Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) (barely) stuck in the mud

[pdxkid]

I was at my friend's farm this weekend, driving around the backside of his barn on a muddy old road. The road was overall, flat with a slight right to left cant. I started turning and just sliding down the very minor cant, then got stuck. Put it in 4 Low and just sat there and barely spun. did not dig in deep but was just stuck on the top layer of greasy mud. I believe the rear passenger and front passenger were spinning (the passenger side was uphill on the cant).



I thought 4 low meant all 4 drove at same rate. not true? I readily admit that I don't know as much as I should about this truck. Do I need lockers to get all 4 to turn?



My buddy ended up pulling me out in his early 80s land cruiser with big mudders on it and lockers. He was slipping around a bit but continued to pull me another 400 yards or so to his gravel driveway.



The whole point of my ramblings is, that my truck performed terribly in the mud. My tires are a little worn, probably in the 30-40% life left. any thoughts comments, or "ha ha!"?

 

[AClayton]

4 low or 4 hi means nothing more than locking the front and rear driveshafts at the Xfer case. If you have open diffs,the easiest tires to spin will be the ones that get all the power. If you want to spin all 4 you will need some type of traction aiding diff in both the front and rear. It is not you and your tires probably aren't too much to blame because my truck will get stuck on a wet paper bag... ... and I have the posi-rear!!My old Chevy gasser would go through 10" of snow in 2 wheel drive with a posi and this truck won't move if 2" is on the ground. The weight of the Cummins up front doesn't help unless you're in 4 wheel drive. In mud that is not good,but in snow it helps a lot.

 

[ALepley]

I was at my friend's farm this weekend, driving around the backside of his barn on a muddy old road. The road was overall, flat with a slight right to left cant. I started turning and just sliding down the very minor cant, then got stuck. Put it in 4 Low and just sat there and barely spun. did not dig in deep but was just stuck on the top layer of greasy mud. I believe the rear passenger and front passenger were spinning (the passenger side was uphill on the cant).



I thought 4 low meant all 4 drove at same rate. not true? I readily admit that I don't know as much as I should about this truck. Do I need lockers to get all 4 to turn?



My buddy ended up pulling me out in his early 80s land cruiser with big mudders on it and lockers. He was slipping around a bit but continued to pull me another 400 yards or so to his gravel driveway.



The whole point of my ramblings is, that my truck performed terribly in the mud. My tires are a little worn, probably in the 30-40% life left. any thoughts comments, or "ha ha!"?

Dodge doesnt have a full four wheel drive unless you have a first gen dodge. After that its actually only "3 wheel drive" they make a lock out kit for dodge but it is expensive.

 

[mickeyblueyes]

If you did have locking diffs in that situation ,chances are you would have done the famous crab crawl. Would not be to much help. Mud tires or chains are needed for those conditions. Lockers are best used for rock crawling when one or more wheels are off the ground.

 

[SRath]

Now Mickey that isn't true at all. He just said his buddy not only went through the mud with lockers, he pulled a heavy diesel dodge, too! Even a "crab crawl", as you call it, is better than stuck-on-snot. It means you are moving.



4-Lo is just a lower gear than 4-hi, pdxkid. It has nothing at all to do with how many wheels spin on each axle. Chances are, you have open differentials, meaning only one wheel is getting power on each axle. And that will be the tire with the LEAST amount of traction; the one that spins the easiest. Sucks, huh? You may even have a limited slip rear, since it would have done the same thing (spun only one tire because it was so greasy).



You will have guys here tell you that a posi (limited slip) is all you need, but you would have been stuck with that, too, and that is the only optional traction device Dodge offers and only in the rear axle.



AClayton told how his old Chevy with a limited slip would go so well in even deep snow, yet his Dodge with a limited slip is still helpless.



Chances are very good that what he actually had in that old Chevy, if it was 3/4 or 1 ton with a Corporate 14 bolt, was a Gov-Loc Locker. Maybe even a Detroit Locker. Thousands and thousands of Chevy trucks came with those and they are a true locker and work very well. I don't think I have ever seen a Corporate 14 bolt rearend with a limited slip. The ones I've owned have all been either open or lockered. You can go places in 2wd with a rear locker that your buddies with 4wd and limited slips could not.



Limited slips are a waste of money. False security. Limited ability. Lots of slip. If you are serious about not getting stuck so easily (on something as mundane as a flat greasy road), get a locker. Better yet, get two. It is a real disappointment to discover how helpless your truck is, believe me, I know. I came to this Dodge from a lockered Chevy and had to learn how to chicken out from stuff I never would have given a second thought to in the Chevy.

 

[mickeyblueyes]

ok ok I will agree just a tad bit , you did see the part about Giant Mudders.

Giants Mudders= traction.

 

[RolandJ]

My truck sucks in the greasy muck too. Its embarrassing big Diesel truck all kinds of work and I cant move . Anyone know of good lockers for our trucks?

