front axle and fix my tire hitting issue. The arms are made with moly tubing and the lowers are double walled for strength and he uses Ballistic Joints instead of rubber or poly bushings. This really frees up the front end and allows alot of articulation and the truck just goes with the road. No more bumps or bridge seams making the front skitter around and twitch,it just drives right over them nice and smooth. I will put a phot of them below for you to see.



The last thing I did was to raise the rear of the truck... dooooohhhhhh!!!!!

After leveling the front I HATED the way the truck sat on level ground at shows. It looked like the nose was higher than the rear so it was time to fix that and gain my rear high stance back(makes me wonder why I even leveled it at all now). I took the rear springs out of the truck and had a extra ply added to them which raised the rear of the truck 3" and made it sit 1" higher than the front. When we put the prings back in we used 3/4" axle u-bolts to ensure no movement and it has been that way ever since.



Now that I am done I often wonder why I even leveled the truck. From that point on all I did was chase more mousetraps until I had the suspension right. It took a while to get it done and the finished product looks nice while sitting out at shows and drives straight as an arrow at any speed. If I had it to do all over again,the one thing I would change is to go to a better aftermarket shock like a Fox,King or Sway-A-Way. That will probably be my next step as I am very disappointed in how bad my Bilstiens look after one winters driving.



I hope that helps some and if you have a question feel free to ask..... Andy



P. S-I put a couple of shots for you below... .

First two show the arms installed and the third one is the arms on my tailgate.

The bottom shot is from the NADM show at Numidia this year of my truck in the field.



#ad

 

[Dave M]

I hope that helps some and if you have a question feel free to ask..... Andy

Andy, I love the looks of your truck and those suspension mods have me drooling. I've been thinking my front shocks are sagging and need replaced and I want a better ride than the stiff ride I have now. I am considering what to do to improve ride quaslity like... leveling kits, Kore kits, better shocks (like Fox) and lifting 2-3 inches. What is the purpose of the leveling kit?... . is it to accomodate larger tires? I have stock tires so would a leveling kit make sense?



I have the 3rd gen adj TB and am looking at doing the "Y" to "T" 99 conversion for the steering. I now am still looking for better ride quality and I believe my coils/shocks need replaced. I can accomodate a 2-3 inch lift with my TB but do I need that lift or just get stock length better quality springs?



thanks,

Dave

 

[Hammer]

Dave...

It depends on the look you want when it comes to a leveling kit. I did mine because I wanted the front even with the rear and to accommodate the bigger 315's. If I wouldn't have gone to the taller tires and stayed with the 285's I would have never leveled the truck at all knowing what I know now. The front coils may over time get a tad soft and sag some but usually unless your working your truck hard its not a issue at all.



As for shocks...

The absolute hands down best shock I have ever had on my truck was the Edelbrock Performer IAS. They would still be on the truck IF I wouldn't have leveled the front as they were too short to be used once the front went up. At the time of the lift Edelbrock had no longer shock options for those who went above stock ride height. They now do have that option and were brought to my attention today by my 4wd shop. I am going to research the new remote reservoir Edelbrock shocks some before I make a choice on another shock. I will say this,1 winter of daily driving and the finish on my Bilstein 5100's is junk,one would think that for the money spent on them they would have had a finish that would have lasted more than 1 winter.



The biggest improvement which helped my ride quality was the Titan Machine front control arms. Mitchell's use of Ballistic Joints has really freed up the front end tremendously and made the truck drive like a different vehicle. I had them made longer to recenter the axle and allow the larger tires to clear the inner fender well. My truck already had the steering due to when it was built.



As I have said about the mousetrap's...

With lifting the truck and going to the 35" tire I have come to the conclusion that I am going to have to make a change in gearing next. While the 3. 54's are nice for highway driving the taller tires,along with my cam and turbo combination,kinda keep the motor out of its power band and I am in belief that a set of 4. 10's would be a better fit. So since I am going to gear the truck some and have to tear it down to do it I am going to next add a set of ARB lockers and do the EMS front hub conversion.



Thanks for the comments on the truck and at 208,000 miles it has been a blast to own and it just keeps getting better... ... ... . Andy

 

[Dave M]

Andy, Thanks for your asessment of the leveling kit and your shocks and control arms. That gives me something to think about. I want to change coil springs because I have a hunch they are contributing to the poor front end handling. I'm also hoping the T steering will improve the handling. I've spent a bunch on the front end and am still not satisfied with it.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[Smentkowski]

Hammer,



The double shock kit from BDS suspension that you have does it use the same Bilstein 5100 that is in coil on the outsude of the coil or do you have to use a differnet Bilstein 5100. Thanks for any info.



Anthony

 

[Arctic Taco]

I put on the HBS 2. 5" spacer and now am in the parts adding business myself, Adjusting the Rare parts track bar this week to see if that will allow me to retire the border collies I need to keep the truck from wandering too much on a dirt road. New bilsteins-blue/yellow ones and sway bar links as well as urethane sway bar bushings. We'll see where it goes from there.

 

[SRath]

Andy's truck is SO nice... Unbelievable!



If I parked mine in his driveway, I wonder if any of that would rub off?

 

[kenny61]

Andy's truck is SO nice... Unbelievable!



If I parked mine in his driveway, I wonder if any of that would rub off?

Depends how "close" you park :-laf

 

[rivercat]

Joe M C,

I have a set of Energy control arm bushings from summit, Its just the urethane " rubbers" no steel bushings.

When you took yours apart were the steel bushings worn too or just the stock rubbers?

Where do you get the steel inserts?




Hammer,
So the ride quality and handling is much better with the D25s than with leveling spacers and stock coils?

I am tired of my 5" lift and want to go down some (kid on the way) but not all the way to stock, im running 35s on 3gen alloys.

Is the d25s what I want for the best ride and steering?

anyone want a deal on a 5" lift?