Best front axle u-joints ?

[RBridenbaugh]

Blakers --



It was an error in my text for the URL should have been Used Cars for Sale - Car Prices, Reviews, Insurance, & Used Car Parts at UsedCarsPlus.com (cars plural). I didn't paste the link as it wasn't behaving well as you can see above how they automatically change the link text to this long string that I could not over write. Their website didn't search well by vehicle, so search by brand, then select Neapco (about 1-2 pages down), then click drivetrain, then click driveshaft, u-joint and you will find the 3-0485 about 3/4 of the way down the first page. Strange site. Partially why I elected to go with Advanced Auto for my Neapco u-joints (could also call Neapco Sales (and ask who else distributes them)



Site should look like this:



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[Blakers]

Thanks for the correction in the url. That is really a weird site as I can't find any way to place an order, nor can I even find a way to contact them.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Precision (which is Federal Mogul) makes very good quality u-joints. If you were not getting grease out of all 4 caps then I agree with the other poster, it should never have been placed in service. Spicer is good, but Precision joints are preferred (Super Strength option where available). With high grade grease, they will last a very long time. There are numerous ways to mess up something as simple as a u-joint install, and unless you know what to look for something as simple as a buggered cap seal damaged during install can let water in. Couple that with low grade grease and you have a recipe for a failed joint.

 

[brods]

Brings up a good point, what is considered a superior quality grease for ujoint service? I have been using an off the shelf Valvoline product which apparently is not up to the task. What do you use or recommend?

As far as the Precisions, here is a picture from the last changeout. Notice the cap without a snap ring groove that came on the new joint. It was unacceptable to have the truck down and apart for several days waiting for a replacement joint so one of the good caps from the old joint was used.

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Also notice that the Precision's seals don't really look like much of a seal, especially compared to the Spicer seal pictured here: #ad

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It would be great if I was doing something wrong, that can be fixed. If this AAM axle and its components are of weak design, that is not so easily fixed.

 

[Coalsmoke]

A seal cannot be accurately assessed in a photo unless its really beat up. The quality of the rubber, the condition of the mating surfaces, etc need to be carefully considered as well. Lots of mistakes to be made with most operations, most times people don't realize it unless they are looking for it, and wonder why the parts just don't last as long. Ie. When pressing out old u-joints, if pressed too far, the cross can create a nick on the inside of the opposing yoke, where, if not noticed and ground out, it can become a weak spot in the axle as well as well as booger up the seal on the new u-joint cup when pressed on. Just one example.

As for the cup being machined wrong, definitely a problem. Is it possible though that they were returned and resold and someone mixed up that cup on the wrong joint? I have seen that type of thing happen both not so much in the dealership but from auto parts stores it is a big concern. Just because its in a box doesn't mean you'r the first one to get the part.

Grease: NitroLube's Nitro Red is the best grease I have found to date, if you can afford it, about $20 a tube vs. $3. 00 of any of the major lines out there, but, you get what you pay for.

 

[brods]

Unfortunately the picture from pirate will not show up. It is of Spicer’s triple seal while Precision only has the one seal to keep the grease in and the elements out.



Yes dinging the yoke from the cross shaft is a relatively common occurrence. Always clean and dress the bores before pressing the new caps in. Not the issue in my case. Any other mistakes?



The joints were from Rock Auto and the boxes looked new and unmolested so I'm guessing it came from the manufacturer with the wrong cap.



$17 extra for grease is well worth it if it prevents having to replace two $40 joints. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Lots of places for something to go wrong, and without standing and watching someone work, its hard to say what may have got you.



- mis-shaped seal (and not catching it, you can tell easiest once the u-joint has all 4 caps pressed on, although I have yet to see one of these from precision this way)



- defective machining of cross producing unacceptable tolerances (have not seen this with precision joints either, but its possible)



- scored or nicked grease seal when installing



- contaminated cross and bearing cup from assembly is quite common, no one is perfect no matter how hard they try, and inexperience can magnify this



- over pressing u-joint caps



- improper pressing or clamping of yokes can bend them out of tolerance



- knocking a needle bearing when handling before assembly



- knocking a needle bearing during assembly (which will cause fast failure of the joint)



- failure to properly grease and ensure sufficient coverage of non sealed type of u-joints AFTER assembly



-Contamination of the bearings from dirt, rust, grindings from dressing bearing cups, etc.



-Contamination of grease



This list could keep going on and on. The thing is, no one is perfect, whether it be the manufacturer making the parts, the store stocking them, the DIYer installing them, or the Dodge tech installing them, everything in the automotive repair business is susceptible to the human factor. Change them out and IF you have the same problem of premature failure next time it would be worth having a more experienced tech assist with the job and give you any pointers on what you may be doing that could be jeopardizing the joints. There are other less direct causes for failure too, wheel bearings, carrier bearings, bent housing, seized brake causing excessive heat, water crossing without re-greasing or using a low grade grease. The whole picture always has to be looked at. Good luck

 

[Coalsmoke]

Unfortunately the picture from pirate will not show up. It is of Spicer’s triple seal while Precision only has the one seal to keep the grease in and the elements out.

I forgot to address this part above in my last post.



Greasable u-joints will have a less aggressive seal so that when they are over greased it will not hydraulic off the grease seals. Permanently sealed u-joints need a higher integrity seal because it is their only line of defense against grease loss, foreign contamination, corrosion and failure.

