Question, 2010 power

[BurlesonR]

Hbarlow, eagerly awaiting your findings from cummins. I pray there is something holding this truck back otherwise it is the least powerful cummins I have owned by a good margin (I have owned 4, both stick and auto, 2 hpcr). The power is also lacking where it is needed most, bellow 2000rpm. I pulled a 4500lb 23 pro line yesterday which should be a joke but had to wind the guts out of it to keep pulling in the next gear (up hill). I am a cummins fan but this is silly!

I'd say your trouble is with gearing.

Even with the g56, 3:42 gears and 35's are going to zap a good bit of torque...

 

[blmyachtsales]

Forgot to mention I tow with the factory 245's. Those 35's are pigs for p

erformance.

 

[AH64ID]

I read a lot where people talk about lack of power on the HPCR below 2k rpms, thou I hear more complaints on the 5. 9 than 6. 7.

I know on my dyno sheets I can see where the ECM fuels harder as soon as you hit 2K rpms. Before I started running a little extra fuel with my Smarty Jr I would have to pull most hills in 5th with the TT hooked up.

 

[HBarlow]

I'd say your trouble is with gearing.
Even with the g56, 3:42 gears and 35's are going to zap a good bit of torque...

Yes, I agree. 3. 42 gears are a poor choice for towing anything greater than about 10k lbs.

 

[AH64ID]

Yes, I agree. 3. 42 gears are a poor choice for towing anything greater than about 10k lbs.

I agree, and what really sucks is that most the G56 trucks on the lot have 3. 42's in them. Its consumer driven based on the idea that lower rpms always means more mileage. I have 2 friends with '10's, both wanted 3. 73's and G56's but got 3. 42's as that's all that the dealer had and would have for a while. While lots of people complained the AD G56 was/is a great towing trans, it could pull most hills in 6th at 10K lbs just from the mechanical advantage and was over 2K rpms at a relatively low speed. But folks complained about 2500+ rpms at 80, so no more . 79OD. (and my dad's 06 and my 05 get generally the same mileage, no clear "winner" and I am geared about 12% taller with my . 73OD and tires, but he can sure out tow me in 6th)

 

[HBarlow]

I agree, and what really sucks is that most the G56 trucks on the lot have 3. 42's in them. Its consumer driven based on the idea that lower rpms always means more mileage. I have 2 friends with '10's, both wanted 3. 73's and G56's but got 3. 42's as that's all that the dealer had and would have for a while. While lots of people complained the AD G56 was/is a great towing trans, it could pull most hills in 6th at 10K lbs just from the mechanical advantage and was over 2K rpms at a relatively low speed. But folks complained about 2500+ rpms at 80, so no more . 79OD. (and my dad's 06 and my 05 get generally the same mileage, no clear "winner" and I am geared about 12% taller with my . 73OD and tires, but he can sure out tow me in 6th)

The fact that differential gearing makes little if any difference in fuel economy in our Rams as you mentioned is not known or understood by many. They try to apply old knowledge about gasoline V8s to the modern electronically-controlled Cummins turbodiesel.

 

[AH64ID]

The fact that differential gearing makes little if any difference in fuel economy in our Rams as you mentioned is not known or understood by many. They try to apply old knowledge about gasoline V8s to the modern electronically-controlled Cummins turbodiesel.

Exactly, on these new hi-tech efficient motors its a very minimal change. But most consumers are stuck on the old.

 

[BurlesonR]

I was hoping we would have had an answer from the engineer by now Harvey... .

Guess he's a busy man (or women... )

 

[HBarlow]

I'm sure that they are very busy and have no idea what major projects with short due dates they might be working on but I'm becoming disappointed that I haven't heard from Cummins yet.

I know the engineer's job title and first name. I think I'll try to call today and see if I can persuade or bs my way through an operator to find him.

I understand why the company and individual engineers don't want every Cummins owner calling the MERP every day asking our stupid question but I'm trying to ask a question for the benefit of about 30,000 TDR members, not just myself.

 

[matkinson6054]

So if the 6. 7s do have torque management that would be why my 2010 cummins seems to lag when u floor it from a stop. It wont spin the tires but once it gets past 1st or 2nd gear it takes off like crazy. Almost like turbo lag and then it kicks in and youre gone.

 

[RVTRKN]

So if the 6. 7s do have torque management that would be why my 2010 cummins seems to lag when u floor it from a stop. It wont spin the tires but once it gets past 1st or 2nd gear it takes off like crazy. Almost like turbo lag and then it kicks in and youre gone.

It sort of has TM if you consider the ECM parameters are set no mater how you drive, its like I posted in the past. Its not TM as though the ECM thinks "oh the torque is to great so I'll detune myself", its the smog programing in the ECM that thinks "oh that is going to produce a lot of smoke". Its what D/C has come up with to prevent less soot costing them lots of money replacing turbo's and DPF's.



