Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) killer dowl pin for early 2002

[hsmith]

All fan clutches loosen in the direction of rotation. Otherwise they would be trying to comeoff all the time.

No problem with aligning the balancer on 12 valves either. Four bolt holes are a square pattern.

 

[fstfish66]

thanks for all the advise

 

[mhenon]

Just ordered the Dowel repair kit from TST. I had no idea the '02's where subject to the "Killer Dowel Pin" syndrome!! I'll post a few photo's if anything looks outta place.

Thanks for the heads up..... Mike

 

[fstfish66]

ok here goes,,,,first of all thanks to every one that commented on this topic,,with out this board,i would of never known all these items that need attention,,



but my thinking,cummins has been building diesel motors for years,,IMO these items needing attention on this vehicle should of never been a design problem,,, killer dowl pin,,,fuel lift pump,,,,blo bi bottle,,,



i removed the radiator,man was it caked,,,and never had a temp problem,,,

pulled the timing cover the killer pin was in solid as a rock,,,but i stil in stalled the long bolt and pin cover kit from genos,,,the metal tang had to be reworked, bent,,ground,filed to fit properly,,



i flushed the system,,clean as can be 8 years 96 000 miles,,anti freeze still looked great,,, replacing all hoses,,and noticed the intercooler hoses seem very soft,, so ill search for a better type hose then the O E ,,



bought a stant thermostat,,genos does not carry a cummins stat,,so i bought a brand name,,all tho it doesnt look as beefy as the orignal,the stant has the jiggle pins like the orignal to help eliminate air in the system,,



degreased the radiator,,using simple green and engine degreaser,,,did it out in the rain,,so i know its rinsed really well,,, cleaned all the plastic bottles as well,,,,i will replace the water pump,,all related hoses,,,and look for a good spot to relocate the blo bi bottle,,im thinking at the trans cross member using pvc pipe ????? hoping to never have to degrese this mess again,,,,

 

[RSchiedeck]

I have seen more bolts come loose then the KDP on both 12v and 24v engines

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[DCreed]

just extend the blow by hose down to the diff and leave it.

 

[fstfish66]

just extend the blow by hose down to the diff and leave it.

i orignally thought that,,,but now im thinking all that junk may get in to the front hubs,or brakes,,im going to try to run a pvc pipe to the trans cross member,,or some where in that direction,,



any one know of any better hose couplers for the intercooler connections ??? the orignals seem really soft,,,



thanks every one

 

[DCreed]

Diesel Auto Power- Good Service, Great Products, Excellent Prices!!! Willing to match/beat any legitimate price.

 

[fstfish66]

thanks ill save there link,,and give them a calll

 

[mhenon]

Just ordered the Dowel repair kit from TST. I had no idea the '02's where subject to the "Killer Dowel Pin" syndrome!! I'll post a few photo's if anything looks outta place.

Thanks for the heads up..... Mike

Well... it's done. The job wasn't too bad but not something a novice would want to tackle. My dowel pin was driven in pretty deep and all the other capscrews were tight so everything was in order. A couple of things I noticed that might be of interest.

The 10mm hex bolt next to the dowel pin and the other 5 capscrews (they were supposed to be 10mm also) were actually T40 torx head bolts. Had to run down to Autozone and pick up a T40 socket to finish the job.

Also, the two capscrews behind the cam drive gear were not accessable. You can see by the photo that you can't back them out without removing the cam gear. The three holes in my cam gear were too narrow and covered about half the capscrew. My rig is a late model '02 built in Mexico so maybe they were using different capscrews and gears. Those two screws were in there tight and I did get threadlocker on the others so... .

My timing cover had no boss or shoulder to prevent the dowel pin from backing out. I was just lucky in that respect. There's no way to know without pulling the cover.

The front crank seal was a little intimidating. You get one shot at getting it right. TST provides what they call a seal driver which helps you seat the seal exactly where it needs to be but the instructions weren't real clear. You also need to put the plastic seal starter guide back in place before re-installing the cover. It seems wrong but it will squirt right through the seal as you push the cover over the crankshaft. Get a few screws started and the plastic guide can be pulled off the crank.

All in all not that tough. Getting the fan out was the biggest PITA. I did it myself but an extra set of hands would have helped.

Photo's show:

1. engine with timing cover off

2. dowel hole and T40 bolt

3. New tab with hex bolt covering dowel hole . Also notice the cam gear and how it covers up the T40 capscrew.

 

[fstfish66]

same here all finished up,,4/5 hours of degreasing parts,,,wiper fluid bottle over flow bottle fan,,,radiator,,, i moved the blo bi bottle to the trans cross member,,,not cleaing that junk again,,,



same here torx bit bolts,, my dowl pin was in solid as a rock,,but still put the kit in to hold it from moving,



getting the fan off was a PITA,, till i rememebred every oen here talking about the 10 mm bolts,,, i bought a fan wrench from GENO,S and i could not brake that big nut loose,, so i removed the 4 bolt boss,,



water pump and t stat were a piece of cake,, the spring clamps on the radiator hoses stink,, i replaced them with triditional screw clamps,,,



i also replaced ALL the heater hoses and the by pass hoses,,,pulled out al the pipeing for the heater hoses,,none of those spring clamps were in a friendly position,, took longer then ill admit to get all those small hoses out and replaced,,did a flush before hand,, was clean as can be in side,,,,refilled and ran the motor till the t stat opened[ tooook 25 minutes with the radiator covered and holding the throttle open every now and then/COLOR]

 

[kurgan]

mhenon,

My truck is also a 02 from Mexico. I too have the torx bolts, looks the same as yours. All the bolts seemed fine to me. One thing that bugs me is the hole for my pin is smaller than any of the pictures i've seen on the net. I can see a pin in there, but the hole looks smaller. Other than that, my case innards look exactly like yours. I put the cover back on today without doing anything to the pin :-( The cummins place near me didn't have the tabs in stock, so I didn't put one in.

