2011 Ford F550... 6.7L Issues...

[JUeckert]

Yes, the crack is on the valve only... The valve seats appear to be intact. While we are hoping that its an early release quality control issue. One can't help but wonder that maybe the emissions control strategy may be playing a significant factor in the valve fractures.

By altering injection rate, duration, and timing for emissions... . it would seem that it could very well add more stress/heat that initially anticipated by the design engineers. I don't pretend to be smarter than an engineer... just thorwing out possible scenarios. .

It's really hard to say at this point. Seems we both suspect injection,timing rates, yet with so many of these trucks on the road already, seems that theroy is weak. After cruiseing the net, and still questioning the dealers i visit, the amount of failures is very low. Food for thought, many years ago i worked as quality control for a steel foundry. We had a run of castings come back with stress cracks, from the heat they were subject to. We had produced hundreds of these for the customer in the past, with no issues. Long story short, after testing i found the nickel content on the batch of casting was very low. One key element missing in the metal, led to the cracking. Since the failure seems to involve the valve only, Perhaps it's isolated? On edit, i took another look at the discoloring of the valves. Seeing how you work on diesels every day, i'am sure you would agree that when you pull the head of a otherwise healthy running engine, the heads/valves typicaly have a light coating of black carbon on them. Wonder why this one has a whiteish, copperish look to it? hmmm, might be back to our original thoughts of timing/injection...

 

[MChrist]

Just a funny side note... I went to the Ford website mentioned earlier and was sniffing around. I found a thread where several guys with the new 6. 7 are noticing a ticking sound around 3,000 miles. It seems the common response to the tick is that "it's normal. ". Makes me wonder if maybe their valves are slightly cracked, too. If they have a slight crack, they would expand, and draw the valve slightly away from the rocker, thereby opening the valve lash slightly. Maybe that's the ticking. Or it's the ticking of a time bomb, just waiting... ... ... ... ... .....

 

[Wingate]

It's really hard to say at this point. Seems we both suspect injection,timing rates, yet with so many of these trucks on the road already, seems that theroy is weak. After cruiseing the net, and still questioning the dealers i visit, the amount of failures is very low. Food for thought, many years ago i worked as quality control for a steel foundry. We had a run of castings come back with stress cracks, from the heat they were subject to. We had produced hundreds of these for the customer in the past, with no issues. Long story short, after testing i found the nickel content on the batch of casting was very low. One key element missing in the metal, led to the cracking. Since the failure seems to involve the valve only, Perhaps it's isolated? On edit, i took another look at the discoloring of the valves. Seeing how you work on diesels every day, i'am sure you would agree that when you pull the head of a otherwise healthy running engine, the heads/valves typicaly have a light coating of black carbon on them. Wonder why this one has a whiteish, copperish look to it? hmmm, might be back to our original thoughts of timing/injection...

Only reason I am wondering about the fuel mapping is that while surfin around on other forums, so far, I haven't seen any of the 400hp tuned engines with valve failures... I have several different 400 hp engines with holes in the block and a couple of turbo failures, but none with valve failure. I DID find another F550(300 hp) out in California that also ate a valve. .

I am fairly certain that Ford did NOT design two different valves for the different trucks, but the mapping is completely different. . (and different turbos from what I understand)

We very well could be cooking the exhaust valves at certain speed/load conditions. . there is no pyrometer to check/verify this. . so again, speculation... .

 

[Wingate]

Food for thought, many years ago i worked as quality control for a steel foundry. We had a run of castings come back with stress cracks, from the heat they were subject to. We had produced hundreds of these for the customer in the past, with no issues. Long story short, after testing i found the nickel content on the batch of casting was very low. One key element missing in the metal, led to the cracking.





You referring to "White Iron"???? Years ago, I ran into a cylinder block with a case of this... it was a very small area that was almost non-detectable... but caused a persistent low oil pressure condition due to being extremely porus.

We eventually used a 320C to break that block into small pieces before hauling it off to scrap... . didn't want ANY chance of it ever coming back!!!.

 

[AH64ID]

I thought the 6. 7 ECM moniterd a pre-turbo pyro?

 

[Wingate]

I thought the 6. 7 ECM moniterd a pre-turbo pyro?

Could be. . I don't know... but if it does, WE can't see it on the in-cab display system.

With all the EGR cooling and piping, seems as though there could be a huge difference in what the temp is at the valve face vs. what it is at the turbo...

Ford is unable to provide an engine at this point. . we have heard rumor that they are going to ship a long block and the dealership will have to transition the remaining parts..... but that has not happened... . nor have they produced a complete engine for replacement.

 

[HBarlow]

Wingate,

How long have your company's failed Furds been out of service already? Has Furd been unable to provide a delivery date for a replacement engine?

 

[Wingate]

Mid January... I waited about 2-3 weeks before posting anything due to wanting to hear exactly what had went wrong.

