Oil analysis

[TMutziger]

I have been running Schaeffer synthetic supreme 9000 5w40 combined with an FS2500 by-pass filtration system for a couple years now. Started doing oil analysis to see how far I could safely extend my drain intervals. The first few everything was normal. After this last oil change, I sampled at 10,000 miles. The report came back normal, suggested to sample again in another 10,000. A couple thousand miles later, I sent a sample to Schaeffer's to test (I got a free one from a friend). The other samples were done by another company(Stavely) through the filter manufacturer. The report from Schaeffer showed iron at 205 ppm and soot at 2%. The viscosity was increased to abnormal levels and they recomended an immediate oil change and resample. Is the iron level something I should be worried about? Why the soot loading and thickening even with filtration that's supposed to remove it? I don't understand how the two reports could differ so much in only 2000 miles.

 

[AABEN]

Where did you send your samples? And did you get the TBN ran ? How many miles? The iron on all of my test run's from 14 to 20 your iron should be around 23 so your iron is Way high.

 

[AH64ID]

Most soot is sub micron in size, your FS-2500 is absolute at 2. 78 micron, so you won't catch all of it; especially since modern diesel oil is designed to keep soot in solution.

I am loosing faith in UOA, thou I still do it, but every company has a different standard. I have more wear on my components than I should for good UOAs.

 

[amsoilman]

I have been running Schaeffer synthetic supreme 9000 5w40 combined with an FS2500 by-pass filtration system for a couple years now. Started doing oil analysis to see how far I could safely extend my drain intervals. The first few everything was normal. After this last oil change, I sampled at 10,000 miles. The report came back normal, suggested to sample again in another 10,000. A couple thousand miles later, I sent a sample to Schaeffer's to test (I got a free one from a friend). The other samples were done by another company(Stavely) through the filter manufacturer. The report from Schaeffer showed iron at 205 ppm and soot at 2%. The viscosity was increased to abnormal levels and they recomended an immediate oil change and resample. Is the iron level something I should be worried about? Why the soot loading and thickening even with filtration that's supposed to remove it? I don't understand how the two reports could differ so much in only 2000 miles.

I would double check the information you provided to the Schaeffer's oil Analysis Lab. If for example the size of the motor(B engine vs C engine) the reports could be totaly diffferent since the size of the motor is one factor for determining limits etc. This information is just one of the inputs to the computer system for UOA reports.

I know this is a fact, as I sent in a customers information for UOA on his dodge, and the report came back stating the oil needed changing! When I contacted the lab, to inquire about the report, since the last report was shown to be in very good condition. The lab checked in to the analysis, and discovered the technicion doing the analysis had put the Cummins 8. 3 L(C-Engine) in the computer instead of the 5. 9 L (B-Engine. This missinformation made the "limits" totaly different.

 

[TMutziger]

It shows 5. 9L Cummins right on the report. On the back of the report is a list of wear metal limits it says "for all engines. " For iron, up to 100 is normal. 100-250 is abnormal. 250-400 is severe. The oil has 12,000 miles on it total. The last analysis from ALS Staveley showed iron at 95, and that was in their normal category. Interestingly though, the soot was exactly the same, at 2%. ALS said that was good and viscosity was in specified range at 14. 7. Schaeffer said 2% is abnormal and viscosity was increased to 24. 38. All the additives listed were normal and almost identical between the two samples. So now I'm confused and concerned about the high iron reading. Wondering why it increased so much between the two in so little time when nothing changed with the engine. Maybe the next sample will tell me more.

 

[amsoilman]

It shows 5. 9L Cummins right on the report. On the back of the report is a list of wear metal limits it says "for all engines. " For iron, up to 100 is normal. 100-250 is abnormal. 250-400 is severe. The oil has 12,000 miles on it total. The last analysis from ALS Staveley showed iron at 95, and that was in their normal category. Interestingly though, the soot was exactly the same, at 2%. ALS said that was good and viscosity was in specified range at 14. 7. Schaeffer said 2% is abnormal and viscosity was increased to 24. 38. All the additives listed were normal and almost identical between the two samples. So now I'm confused and concerned about the high iron reading. Wondering why it increased so much between the two in so little time when nothing changed with the engine. Maybe the next sample will tell me more.

Are you sure both reports are listing the Viscosity readings the same? SAE 40 grade oil should be between 12. 5cSt and 16. 3cSt@100c. As I read it, the ALS report showed 14. 7 which is in the middle of the cSt limits. The Shaeffer report if read correctly is showing 24. 38! If this were a cSt reading, it would indicate a 60 grade oil using that methology. Some labs do not report Viscosisty in cSt. They use another method called (SUS)Sustained Universal Seconds.

 

[TMutziger]

I double checked and yes, they are listing the readings the same. On the Schaeffer report is shows viscosity cSt at 100 C, 24. 38 and right next to that it shows SAE ISO 60. The ALS report was also cSt at 100. It was 14. 7. So this leads me back to my original concern. What could be going on with my truck to cause such a drastic change in readings in only a few thousand miles? Something is causing all the extra soot and the FS-2500 must not be able to keep up with it. I have had trouble with it starting rough and puffing blue/white smoke for just a few seconds sometimes right away when I start it in the morning. After it has been driven, it will start perfectly and not give any smoke the rest of the day. I live in the plains, but if I drive up into the mountains, above 5,000 ft. , it does it much, much worse. It will barely idle on its own when I start it, then runs great after you drive it. When I come back down to where I live, it stops doing it. Runs perfectly otherwise. I've yet to get a code. Could this be related to the high soot? Don't know what to do now.

 

[amsoilman]

I double checked and yes, they are listing the readings the same. On the Schaeffer report is shows viscosity cSt at 100 C, 24. 38 and right next to that it shows SAE ISO 60. The ALS report was also cSt at 100. It was 14. 7. So this leads me back to my original concern. What could be going on with my truck to cause such a drastic change in readings in only a few thousand miles? Something is causing all the extra soot and the FS-2500 must not be able to keep up with it. I have had trouble with it starting rough and puffing blue/white smoke for just a few seconds sometimes right away when I start it in the morning. After it has been driven, it will start perfectly and not give any smoke the rest of the day. I live in the plains, but if I drive up into the mountains, above 5,000 ft. , it does it much, much worse. It will barely idle on its own when I start it, then runs great after you drive it. When I come back down to where I live, it stops doing it. Runs perfectly otherwise. I've yet to get a code. Could this be related to the high soot? Don't know what to do now.

Something is definately wrong with the reports! I would get hold of the Schaffer Oil analysis lab and ask a few questions, particually about the high 24. 38 cSt@100c. Viscosity reading, as if this is correct, the oil is being reported as a 60 grade oil!