Strange No-Start

[BHiggins]

On Wednesday I took a short drive to my parents house (less than 15 miles), and only stayed for around ten minutes. When I went to start my truck, it started then immediately stalled. It did the same thing upon my second attempt. The third attempt, it didn't start at all (it turned over fine, but wouldn't start). I waited around 20 seconds, tried again, and it started. This time I revved the engine a bit to keep it running and all seemed fine. When I got home, I went to lock the truck (with the key fob) and nothing happened so I locked it manually (I've had problems with the key in the past, so I didn't think about it much). At that point I probably should have tried to start it, but I didn't and went inside... Now I have no way of knowing if today's problem actually happened on Wednesday. Fast forward to today, and now the truck is TOTALLY DEAD... No lights, no horn, nothing! DEAD. I haven't tried to jump it yet, I'm hoping it will start with a boost in the morning. If it does, where should I start? It seems unlikely that BOTH the batteries went STONE DEAD so fast.
PS: The truck is an '08 and it has less than 25k miles. Also, the volt meter showed normal charging during the drive home, and no warning lights were on... And all four battery terminals are clean and tight.

 

[SierraRam]

I would check the batteries, a shorted battery will reek havock and cause all sorts of issues. Before you lost all power did you have an MIL?

 

[jelag]

I would not try to jump it... . instead I'd first leave a charger on it over night...

After you check the batteries look for a bad ground... . almost all your problems in your post can be traced back to batteries or a bad ground... .

I've personally seen battery cables that look good and if you pull them off the batteries there is a light film of dirt... a simple scrapping of the inside of the cable end and the polish of the post takes care of this problem...

On one of my trucks we actually saw the problem one evening with a glow across one of the battery cable ends... as it cranked... when we touched it... you couldn't hold your hand on it... . it was so hot... .

Let us know what you find...

 

[BHiggins]

No, no MIL... The truck gave no indication whatsoever of any problem. I'm still leaning towards it not being JUST the batteries. If I went out one morning and it was just dead, sure. But what about the original start/stall, start/stall, crank good but not start condition? The batteries seemed fine during that "episode". Besides, wouldn't the computer "sense" a short in one (or both) of the batteries and illuminate the MIL?

 

[BHiggins]

Don't get me wrong, I know the batteries are probably shot. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the problem before I start "throwing money" at it. Batteries aren't cheap, and if I splurge on two new ones I want to be sure there isn't ANOTHER problem (that might ruin two expensive new batteries). I guess what I'm trying to say is, the batteries going stone dead so soon after the other incident seems EXTREMELY coincidental to me.
PS: Does anyone know of an inexpensive code reader for these trucks? I'm not looking for a tuner, just something that can pull codes.

 

[Hoefler]

If your batteries are that weak, when the grid heater cycles, it can pull more power than the alternator can produce, thus taking all the available power and causing everything else to have low or no voltage and shut down. By revving it, you do 2 things, high RPMs will have the alternator produce more power and at higher RPMs the grid heater will not operate.

 

[jelag]

The grid heaters and the alternator do not run at the same time... the ECM prevents the alternator from starting for something like the first 3-5 minutes of operation so that the engine doesn't have the drag on a cold start up of the alternator trying to produce 100 amps to recharge the batteries and run the grid heater during cold warm up...

You can confirm what I'm sharing with you... look at the volt meter and turn on the head lamps... when the volt meter goes up... something after 3-5 minutes the head lamps now will get bright... while the grid heater cycles you can see the volt meter drop...

The engine uses no current once it starts, just the ECM and related circuits consume current... If it will crank and start, it will run until the alternator is started by the ECM...

Your 08 with that few of miles should be under warranty and the labor should be covered and some kind of pro-ration of the battery warranty should be in place if the batteries are bad... all my trucks except for the 04 still have their factory batteries... Before I threw money at it... . I'd let the dealer sort it out...

 

[B.G. Smith]

Could the chip in the ign. key be the problem. I was told by the dealer when I bought mine that if you attempted to start the truck three times with a non-chip key everything would quit and I would have to have it towed to dealer to get it re-set???? I would check the batteries first and see if they are really dead. bg

 

[BHiggins]

It's the factory key with the original chip, so I doubt that's the problem... I'm going to pick up two new batteries on Tuesday, and hope that's it. Hopefully between now and then someone on the forum will have experienced the same thing, and let me know for sure what it is... Hopefully.

 

[BHiggins]

@ Jelag... I agree, it SHOULD be a dealer issue. The problem is, the truck is at my house, and paying for a tow to the dealer will likely cost more than the batteries.

 

[Mark31]

I would pull the batteries out of the truck (and away from everything!)and charge each separately, making sure the charger was not on when connecting the leads. Your charger may give you a hint if anything is wrong with the batteries. After charging, and if possible, letting them "rest" for a few hours, do a load test. Make super real sure you don't "spark". Batteries that have an internal short can blow big time and yours makes me very leary! Mark

 

[jelag]

Brian... .

Do as Mark suggests, pull the batteries and take them in have them tested... Sears, or other battery seller's will test batteries free... they can tell you in less than 5 min if the battery is dead, undercharged or in fact fully charged... .