 

[steved]

FWIW, I have a set of Precisions in my 04. 5... they have over 130k of road time and are still fine. Although they rarely get used, I went under the same assumption as Brods in that water would be my main problem, but to date have found nothing.



I was concerned about a sealed-for-life joint, as the no-spin obviously doesn't move the joint and sitting can be as hard as moving all the time. So I opted for the greaseable Precisions... pump them full every time I grease the rest of the truck, which is probably every 2500 to 5000 miles.



I also have NeapCo's in my rear driveshaft... at the time, there was NOT a direct replacement NeapCo joint, but the guy simply ground the retainer thinner and made the "spicer"-sized joint work. I have over 130k on those as well...



As for the "compression" thing... for 99. 9% of us, it doesn't matter. Most of us don't even come close to stressing the joints in these trucks...

 

[steved]

The 20+ year old Dana 60 front axle I have on a different truck has more miles, has been under water several times and has seen harsher duty than this Dodge/AAM axle yet it still has the original sealed for life wheel u-joints. Live and learn.

Funny you mention that... my dad's 99 has the original axle joints at only 280k... :-laf

 

[rbattelle]

Permanently sealed u-joints need a higher integrity seal because it is their only line of defense against grease loss, foreign contamination, corrosion and failure.

The nice thing about the greasable units is their ability to keep contaminants out simply by the presence of all that grease. If the joint is 100% full of grease, which repels water, where is water (or other stuff) going to go?



Ryan

 

[Blakers]

- improper pressing or clamping of yokes can bend them out of tolerance

Many times, when joints were really rusted in to the yokes, I simply cut the center out with my plasma cutter so I could press all the caps in to get them out. This puts a lot less strain on the yokes.

 

[brods]

Good list of issues Coalsmoke.



With the first set of 464s, both joints had rust like in the picture posted in this thread. The second set have been greased two or three times in the 17K miles they have been on the truck and they also have those little zerk caps to keep dirt out of the check ball. Just the other day in the snow with the hubs locked and the wheels turned sharp I got the tell tale signs that one is going bad again. When greased, rusty lube came out of the bad one. No submerging the axle underwater or abuse, just normal highways and township maintained dirt roads and the occasional 4x4 in the snow. The grease is Valvoline’s DuraBlend synthetic blend which is supposed to be an “Excellent water repellent”.



Since Steved and others have had good success with the Precisions that points to installation error, bad grease or some mechanical issue on my truck. I’ve changed many u-joints over the years and really have no excuse if I messed up the install four separate times, but you never know, stuff happens. I’ll try switching brands of grease, but still plan to go with the better sealed lubed for life type joint this time around. Thanks for the tips it is always good to get different input.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Brods, at the end of the day, the best advice is always to use what works best for you. When you install the u-joints and initially grease them, do you grease to the point that grease will push past and "crack" all 4 seals? I grease everything every few months or 10,000kms / 6500miles and will grease until all 4 seals have cracked. U-joints are not like high speed bearings where you have to be careful of blowing out a seal with over greasing.

I haven't used the durablend grease, but, one way to check washout resistance is to put a dollop on a sheet of metal and hit it with brake clean. The Nitrolube I have will not wash off or dissolve much in brake clean, standard synthetic grease will turn to an oily goo. Some greases are incompatible and will dissolve other grease types and turn them to a liquid state, maybe you are having a compatibility issue?

Just don't let your U-joints go this far :-laf These are pictures from my new "rescue truck", as in its the latest member of our family to be rescued from a bad home. These are on the CV joint off the front drive shaft. Also shown is my preferred U-joint re and re tool setup.

 

[brods]

... . When you install the u-joints and initially grease them, do you grease to the point that grease will push past and "crack" all 4 seals? ... ...

Yes to the point where I have to spend some time wiping all the excess grease off so it doesn't get thrown everywhere when the axle turns. I have wondered about the grease compatibility issue with the lube comes on the u-joints when you get them, but if thats the problem then many others should be experiencing it too. Not to mention that Valvoline would have a big problem as well. The second set I greased every oil change (5,000 miles) and still no luck. As for installing them I have a large bench vise that I gently press them in with. Not quite as good as a arbor press, but much better than a hammer imo. Who knows. I'll go with the sealed joints and if they fail prematurely then it is definitely me or something wrong with the axle shafts.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Nothing wrong with using a bench vise to press them in. Like you say, it keeps the hammer from touching them.

 

[rbattelle]

Not quite as good as a arbor press, but much better than a hammer imo.

It's funny, I have a 3-ton arbor press, but I frequently wind up using a hammer as well as the press. I like to get the caps started with a hammer so I know they're straight, then finish with the press.



To each his own.



Ryan

 

[Coalsmoke]

Just don't knock a needle roller out with the hammer, that's where presses are nice, smooth and consistent.

 

[steved]

I use a 20-ton press to install, then give each ear of the yoke a rap with a hammer to "seat" everything.



I use either 707L, Lucas, or Tractor Supply Premium grease for my lubricating... obviously the 707L is probably the better of those three.



And another possibility is a change in quality or components, or even a bad batch of joints.

 

[Blakers]

We finally got a day when my cousin and I could work on the truck. We replaced both front u-joints and both front wheel bearings. The work went well, especially the side I had put the joint in before. The other side, however, was dry as a bone - even after I had specifically asked the mechanic to dowse the thing with anti-seize. After we were done, it will be slinging anti-seize out all over the truck... . but, what the heck, it's winter.

We used Precision 464 u-joints which were $40 each. The wheel bearings were only $80 each.

I also installed tow hooks on the front.

Blake