 

[DCreed]

sounds like you have the stepped case so no need to tab, but you should still red locktite the case to block bolts around/behind the cam.

 

[kurgan]

sounds like you have the stepped case so no need to tab, but you should still red locktite the case to block bolts around/behind the cam.

I checked the bolts I could get to, all tight. I admit, I did not remove them. The bolts behind the cam gear are hard to get to. I just barely could get the torx bit into one of them, but I couldn't see any way to get the bolts out without removing the cam/cam gear.

 

[Tractorat]

My truck is an early 02 (bought it the week after 9/11) and made in mexico. I just had the crankshaft seal replaced. The place down in enumclaw that I had the service done at said that my truck did not have the kdp problem. I specifically asked about it, since they would be working in that area. And, they have quite a bit of flyers around the shop regarding the kdp. So, I would be surprised if a mexican truck, early 02 would have the issue.

 

[JDoiron]

I have read a lot about this killer dowel pin. What cover are we talking about and exactly what does this dowel pin do?

 

[JCyrbok]

I have read a lot about this killer dowel pin. What cover are we talking about and exactly what does this dowel pin do?

the "cover" is the front gear train colver on the engine (behind the fan etc).



The dowel pin is a large (like 1 inch diameter) pin that is used for alingment purposes when the engine is being build if I remember correctly. The pin can work its way out of the front of the block over time and fall into the gear train and cause alllllllll kinds of problems.



from 01 on Cummins supposedly took care of the problem with a different front case and cover but obviously there are some 01 and 02's that ended up having the same problem.



Easiest fix if your truck does not have the updated case/cover is to remove the gear train cover and install a tab that retains the dowel pin. the kits are like 10 bucks from Genos but be ready to invest atleast a full Saturday doing the fix due to the stuff that you have to remove/replace to get at the pin.



J-

 

[Ncostello]

No pin I've seen is 1" in diameter. More like 1/4 inch or slightly larger.



I've written, and have read several good threads on this topic here. Bottom line is that I spoke with a Cummins engineer in Columbus and there is NO way to identify whether your ISB has the improved case or not. The plan was that all ISB's got the new case... but many did not. No serial number, part number, build date or plant code will help.



Using the jig fix is a waste of time. Between the possibility of drill shavings getting in there, and not knowing if the pin has moved at all... it really is working blind. You MUST also remove and loctite the case bolts as well. They can do equal or worse damage. Read the 1st gen forums for a case of this. The two bolts you can't remove because of the gears (unless you remove them) must be torque checked using a specially bent 10mm wrench.



As far as the tab method is concerned... its more than necessary really. Just another piece of metal in there to cause damage. All you have to do is make sure the dowel is seated, apply some green wicking locktite... and take a small diameter punch and peen the bore rim edge in 4 places around the circumference. This will prevent the pin from coming out of the bore. Once the bore is peened (or dented/deformed) it is basically like the improved cases. And its the cost of wicking loctite... which you should have anyway. Once this is done... the pin cannot come out... not no way... not no how (wizard of oz).



In my opinion... Cummins should have cast the bore as a blind hole from the block side. Obviously this would be the ultimate fix. The improved cases simply have a rim edge on the inner diameter of the bore. I see no reason the bore should remain open from the factory. Perhaps save metal on the casting?

 

[kurgan]

Well, this thread has worried me so bad that I took the cover back off my truck. I removed cleaned and applied red loc-tite, then torqued the two in-case bolts I could get to. As for the bolts behind the cam gear, I just checked their torque, cleaned them, then tried to get green loc-tite around them as best I could. I honestly contemplated pulling the gear off the cam so I could do the three behind the cam, but I just can't bring myself to go through that right now. I do have to get this thing running again someday.

 

[Ken Roberts]

Kdp

No pin I've seen is 1" in diameter. More like 1/4 inch or slightly larger.



As far as the tab method is concerned... its more than necessary really. Just another piece of metal in there to cause damage. All you have to do is make sure the dowel is seated, apply some green wicking locktite... and take a small diameter punch and peen the bore rim edge in 4 places around the circumference. This will prevent the pin from coming out of the bore. Once the bore is peened (or dented/deformed) it is basically like the improved cases. And its the cost of wicking loctite... which you should have anyway. Once this is done... the pin cannot come out... not no way... not no how (wizard of oz).



In my opinion... Cummins should have cast the bore as a blind hole from the block side. Obviously this would be the ultimate fix. The improved cases simply have a rim edge on the inner diameter of the bore. I see no reason the bore should remain open from the factory. Perhaps save metal on the casting?

In my experience, most Japanese motorcycle manufacturers use a hollow locating dowel and run a bolt thru it. The dowel does it's job, the bolt holds the dowel in place. Simple.

You mean to tell me that Cummins couldn't have made one of the bolt holes bigger, put the dowel pin in the larger hole and run the bold thru it?

Anyway, the tab will work, the pin punch and wicking locktite method will work. I will do mine asap. Yanno, in the spring.



Ken R