Injector Questions - What causes this ?

[TCDiesel]

Water separators’ don't work well with the new fuels, the best luck we have had is with the Hydroscopic media filters, T&C was tip off back in 04 from a reliable source from Cummins that the Factory filtration for water was inadequate on 5. 9 Dodge Cummins applications,(it seems to just get the job done for Particles) . It was at DC demand that system only used 1 filter and was engine mounted. The only way to almost guarantee that the injection system will not be affected by contamination is to install Auxiliary tank with correct filtering and then pump to primary Factory tank. The correct filtering will drop 16 GPM pump to 5 GPM even the most robust aftermarket pump will not suffice for treatment to engine function, again this may sound like over kill, but it’s the only to 99% surety, Now add Bio-Diesel to this equation and a new set of problems develop, all of this can become with just the knowledge of its existence.

 

[TKarnas]

I find it very troublesome that Dodge/Cummins would allow this to happen to these trucks. If Dodge/Cummins new that the filtration was undersized or incorrect why not send something to the owners. I for one would have footed the bill to put something in to save my truck. Now im fased with either patching the truck up and selling it or paying someone 6K plus to fix the problem. Needless to say I am not happy with the outcome and have decided to sell this truck mostly due to not having 6K laying around. This pains me to do as I liked the truck and felt that this was a good combination of truck/motor. I have ran diesel tractors and another GM Diesel truck and never had to worry about this issue before. If a little water was i nthe fuel the serators would take it out.



I think back if I could have done something different with the truck and I believe not. I would change my fuel filter / Oil filter ever 5000 miles, drain the fuel can every 3000 miles and I still get this. Either the person prior to me owning the truck did this or the truck could not handle ~ 2900 miles of water. I am starting to understand why people have mix emotions over these trucks.

 

[B.G. Smith]

I had a steel tank in the previous truck I owned, after a few years I got lots of rusty looking gunk in the filter I had installed from the aux. tank to main tank. I was just wondering if you might have an extra tank or if the previous owner had one maybe? bg PS By the way, that truck was a 99 with the Vp-44, it had 125,000 on it when I sold it, lift pump was replaced ealy on but no other fuel related problems.

 

[mwilson]

That's a good thought, BG.

Had to be something out of the ordinary I would think. I have not been into my fuel system any deeper than the fuel filter, but the bottom of the canister is always clean at filter change time. My odometer flipped to 90,000 miles on the way in this morning. I hope that the creeping crud in the fuel system does not happen to me.

 

[steved]

How would the condition of the outside of the injector tubes be indicative of fuel quality?

Ummm, thank you? I was wondering the same thing. The fuel doen't flow outside the crossover tubes... whatever caused that rust was in the crankcase.



My bad, I see Sag2 answered this question... I did not know fuel flowed back over them. I would have expected mine to look as bad, Lloyd?

 

[hsmith]

For what it is worth, locking fuel caps are easily removed with channel locks!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

branded fuel or mom & pop station

I was wanting to know if your fuel stop is branded or a mon and pop station that buys their fuel from the lowest bid per gal. If its from the lowest bid you really dont know about quality of fuel . Could be some bad trans mix fuel . Ive seen some really bad fuel go into tanks in my years of driving fuel trucks.

 

[Ncostello]

Doesn't ULSD naturally "absorb" more moisture than 500ppm or higher fuel? I've always used Stanadyne PF in everything diesel for at least 12-13 years. I've never seen anything like this on any injectors I've had out.

 

[JJPage]

I know this statement may rankle a few folks, I am going to say it regardless.



Early in the Smarty programming, Marco was having a difficult time programming... . from Italy to the good old USA, something changed.



What he discovered was, our fuel is crap! period! Diesel fuel in Europe is of higher quality than in the USA.



That is not because we can't produce quality fuel, we have people(can't call them folks), who stand in our way, it's not a secret, you know who they are.



Time to get off your butt, vote next month!



This whole problem can be remedied, for a whole lot less money than has been spent by "our" government in the last week!



There you go.



EDIT: I Apologize in advance, this is not what you asked in your post.

 

[TKarnas]

I was wanting to know if your fuel stop is branded or a mon and pop station that buys their fuel from the lowest bid per gal. If its from the lowest bid you really dont know about quality of fuel . Could be some bad trans mix fuel . Ive seen some really bad fuel go into tanks in my years of driving fuel trucks.

Not sure if this is to meas there are several conversations going on but, I use Rutters Diesel. Its more of a local chain in PA. I have always seen Rutters tankers putting fuel in.



with my luck my issue is most likely from this fuel, but in my location this was the only stop with 15 min drive that truckers could use and turned over the fuel quickly.