Trying to be as "impartial" as possible and just relay info... Its not up to any of us whether this engine design will be a feast or famine... just trying to relay some credible info.

 

[AH64ID]

Could be. . I don't know... but if it does, WE can't see it on the in-cab display system.

With all the EGR cooling and piping, seems as though there could be a huge difference in what the temp is at the valve face vs. what it is at the turbo...

But if it monitors its for ECM knowledge and fueling, I know for a fact the 6. 4 has a pre-turbo pyro for the ECM, and have heard the 6. 7 is the same. If it has one, then it "should" defuel according to excessive fueling. But should is the key word...



I would don't see how EGR cooling and piping will effect pre-turbo EGT's. The EGR will pull some air, but wont cool it in the manifold. The cooler is between the manifold and the intake.

 

[Wingate]

But if it monitors its for ECM knowledge and fueling, I know for a fact the 6. 4 has a pre-turbo pyro for the ECM, and have heard the 6. 7 is the same. If it has one, then it "should" defuel according to excessive fueling. But should is the key word...



I would don't see how EGR cooling and piping will effect pre-turbo EGT's. The EGR will pull some air, but wont cool it in the manifold. The cooler is between the manifold and the intake.

yeah, Im not sure. . like I previously stated, if it monitors exhaust temp, it doesnt broadcast it on the in-cab display. Just hoping that its (the failure) not a trend, hoping that its an isolated incident.

Heard that the repairing dealer received a long block assembly yesterday... So we are hoping that the truck will be operational by weeks end. .

 

[MLee]

Is Navistar helping Ford with there graphite engine block? There new engine, Max force incorporates a graphite block like Fords. This would be strange if they were.

 

[MChrist]

Is Navistar helping Ford with there graphite engine block? There new engine, Max force incorporates a graphite block like Fords. This would be strange if they were.

I believe there is a mutual hatred between the two, so I doubt it.

 

[Grizzly]

I believe there is a mutual hatred between the two, so I doubt it.

There is no love between Navistar and Ford. In fact, there are law suits going back and forth.



george

 

[BSeyler]

I wonder how their differences about their engine problems have effected their joint truck venture. Is Navistar still building the F650 and F750 for Ford in Escobedo, Mexico?

 

[Grizzly]

I wonder how their differences about their engine problems have effected their joint truck venture. Is Navistar still building the F650 and F750 for Ford in Escobedo, Mexico?

No, the only engine available for the medium duty Ford is a 6. 7 Cummins. Not too long ago Ford offered a Cummins or a Caterpillar engine, but Cat no longer wants a part of that market.

 

[rscurtis]

Navistar just recently increased their share of ownership Blue Diamond, but I don't know where the trucks are made. If my 2002 4300 was any indication, this deal doesn't bode well for Ford, IMO.

 

[BSeyler]

No, the only engine available for the medium duty Ford is a 6. 7 Cummins. Not too long ago Ford offered a Cummins or a Caterpillar engine, but Cat no longer wants a part of that market.

True on the engines. My question was if Navistar was still building the truck for Ford in Escebedo. The Blue Diamond Joint Venture was formed in late 2001 and all 650 and 750 Fords since 2004 have been built by Navistar using a common chassis. Ford bodies and cummins engines are used on Fords. Navistar uses their engines and bodies on Navistar branded trucks. Just wondered how that relationship was going.

 

[bheiting]

I was discussing this with my son the other day and he told me to go to "powerstrokenation.com" and look at the 6. 7L Technical thread. There are several document issue with the new 6. 7L Ford engine. One is labeled 6. 7L carnage, which shows a burnt piston, bent pushrods, and a glow plug tip broken off.

What is funny about this is the way the poster was attached by some of the readers of his post. The guy is a ford mechanic at a dealership and they attached him for showing this on the web site.

There is another report of a tubo failure on a different thread.

I think Ford may have another serious issue with their diesel engines in the making similar to the 6. 0L engine.

Jim W

The "carnage" thread is a really interesting study in human psychology. There's a lot of denial over in Fordland. Some are accusing the thread poster of using phony pictures, etc. I kinda feel for small business owners who are without their trucks for months while Ford sorts out the damage. But weren't these folks aware of Fords previous diesel problems? I mean, there's plenty of product info. on the web these days. Powerstrokenation doesn't have any where near the technical savy of this forum, but then, if they knew better they wouldn't be spending $60M on a Powerstroke in the first place.

 

[AH64ID]

if they knew better they wouldn't be spending $60M on a Powerstroke in the first place.

Thats an expensice truck!

 

[Grizzly]

True on the engines. My question was if Navistar was still building the truck for Ford in Escebedo. The Blue Diamond Joint Venture was formed in late 2001 and all 650 and 750 Fords since 2004 have been built by Navistar using a common chassis. Ford bodies and cummins engines are used on Fords. Navistar uses their engines and bodies on Navistar branded trucks. Just wondered how that relationship was going.

Oh, I thought we were talking about engines. mia coupa!



george