Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) P1689 & P0336 codes

[jdross440]

This truck really has me frustrated. First the crank sensor goes out. I replace it. Then the VP44 fails. I had to have the ECM reflashed do to hard starting when hot-too much pump pressure during start. I replaced the injection pump about 2500 miles ago (from MWFI). Then the cam sensor and again the crank sensor (about 75 miles on this one). I made a mistake of buying one from a local parts house the first time and went to Cummins for the second one. It still has a miss occasionally (usually within the first 10 minutes after starting). Sometimes it is just a couple bumps and other times it is really rough and sometimes it just shuts off. Usually it doesn't turn on the check engine light unless it completely quits. However it does set the 2 above codes each time. It started this after the injection pump was on for about 400 miles. It started out doing it once every 2 or 3 weeks. I have talked to MWFI and they are at a loss as to the cause. I have cleaned and applied dielectric grease to all the connectors (VP44, APPS, ECM, cranksensor). I have diconnected the VanAAken box. Does anyone have any clues? I'm ready to trade this thing for another brand.

 

[24Vpirate]

BAD VP44 i would pull it and send it back and have them check it out

 

[jdross440]

I got to noticing this happens about 5 minutes after startup every time it happens. At first I thought it was temperature related until I got to watching the temperature and the time after startup. It seems to only do it after it sits several hours and cools. Does anyone know if there is something in the software that changes over after approximately 5 minutes that could be causing this? Maybe a bad reflash on the ECM.

 

[BarryG]

I had a similar problem not quite the same but similar, same codes and symptoms just not the 5 minutes after it started. I chased it for months. I poked, prodded, tested every wire in that circuit and others, connectors, plugs and sensors everything tested fine. After all that I took it to my trusted mechanic who did the same thing and was at a loss. He said as much as he hated to say it take it to the dealer as the starscan tool they use is much more specific to dodge than even snapon etc scanners. Well I figured I would wait until it did it regular enough that I wouldnt hear the "could not duplicate" and that will be $100.



So one day while doing routine maintenance oil, filters etc I thought I would poke around the alternator wires as I had read on here that sometimes they caused some funky electrical stuff. In any case I inspected them closely, pulled a bit on them, seperated them apart as much as possible and saw nothing out of the ordinary. My truck has not acted up like that nor have those codes returned since then. That was over 5k ago. If it starts acting like that again that is the first place I will look. Might be nothing might be worth 5 minutes of time to seperate the wires out. I was thinking maybe ac bleeding but never did check it since it went away.

 

[jdross440]

Cleaned all battery terminals and grounds yesterday afternoon. Checked alternator wiring. Drove it 10 miles to the next town and back. No problem. Got up this morning didn't get a block before it started missing. It stumbled about 4 times and by the time I got turned around and back to the house I had driven 3 more blocks and no miss. It seems to be that low outside temps (it was 40 degrees this morning) causes it to happen sooner, but once it misses the 2 to 4 times it doesn't do it again until it sits most of the day. When it was taking about 5 minutes it was in the mid 50's or warmer.

I will check for codes tonight. When I checked them yesterday before cleaning and starting there were no codes even though it had missed the day before.

I have a timbo APPS sensor I will put on tonight and see what happens this weekend. If that doesn't fix it, I may go back to dealer and question reflash they did.

 

[jdross440]

Update: No codes were set. Changed APPS last night. Drove and no problem. Got up this morning and drove it. It is 52 degrees outside. After about 5 minutes it started stumbling and when I pulled up to a red light it died. Started back up and no stumble back to the house. Checked for codes, no codes. Will call dealer later this morning.

After talking to service department (can't get in until Wednesday) truck had set for 4 hours and cooled. Started truck and let idle. After about 1 to 2 minutes it stumbled twice within 3 seconds of each other. Turned off, let sit for 5 minutes and restarted and same thing happened. Watched fuel pressure and gauges and no fluctuations.

I figured out my code reader wasn't resetting the codes every time so most of the time the codes it was reading was from the failure of the crank sensor.

 

[jdross440]

Update from tests ran today.