 

[Wingate]

Multiple step filtration is definitely the way to go. The filters will last longer. There are more to buy when its time for a P/M, but atleast you aren't on the side of the road changing them. I know everybody has their own ideas about fuel additives... . personally, I run the Caterpillar fuel conditioner, reasons are I have watched it in use for over 5 years and I feel VERY confident that it does help prolong fuel system life and I get it at a discount.

I'm pondering the fuel temperature idea though..... I've personally seen lots of failed injectors from excessive heat. Whether it be from low fuel pressure/volume not cooling the injectors, or just excessively hot fuel in good volume/pressure. Stands to reason that it could be a contributing factor... .

Harvey Barlow... . while I don't have the seniority that you have on this site... . (post count, NOT age!!hahhaha. . ) Is it just me, or when it comes to fuel system failures on the newer engines, more often than not, the vehicles are up north, or way out west??... May just be coincidence... ... but it almost seems that there is a definite fuel quality difference. . ?????

 

[mwilson]

I'm not Harvey but I will throw this out, up in my corner of the world we are (or were) sold cut (mixed with kerosene) fuel during the cold weather months. They start with an 80/20 mix, then 70/30 and if it gets real cold I have seen them do a 50/50 mix but it has been a few years since I have heard of the distibutors going to that extreme. Add kerosene, lose lubricity... ... ... ... .

Maybe that adds to your regional theory??

Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ..... Is it just me, or when it comes to fuel system failures on the newer engines, more often than not, the vehicles are up north, or way out west??... May just be coincidence... ... but it almost seems that there is a definite fuel quality difference. . ?????

Wingate,

You may be on to something. Fuel supplies are almost certainly different from region to region. Some retail chains or locations probably do a better job of keeping their tanks, equipment, and fuel clean than others as well.

I haven't been on the road anywhere near as much with my current truck as the previous two and not on the road as much for the past two years as I was before. My two previous trucks accumulated high mileage running all over the US and Canada without a single fuel issue. I bought fuel in almost every region of the US and very heavily in some regions. As I have posted before, I have always preferrred Flying J stations and almost all my fuel has been purchased from FJs. FJ has suffered from bad financial mistakes, has declined, and is now owned by Pilot so things could change at FJ.

Mike,

Your discussion of filtration system development efforts by the big truck manufacturers was interesting. My guess is the quality or cleanliness of nationwide fuel supplies is not great and will plug tight filters fairly quickly. Most owners or operators don't want to change fuel filters weekly. That forces manufacturers to compromise with what they consider adequate filtration instead of excellent filters.

Your question about fuel temperature to the injectors was new to me. I had not thought of the possible negative effect of the temperature increase caused by constant recycling. I assumed that was a good thing for operating in cold weather. Maybe somebody who truly knows will offer an opinion on that.

 

[sag2]

Wingate,





Your question about fuel temperature to the injectors was new to me. I had not thought of the possible negative effect of the temperature increase caused by constant recycling. I assumed that was a good thing for operating in cold weather. Maybe somebody who truly knows will offer an opinion on that.

Sprinter uses a fuel cooler in their system. Not sure if they have any better life with fuel system than Dodge does.

 

[ctdodgeram]

Seeing he aparently is not the first owner, has anyone considered the possibility of the truck being submerged at some point in its' life?

 

[BIGNASTY]

I have a 04 and took it into the shop for a noise I thought was a injector going south. They send me these photos. What causes this ?

I took your pics into our lab rat at work. He is the QC guy he said it looks like ethanol contam. Sometimes drivers should but dont always drain tanks very well where I work we cannot haul diesel before an ethanol load or ethanol after a diesel load. In CA ( dont know about other states)ethanol loads have a bit of gas in it so the ethanol cant be used in drinks but diesel and ethanol cannot be mixed. We have outside company trucks drop ethanol loads and pick up other loads going to who knows where kind of makes you wonder what you get at a fuel stop???

 

[mini14]

ever since the change to ulsdmy hinotrucks steel tanks have rusted on the inside, it has racor primery and a smaller 5mic secondary, factory installed. I change them once a year and drain the racor 2-3 times a year before the change. When i change them they r filled with rust and about 3oz of water everytime. When i pulled all the steel lies off my 99 ram to put pusher pump and big line kit on all the lines were covered on the inside with rust. Before the switch to ulsd there wasent any rust at all and my original vp was doing good. 2 months after the switch to ulsd my vp died. Im considering getting a 100gal aluminum tank, adding a primery and secondary filter system and using that to fill everything up. At least dodge was smart to use plastic tanks.