Real Jake?

[retirednak]

I'm in town yesterday and I hear a Jake brake without air brakes and I look over and its a '03-'05 C&C with a sleeper pulling a 35 ft fiver with slide in campers on top. I thought perhaps I looked in the wrong direction and again the Jake and its the Red C&C. So I watch him as he goes through traffic and he hits the Jake a couple more times before he on his way. So WTF? The only thing I can think is he repowered with another Cummins that would fit the frame of the Dodge. He had a single stack,differently Cummins and manual trans. I know the difference between a Jake and exhaust brake since we ran both on our rigs when I was still driving OTR.

Any ideas,comments? It did sound good and gave me warm fuzzy feelings.

 

[JJPage]

I never have understood why some Drivers operate their Jake brake in town, or on level ground, or let it bark between shifts. I can only imagine the stress, that places on the whole drive train, first all out thrust one way, then lets reverse it, and slam it back the other way. My Father would have drug me out of the Driver's seat and kicked my butt!



I know alot of Drivers never shut them off, there have been more than a few accidents caused on slippery roads because of this practice. I also know quite a few loggers do this also, leave the jake on, shift without the clutch, drops the rpm faster so as to grab the next gear quicker.



Again, my Father would of had a few words for me, and I am sure there will be a few on here who will definitely disagree, so "flame away", you would never operate my machinery.



OP/Sorry, this has nothing to do with your ?

 

[jelag]

There is not any additional stress on the drive train with an engine brake engaged than when that same driver accelerates... . thats the design... . all engine brakes make the same sound when the exhaust valve is popped open to release the pressure... . but those engines that are without a muffler make the sound you hear... a muffled engine is usually very quiet when the brake is engaged... .



Its the design of the heads and the clearance available that makes an engine brake function... . there usually is a 2" spacer in the valve train, on top thats part of the valve train to allow the interuption of the action of the valves... . the exhaust valve stays closed during the exhuast stroke to absorb the power and than is popped open to release the pressure...



Our trucks don't have the design, nor the clearance to allow the engine brake to function but Cummins was nice enough to design the head to allow for up to 60 psi of back pressure and the function of an exhuast brake... .



JJ is right about the engine brake coming on hard and the slippage on wet and icy conditions... . its time to turn them off... .

 

[JJPage]

There is not any additional stress on the drive train with an engine brake engaged than when that same driver accelerates... .



I agree, where I disagree, is the rapid transition from one direction to the other.



Take any vehicle you want, car, truck, motorcycle, I don't care. Pick a gear, now accelerate and let off, accelerate and let off, do that several times in quick succession, listen to the u-joints clatter, or the chain or diveline on a motorcyle objecting to the stress.



Now take a semi, 80k+ lbs and do the same thing, add the jake brake to that and it has to have a negative effect... . so why would you do that when not necessary for braking, unless to draw attention to yourself.



EDIT: My comments are specifically aimed at semi's, and leaving the jake on continuously.

 

[retirednak]

Guys Guys come on now,its not about how you use a Jake. How did a commercial hauler get a Jake in a 1 ton C&C?

As far as the dumb a%# who leaves a Jake on up shifting in just a wanna be,look at me driver who gets off on the noise and probably has no idea how a Jake really works. I used a Jake all winter long here in Alaska and its a must have with our roads and mountains. That being said,I rarely ran the Jake in position 1 or 2 because of locking up the rears and killing the engine,nor would I use it around town.

 

[ata]

Well here's my 2 cents. The new Pac Brake has a spring on the butterfly valve on their exhaust brake. Don't know what the spring value is for sure but I think it's 60 pounds. When the exhaust pressure reaches that value it opens lowering the pressure and then closes. At high rpm's it opens and closes real fast. With a stright pipe and the engine rpm above 2200 when you let off it sounds really close to a real Jake this with a manual tran's. Now my other 2 cents. I don't think there are many real truck drivers out there anymore. Most of them are asphalt cowboys or like said wannabes.

 

[jelag]

The spring on the new exhaust brakes is designed to hold the back pressure as close to 60 psi as possible on the Dodge truck... the old design had a fixed hole. . as the engine slowed the pressure would drop and so would the effectiveness of the exhuast brake...



The spring is calibrated to hold the 60 psi... so as the truck slows (rpm) the brake still holds the back pressure and continues to slow the truck...



On other trucks, that back pressure might be more or less... on the Dodge its a Cummins specification...