 

[AClayton]

Now Mickey that isn't true at all. He just said his buddy not only went through the mud with lockers, he pulled a heavy diesel dodge, too! Even a "crab crawl", as you call it, is better than stuck-on-snot. It means you are moving.



4-Lo is just a lower gear than 4-hi, pdxkid. It has nothing at all to do with how many wheels spin on each axle. Chances are, you have open differentials, meaning only one wheel is getting power on each axle. And that will be the tire with the LEAST amount of traction; the one that spins the easiest. Sucks, huh? You may even have a limited slip rear, since it would have done the same thing (spun only one tire because it was so greasy).



You will have guys here tell you that a posi (limited slip) is all you need, but you would have been stuck with that, too, and that is the only optional traction device Dodge offers and only in the rear axle.



AClayton told how his old Chevy with a limited slip would go so well in even deep snow, yet his Dodge with a limited slip is still helpless.



Chances are very good that what he actually had in that old Chevy, if it was 3/4 or 1 ton with a Corporate 14 bolt, was a Gov-Loc Locker. Maybe even a Detroit Locker. Thousands and thousands of Chevy trucks came with those and they are a true locker and work very well. I don't think I have ever seen a Corporate 14 bolt rearend with a limited slip. The ones I've owned have all been either open or lockered. You can go places in 2wd with a rear locker that your buddies with 4wd and limited slips could not.



Limited slips are a waste of money. False security. Limited ability. Lots of slip. If you are serious about not getting stuck so easily (on something as mundane as a flat greasy road), get a locker. Better yet, get two. It is a real disappointment to discover how helpless your truck is, believe me, I know. I came to this Dodge from a lockered Chevy and had to learn how to chicken out from stuff I never would have given a second thought to in the Chevy.

Scott- no it wasn't a Gov-lock..... I took that under-achieving POS out as soon as I got the truck... lol!! In mud with big tires I would have chosen a locker but for my application with 33's and being a work truck,I chose the Eaton Super-Brute limited-slip. It worked very well for me and would occasionally leave a wheel without 100% power but it was a lot better than a Gov-lock and much improved traction over open-diffs. I suffered the early 20's financial woes and welded my front diff and loved the extra traction it provided but quickly learned that a locker offers supreme strength. The R&P exploded on one particular jaunt in the mud with that truck and I ended up with a 60 for the front-end to replace the Corp. 10-bolt. Mine was a 78' so it wasn't a 44. The truck I was referring to in my post that my Cummins replaced was a 99' gasser. No power and no HD suspension is why I replaced it but I have to say and with confidence... ... that gasser had it all over the Dodge part of my truck. Love the Cummins but the Dodge truck has been a complete money pit since I took ownership 3yrs ago. Just sayin!!



Alan

 

[NIsaacs]

What I have found when dealing with surface mud, is high wheel speed. Use the highest gear that you have power for and actually blow dry the surface under the tires this in turn will give the spinning tire more traction to help force power to the non spinning side.



Nick

 

[DCreed]

I added traction bars and 35" mud tires, I have a stock LSD in the rear and NO front driveshaft (snapped it) this works better than the 4wd on stock tires ever did. I cant wait to put the front shaft back in! but as was said earlier, I LOVE my Cummins, I live with the money pit dodge it came in.
PS- the LSD can be tightened up , too.

 

[BarryG]

Ahhh getting stuck in the dodge. Not an uncommon thing I dont think. Has happened to me though it was sunk to the frame (in the front) for me. I think one of the reasons the dodge ctd is so bad (in the slick stuff) is the weight distribution. Aside from the obvious extra weight in the front it is also weighted more on the driver side due to the fuel tank along with the driver thats an extra 4-500lbs (with a full tank) or so on one side. I had a 96 dodge gas truck that did ok not great but definitely better. The 01 diesel I have now has had problems in the same areas that my 96 gas one did just fine in.



I used to have a 74 chevy C20 with the fulltime 4wd. That thing was an animal in the mud it seemed the only limiting factor was ground clearance. As long as it wasnt sunk to the frame you could go. I can remember doing 95% of my mud wheeling in the same gear as normal driving on the street HI or sometimes Hi Lock. Low or low-lock was just to much or not enough wheel speed for the mud now hill climbing low and low-lock worked great. It also weighed in around 5500lbs as opposed to my ctd that weighs in around 7800lbs.

 

[AClayton]

I added traction bars and 35" mud tires, I have a stock LSD in the rear and NO front driveshaft (snapped it) this works better than the 4wd on stock tires ever did. I cant wait to put the front shaft back in! but as was said earlier, I LOVE my Cummins, I live with the money pit dodge it came in.

PS- the LSD can be tightened up , too.