1. Removed “Fuel Pump” relay. Jumpered pin 87 to Bat (+) This connection goes straight to injection pump pin 7. Connected a led test light to pin 86 (ECM output to relay) and gnd. Started and within 2 minutes it stumbled (on and off idle). Test light didn't blink. Gauges didn't change. Fuel pressure 15 psi. Turned key off and engine stopped.

2. Disconnected connector at Injection pump. Connected pump pin 7 to Bat (+) and pin 6 to Bat (-). Started and let idle for 10 minutes. No stumble. Fuel pressure 15 psi.

3. Reconnected as in step 1. Stumbled within 2 minutes.

4. Reinstalled relay.

 

[JLandry]

2. Disconnected connector at Injection pump. Connected pump pin 7 to Bat (+) and pin 6 to Bat (-). Started and let idle for 10 minutes. No stumble. Fuel pressure 15 psi.

3. Reconnected as in step 1. Stumbled within 2 minutes.

Sounds like you've narrowed it down to a malfunctioning ECM.



Bummer... they're not cheap.



John L.

 

[jdross440]

Update: I took it to the dealer yesterday after getting tired of messing with it. They called and said the Turbo Boost sensor was giving erratic readings to the ECM causing it to turn fuel off momentarily. They didn't have the part but got it today and they called a few minutes ago saying it was running good now ($433 for part and labor-OUCH). We'll see after a few days.

 

[jdross440]

Just stopped to pick it up. It wouldn't start. They sent a tech out to reset any codes. There were none. It started right up for him. Before I got 100 yards down the street it started missing again. Went back and they said when they went to start it yesterday it did the same thing but set a code Po370. When tech reset code and it started and didn't give them any more problems. They said it didn't miss after replacing the sensor. They had put 7 miles on it. The tech said the injection pump is failing is why it had that code. Will call Midwest Fuel Injection tomorrow.

 

[JLandry]

The tech said the injection pump is failing is why it had that code. Will call Midwest Fuel Injection tomorrow.

Hmmm... I'm a bit skeptical about that diagnosis. You just replaced the VP44 2500 miles ago and what are the odds it's failing already? Add to that all those strange DTC's which keep popping up (which have nothing to do with the VP44) and the fact it seemed to run fine when the VP44 was hot wired (thus eliminating the ECM).



It sure sounds like the ECM to me, but I could be terribly wrong of course.



Best of luck,



John L.

 

[jdross440]

I am skeptical too. We don't have any good service departments around here when it comes to the cummins diesel. Even Cummins here don't have a clue-I have had them look at other things and they couldn't figure it out-like a bad cranksensor that wasn't setting a code. They said after 2003 Daimler locked up the code so tight they can't even access the computers. I talked to Midwest fuel injection and they wan't me to send the pump to them for diagnosis. They aren't convinced either.

 

[jdross440]

Prior to pulling the injection pump took truck to Cummins. They had a newer guy there that had come from another location that knows the Dodge trucks. They kept it 2 days and said it was the injection pump computer. They had the same thing happen a couple months back and chased it for a week. They finally changed the injection pump on that one and fixed it. They have had another one since that one with no codes and an injection pump fixed it too. I talked to Chip at Blue Chip diesel while Cummins had it and he said the same thing. He had seen several that wouldn't create a code. He said hooking up to pins 6 and 7 directly to battery bypasses the computer on the pump is why it would idle ok but stumble when hooked back up. I pulled the pump Friday and shipped it back to MWFI. They received it Tuesday according the the UPS tracker. Waiting to hear from them.

 

[AlaskanCummins]

Any word yet from MWFI?

 

[jdross440]

They repaired the pump and sent it back. I received it Friday and installed it Saturday. Let idle for 20 minutes and no problem. Drove Sunday afternoon for 8 miles, no problem. Drove Monday for 12 miles, no problem. Seems to accelerate much better. I know boost comes up a lot quicker (will hit the limit quickly). I know they replaced the computer. When I drive it more this weekend I'll know for sure if it's fixed, but seems to be as it was getting where I couldn't go more than a couple miles before it would miss and die.

 

[jdross440]

Drove about 100 miles this weekend, both city and highway. Truck runs really well. Also I reset the trip computer and it appears to be getting between 3 and 4 more mpg than it ever did with the replacement pump.

 

[AlaskanCummins]

Cool!



Glad to hear that your truck is running better.