I doubt we will hear about it from a engineer, its kind of admitting there is a problem with the 6. 7. I remember asking a Ford 6. oh no owner what he thought about his PS in 05 when he replied "I loved it until the Ford dealer detuned it with a reflash". He claimed that after the reflash it was a gutless wonder, and they used it as an excuse for some issue they had. (just about everything in my opinion) :-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[RVTRKN]

Just went and drove my C&C to get it washed, just sits around now most of the time, and was wondering if some of you 6. 7 CTD owners are confusing Turbo Lag for power issues. I know my 04. 5 had a slight Turbo Lag but when the boost caught up it screamed up on-ramps that were steep, even towing my boat, look at sig. Its normal to have some Lag, even the POS 6. 4 Dual Turbo had Turbo Lag. I test drove one in 07 and the advertised 350 HP seemed false to me, what a dog. It had no getty up and go like the 07. 5 regular pickup with the 6. 7 CTD had. Its hard for me to compare what most of you 6. 7 owners have because the C&C is only 305 HP.





I'm only thinking out loud here, but just maybe its Turbo Lag

 

[AH64ID]

I can tell you that the tuning that reduces tq management is a lot more than turbo lag. The turbo actually lights a little quicker on stock tuning (mild driving) vs what I run on the Jr (due to timing), but the Jr tuning has a LOT more bottom end. I always lug and almost stall it when I drive it with stock tq management.

 

[HBarlow]

I had the first name and job title of the engineer I was supposed to hear from. I was able to track down his internal phone number at Cummins MERP and left him a message explaining again why I was calling and asking him to call me. I left my cell phone number and email address. I"m still hoping he'll call.

 

[matkinson6054]

I understand what youre saing RVTRKN about the turbo lag. But my truck will not get above 2k on the first shift or maybe even the second, then it will go through the full rpm range. So the smog stuff youre talking about makes sense to me. Im very easy on my truck most of the time and have only floored it a couple of times, so this doesnt bother me the least bit. I still love the way it drives anyway.

 

[JHumphries]

... But my truck will not get above 2k on the first shift or maybe even the second, then it will go through the full rpm range...

Do you have the auto?
I can redline every gear in my manual. 3rd doesn't seem to pull as hard as 2nd or 4th, but I can go all the way to redline (if I wanted to).

 

[matkinson6054]

Yea its an auto.

 

[BurlesonR]

Still no response from Cummins... . Very disapointing... .

What do you think Harvey?

 

[HBarlow]

I was just thinking about it earlier today. I guess I could be optimistic and assume the engineer that was supposed to contact me is struggling to meet an important deadline at work and will call when it is completed but I'm beginning to suspect he may not plan to call. I've left messages. That's about all I know to do.

I suppose that if Chrysler/Dodge has asked Cummins to program the engine to limit launch torque or torque during programmed shifts it is because AAM believes their differentials can't handle it or because Dodge or Aisin believes the automatic is not capable of handling it and that information probably belongs to Dodge, AAM, or Aisin. The engineer may have been told by superiors he can't discuss it or, in his own judgement, feels that he cannot disclose it. If they won't discuss it I guess there is not much we can do.

I also sent an e-mail to AAM about two weeks ago asking what the torque rating on their axle assembly is. My question was ignored.

I've thought about it some. I believe that my engine does limit torque during gear changes of the Aisin automatic because shifts are very smooth under full power. It doesn't screech the tires and jerk forward each time it shifts like my '06 w/48RE did. I still don't feel it limit torque at launch but who knows? Engine/transmission programming is very complex on these new trucks and the engineers could easily program them any way they want it.

 

[SnoKing]

I was just thinking about it earlier today. I guess I could be optimistic and assume the engineer that was supposed to contact me is struggling to meet an important deadline at work and will call when it is completed but I'm beginning to suspect he may not plan to call. I've left messages. That's about all I know to do.



I suppose that if Chrysler/Dodge has asked Cummins to program the engine to limit launch torque or torque during programmed shifts it is because AAM believes their differentials can't handle it or because Dodge or Aisin believes the automatic is not capable of handling it and that information probably belongs to Dodge, AAM, or Aisin. The engineer may have been told by superiors he can't discuss it or, in his own judgement, feels that he cannot disclose it. If they won't discuss it I guess there is not much we can do.



I also sent an e-mail to AAM about two weeks ago asking what the torque rating on their axle assembly is. My question was ignored.



I've thought about it some. I believe that my engine does limit torque during gear changes of the Aisin automatic because shifts are very smooth under full power. It doesn't screech the tires and jerk forward each time it shifts like my '06 w/48RE did. I still don't feel it limit torque at launch but who knows? Engine/transmission programming is very complex on these new trucks and the engineers could easily program them any way they want it.

Just a thought here on gear changes. I have a 2001. 5 with full DTT transmission and 89 percent TC. Accumutator is not locked. It shifts very firm with the DTT smart controller that does lock to lock shifts. I have the first special 47RE smart controller that was modified to unlock the TC during shifts but it does not seem to change the firm shifts much. I have down shift from OD to 3rd set at 44 mph and on the exhaust brake it churps the tires when it makes this shift without a load. If they lock the Accumutator they shift even firmer yet.



So if the new trucks have more gears, then the difference in ratio between shifts is less and I assume they are unlocking and then relocking the TC for smooth shifts.



So there is more to smooth shifts than defueling! And it may not even be doing that.



Chris