Damn Creed..... I was happy when I upgraded to twins and now you have 3 turbo's!! Make a difference?? I read in DP Magazine about a newer Dodge with 3 turbo's and true dual exhaust but for a 3rd gen,kinda thought it would have been more hp. And maybe his mods were conservative to obtain reliability too..... don't know. You like your set-up?



Alan

 

[AClayton]

The old 70's Chevy's were great! You could thrash them and they would keep right on going and if you did break,parts in junkyards were plentiful and cheap. Lots of swap ability also... ... many of the parts were inter-changeable between years and models. Forget gas mileage..... used to laugh at those guys running 36"tires and told about 15mpg..... I never had a 70's,80's or even 90's truck get that good. My 99' would get about 16 unloaded w/small tires on the highway but avg about 12 for the tankful most of the time. I avg 12 to 14 with my Cummins fully loaded and pulling my trailer and my old gasser would hit a high of about 9mpg.



I would be very apprehensive taking my Dodge through some of the things my old 78' Chevy K-20 went through. I can't keep a front-end in mine just driving on the road pulling a 6k trailer. I used to drive that old Chevy like an atv when I was younger..... thank goodness I grew up a bit..... lol's !!!

 

[DCreed]

Damn Creed..... I was happy when I upgraded to twins and now you have 3 turbo's!! Make a difference?? I read in DP Magazine about a newer Dodge with 3 turbo's and true dual exhaust but for a 3rd gen,kinda thought it would have been more hp. And maybe his mods were conservative to obtain reliability too..... don't know. You like your set-up?



Alan

They work great. The concept is more justifiable for 800+hp DD/tow rigs as they spool faster than any large twin set can. My next set (in the works) is a triple VGT set. Someday I may try quads, too. prolly a pair of HX30's over a pair of HX55's. Who knows! :-laf

 

[AClayton]

They work great. The concept is more justifiable for 800+hp DD/tow rigs as they spool faster than any large twin set can. My next set (in the works) is a triple VGT set. Someday I may try quads, too. prolly a pair of HX30's over a pair of HX55's. Who knows! :-laf

I just have the BD Towing twins and they spool fast enough. You won't be able to see out the windshield with the hood needed to close all that hardware you're planning on under the hood..... lmao!!

 

[SRath]

It's hard to kill a '73-'87 Chevy pickup

I had a '75 K20 Silverado with a Corp 14 and Gov-Lok, Alan, that I bought with a blown motor for $300 and rebuilt from the frame up (mostly body panels, though I stripped and painted the frame and everything else). The only drivetrain change I did after building my own motor was to swap a NP205 in place of the NP203. I never could break that Gov-Lok, even with 33" then 35" BFG Mud Terrains. And it worked just as well as my Detroit Lockered Chevy just like it.



I went through a TH350 about every two years (it was a snowplow truck), but that is all that has ever been changed aside from starters and alternators, u-joints, etc since I built the 350 motor and did the t-case swap. Even the Dana 44 HD has held up admirably, heck, it has the same size axle shafts as our pseudo Dana 60's! I have no idea how many miles are on that truck now, but it's a bunch. They just don't build 'em like they used to!



Which is why I switched to a Cummins Dodge when Chevy went IFS on me. Pure crap! Emphasis on "Cummins", though the Dodge solid front axle, which I was foolish enough to believe was a "real" Dana 60, was also a major factor along with the NV4500 and Dana 80 (everything Dodge did NOT make).



My buddy has now owned that truck for 10 more years (I had it for 7) and would not part with it for a new truck. He hunts hard and it has never left him stuck. It is the ugliest, toughest old truck around.



Been hit hard by other vehicles no less than 5 times, by deer at least 3 times, and it always drives away unscathed, which is more than any of them did. I built a tough deer strainer for the front and a very stout bumper and hitch for the rear, which is where it always seems to get hit.



I know the Gov-Lok gets a bad rap, but that one, and that truck, seem indestructible. Go figure...

 

[AClayton]

I believe you Scott..... Chevy 14bolts are pure beef. My emphasize was on the 10bolt Gov-locks only. That was/is a very weak rear and the gov-lock further exemplified that fact. Never had a gov-locked full-floating 14bolt. The Detroit upgrade in those was the cheapest one in their catalog and is considered a better buy than a typical replacement gov-lock... ... . IF one were to fail. You sound very knowledgeable about the old Chevy's so I will assume you know that I am referreing to the 14bolt full-floater over the POS 14bolt heavy-half rear they had in the 80's. JUNK!!!

 

[2Rowdy]

If the tire with the least resistance is spinning, then all you need to do is drag the brake alittle to get IIRC 45% power to the other wheel.

 

[DCreed]

brakes will/should offer the same resistance to all wheels 60% front 40% rear. so the wheels with the least grip will still be the ones with the least resistance to spinning. $. 02

 

[pdxkid]

thanks for all the responses. I realized I posted in 24v forum, oops. Mods wanna move it? ARB is the only kind of locker I've heard of, anyone recommend another option?