I own an 08 5500... it now has well over 100K but as I remember it came with a tow package if it failed on the road as part of the customer warranty policy... do you have that with your truck, or do you have towing with your insurance carrier... .

Geez, your on Long Island, there has to be a dealer within 15-20 miles of you... not like us country boys... my closest dealer is Spokane which is 25 miles from where I live. .

 

[TLane]

PS: Does anyone know of an inexpensive code reader for these trucks? I'm not looking for a tuner, just something that can pull codes.

You already have an inexpensive code reader built into the truck. Turn the key off - on - off - on - off - on, leaving it on the 3rd time (don't attempt to start it). The codes will appear in the odometer. It will list each code, one after the other, and then say "done". If there are no codes, it will just say "done". You have to complete the 3x off-on quickly, less than something like 5 seconds for it to work. The codes will be a letter, followed by 4 numbers or letters. You'll need to watch close to distinguish between 6 and b, for example.



Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[Mark31]

Brian... .



Do as Mark suggests, pull the batteries and take them in have them tested... Sears, or other battery seller's will test batteries free... they can tell you in less than 5 min if the battery is dead, undercharged or in fact fully charged... .



I own an 08 5500... it now has well over 100K but as I remember it came with a tow package if it failed on the road as part of the customer warranty policy... do you have that with your truck, or do you have towing with your insurance carrier... .



Geez, your on Long Island, there has to be a dealer within 15-20 miles of you... not like us country boys... my closest dealer is Spokane which is 25 miles from where I live. .

Jim, I had to laugh! You and Brian probably no speakee da same language! Every city-dweller yank I've ever met talks time instead of miles. Kinda like, "I drive an hour to work" instead of "I drive 10 miles to work". If I were a betting man, I would bet you could do 25 miles before he could do 15! Mark

 

[SierraRam]

If it is the batteries you should be throwing some codes and setting the MIL. Have wou actually put a voltage meter on the batteries? If so what kind of reading did you see?

 

[BHiggins]

I'll pull both batteries on Tuesday and have them tested, HOPEFULLY they just need to be replaced and that's the end of it. Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case. I think there's some underlying cause that BOTH batteries went dead so fast.
PS: I don't have a load tester, but I do have a volt gauge. I tested both this morning and both read ZERO voltage... Neither one could even illuminate a test light. It's like I left the headlights on for a week, but nothing's on.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Over the last 35 years of driving, I've had 3 occasions when a battery just suddenly shorted internally. At that point you cant jump or charge them. That may be what happened to one of yours.
FWIW, when I replaced my batts last year, one of the new ones was shorted!
I learned a lesson and that is to have the store check them before you leave.

 

[jelag]

Mark.....



Interesting comment about driving... . and your right... . I spent 1 week back on Long Island installing a piece of equipment... I was no more than 10 miles from where I had to go to work... . it always took 30 min, no matter the route... .



Here's the key... I'm mechanically savvy and with what I have in my tool box could test and know in 3-5 minutes where I stood on the batteries... and over night, I'd have them recharged... .



I just read Brian's last comment. . since the batteries are in parallel and if there is a draw, than in fact BOTH batteries will be down... My question is, did he touch the test light to the center of the battery post, and not attach the test light to the cable... If there were bad connections this would identify it...



And, what owner installed accessories did he install... .



Years ago, when I was a kid(young adult) I worked in a Lincoln Dealership, and we had a nice lady driving a new Lincoln... . ever few days the battery was dead... I was finally sent to the home and found the plastic garbage bag every one had back than hanging from the lighter... . it was so she could reach her purse on the floor...



She'd get into the car, put her purse on the floor and remove the litter bag from the lighter and set it on the floor on the tunnel... so if she drove the car daily there was no problem... if she drove it ever few days the battery would go dead... the weight of the liter bag would keep the lighter circuit active... . and run the battery down...



We moved the lighter circuit from always on to switched power... . problem solved, as we tried to explain to her it was her actions that ran the battery down. . she never understood... ... but the boss loved us... she bought a new car every year.....

 

[BHiggins]

I'm a former mechanic, who changed professions before everything in the industry went computerized. I checked both batteries at the post, not the terminal clamps. They were both dead. If this was one of my old (First Gen) Cummins trucks, I'd have no problem diagnosing the problem myself. But in this day and age of computers, this truck is a mystery to me. I keep coming back to one thing... I don't think BOTH batteries could have died at the same exact time all on their own, there had to be a draw on them. NOTHING was left "on" inadvertently, including accessories. The one thing that's sticking in my mind is the alarm. Could a faulty alarm/theft prevention drain both batteries like that? The night I parked it, I heard a quick succession of horn honks, like a car alarm going off. By the time I got to the window, the honking had stopped. Honestly, I thought it was my neighbor's mini-van (who's alarm sounds from time, for no apparent reason) so I didn't think about it again, until last night. Now I'm wondering if it was MY alarm I heard, and maybe the batteries died that day. Again, the honking only lasted for about ten seconds then stopped, so it's not like the alarm was going off all day to kill the batts.

 

[jakprince]

If its under warranty the dealer should have a tow truck to come get it