 

[retirednak]

So,a Pac Brake sounds like a Jake Brake? I've not had the chance to listen to a Pac equipped truck yet. Our Pete's and KW's there was never mistaking an exhaust brake vs Jake noise. Even with the Jake on its lowest setting through mufflers,there was no mistaking it was a Jake.

 

[PStauffer]

recommendations for an exhaust brake

Any recommendations for which exhaust brake to put in my 2006 2500 Dodge. I am looking at the pac Brake. Installed locally. The Dodge dealer up the road recommends the B. D. Opinions?

 

[KKaminski]

A pac-brake's noise is more like a low-pitched wind. It sounds like a blower. Can't axplain it any better.



As foir getting a pac-brake installed vs some other brand, I like my pac-brake.



The "true" jake brake does make a lot more noise - and different - than any exhaust brake, but they are also way more effective, too.



As for JJPage and all his ramblings: you've got all that stuff installed on your truck, and you complain about jake brake usage????

 

[retirednak]

I know i didn't hear an exhaust brake coming from the C&C. He must have repowered with another Cummins.



A guy I use to work with had an old used up Prudhoe Bay Oil Field services Ford crew cab. He rebuilt the truck,stuffed a Detroit diesel with a 5 and 4 trans,straight stacks and Jake Brake and used that for years to pull his 5th wheel. When he hit the Jake it really rattled everything! :-laf Between the screaming Detroit,the gear box and Jake I doubt he ever did a brake job on the pickup. I haven't seen him in many moons,but I still see the truck running around from time to time.



It just shows that you can put a carburetor on a cats butt if you have a big enough hammer and time!

 

[jakprince]

Well you should have chased the guy down and got some pics

 

[ryecreek]

There is not any additional stress on the drive train with an engine brake engaged than when that same driver accelerates... . thats the design... . all engine brakes make the same sound when the exhaust valve is popped open to release the pressure... . but those engines that are without a muffler make the sound you hear... a muffled engine is usually very quiet when the brake is engaged... .



Its the design of the heads and the clearance available that makes an engine brake function... . there usually is a 2" spacer in the valve train, on top thats part of the valve train to allow the interuption of the action of the valves... . the exhaust valve stays closed during the exhuast stroke to absorb the power and than is popped open to release the pressure...



Our trucks don't have the design, nor the clearance to allow the engine brake to function but Cummins was nice enough to design the head to allow for up to 60 psi of back pressure and the function of an exhuast brake... .



JJ is right about the engine brake coming on hard and the slippage on wet and icy conditions... . its time to turn them off... .

if i read it right he's talking about a real JAKE BRAKE installed on the head

not an exhaust brake

but i may have miss read

 

[ryecreek]

the old fl60 with a 5. 9 isb used to have a real JAKE

dont know bout the newer ones

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't think the B-series 5. 9 had or used a real jake brake in any application nor did the C-series.



On some models of the 5. 9, as in my '01, the exhaust brake sounds just like a real jake, only the sound comes from the intake. It is a lot quieter than the real jake exhaust sound, however it has the exact same sound. With an aftermarket airbox they are probably louder. It must have something to do with the cam and the valve overlap.



On my 74 Ford w/Cummins and my 91, the exhaust brake just sounds like a plugged up exhaust pipe with some air escaping.



"NICK"

 

[retirednak]

if i read it right he's talking about a real JAKE BRAKE installed on the head

not an exhaust brake

but i may have miss read

Yes, a real Jake brake

 

[JJPage]

A pac-brake's noise is more like a low-pitched wind. It sounds like a blower. Can't axplain it any better.



As foir getting a pac-brake installed vs some other brand, I like my pac-brake.



The "true" jake brake does make a lot more noise - and different - than any exhaust brake, but they are also way more effective, too.



As for JJPage and all his ramblings: you've got all that stuff installed on your truck, and you complain about jake brake usage????

I do tend to ramble :-laf:-laf.



My Uncle Fritz had a conventional Diamond T, I believe he had a 1693 Cat with a Williams exhaust brake. When he engaged that, it sounded like an unmuffled jake.



I guess it's hard to tell what application someone has by sound alone.

 

[13MWZ]

I know i didn't hear an exhaust brake coming from the C&C. He must have repowered with another Cummins.

That's very possible. When I was a Powerstroker back in the day I read about a guy on the forum swaping out the Powerstroke in his 96ish Ford for one of the smaller Cat engines with a Jake engine brake and Eaton Fuller trans! That thing barely fit and he had to re-work the firewall and dash..... but he got it to work.