Ethanol blend and small engines

[CBlack]

I have an Echo trimmer that is about 4 years old.



It has been getting harder and harder to start.



Come to find out the gas I've been using is the culprit as it has ethanol.



I never would have thought that a blend like that would wreak havoc on small engines. My wife also knows someone who had to buy a new mower because of the same problem.



Moral of the story: Stay away from ethanol blended gasoline!

 

[JLEONARD]

I never would have thought that a blend like that would wreak havoc on small engines

Those of us in the northeast who have small outboard engines have known about this trouble for several years now. Even 2 cycles. Gas MUST be treated with a good additive such as Valvetech, Stabil, I'm sure there are more. Additives must NOT contain alcohol (this would add to the problem).

I have also been told by 2 who went to a class on the new gas that 30 days is the limit for storage although I store mine for longer with the additive and have been trouble free.

What I do is mix 2 cycle in small containers that can get used up in a few months. Straight gas I use for the lawnmower and snowblower gets dumped into the vehicles after a month or two and the can gets fresh stuff.



In addition to that our marina mechanic finds that the ethanol attacks the adhesives that hold the fuel hose in place in the outboard tanks. It also delaminates the marine fuel hoses. It attacks the "older" stuff that was made before ethanol gas and of course the suff made the first few years until the problems surfaced. I'm sufre it affects equipment like trimmers, mowers, etc in a similar way. Nice huh?



Oh yes... want to know how many boats with built in fiberglass gas tanks in our area had to have them replaced after the first year of ethanol? 2 in our marina and it's a small marina.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I purchase gasoline for all my small engines at a local station that has a big banner across the pumps, "No Ethanol". I also add Sta-bil to all the gasoline winter and summer.



Bill

 

[CBlack]

I never would have thought that a blend like that would wreak havoc on small engines

Those of us in the northeast who have small outboard engines have known about this trouble for several years now. Even 2 cycles. Gas MUST be treated with a good additive such as Valvetech, Stabil, I'm sure there are more. Additives must NOT contain alcohol (this would add to the problem).

I have also been told by 2 who went to a class on the new gas that 30 days is the limit for storage although I store mine for longer with the additive and have been trouble free.

What I do is mix 2 cycle in small containers that can get used up in a few months. Straight gas I use for the lawnmower and snowblower gets dumped into the vehicles after a month or two and the can gets fresh stuff.



In addition to that our marina mechanic finds that the ethanol attacks the adhesives that hold the fuel hose in place in the outboard tanks. It also delaminates the marine fuel hoses. It attacks the "older" stuff that was made before ethanol gas and of course the suff made the first few years until the problems surfaced. I'm sufre it affects equipment like trimmers, mowers, etc in a similar way. Nice huh?



Oh yes... want to know how many boats with built in fiberglass gas tanks in our area had to have them replaced after the first year of ethanol? 2 in our marina and it's a small marina.

Well now I know! I wish I would have known this before hand. I guess driving a diesel I don't pay close enough attention to what is going on in the gasoline world. Thanks for the info.

I purchase gasoline for all my small engines at a local station that has a big banner across the pumps, "No Ethanol". I also add Sta-bil to all the gasoline winter and summer.



Bill

Yep, there is a store a little further from me that has the same "No Ethanol" sign and that's where I'll be going from now on.

 

[WCPoe]

If using Stabil be sure to get their blue green colored Stabil formulated for ethanol laced gas.





Stabil





There is also a new enzyme type treatment for ethanol problems from Starbrite called "Star Tron Enzyme fuel treatment". Boaters have been using the stuff, see link here:



Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment - Star Tron Products



Oo.

 

[DSeamans]

The place I get my chainsaws through was telling me about a dealer in northern WI that was having an extremely high meltdown rate. Stihls, jonsered, huskys, and even briggs mowers. A briggs factory rep finally figured it out. The only station in a 30 mile radius was a Kwik Trip. Their fuel wasn't pre-mixed. The driver would dump the gas and when the tank was close to full he would add the ethanol according to a piece of paper. He dipped and tested the fuel over a couple of weeks. It tested at 23-25%! He said that normal, non flex fuel high compression engines can handle up to 12-13%. After seeing the fuel everyone used, he was suprised they didn't have a 100% meltdown rate. I too drive however far necessary to find pure gas. That's all I run in my boat, ranger, saws, mower, ETC. And I don't run Kwik trip in anything!



Dave

 

[rbattelle]

There was an article in the last Diesel Progress about the coming E15 issue. Small engine manufacturers are very concerned that people are going to use this fuel in their equipment and destroy it in even shorter order.

-Ryan

 

[SRadke]

We pay $. 30 more for non ethanol gas in the bulk farm tank. It's money well spent.

 

[AWeiman]

last week purchased a new cub cadet riding mower and noticed on the fender it said not to use anything higher than a 10% ethanol blend. does anybody know are the newer small engines built to handle 10% ethanol? i know states have mandated e-10 standards so i would assume most new small engines are built to handle it.

 

[MLee]

If you can not find Star Tron on the auto dept self, try the lawn and garden area. --- or---The marine section of the sporting goods section. Or, just go the your marine dealer.

 

[MLee]

Thank you EPA, You morons. Some more rules with out checking what will happen in a motorized world.

 

[mwilson]

Many, many snowmobiles died a horrible death up here in Maine the first year that ethanol was added to the gas.



Expensive learning curve courtesy of the State Of Maine trying to be just like Commiefornia.



It did blow up some of the Game Wardens snowmobiles also which was only proper given the circumstances... ... :-laf



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

I have a question... .



When our gas was cut with 10% Ethanol the fuel mileage dropped about 2 mpg in the average car.

So you use more gas to cover the same distance.

Equal if not more emissions result as more fuel is burned.



What the heck sense does that make???



Do I need to ask a politician????:-laf



Just askin'



Mike.

 

[MChildress]

Remember the big ethanol push in the early 80's. The alcohol raged havoc dissolving fuel lines and gaskets not to mention the short shelf life and moisture issues. They have made the fuel lines and gaskets on the new vehicles alcohol resistant not giving a second thought to all the other vehicles and gasoline engines out there. Guess they figure everybody can go buy new car,chainsaw,tiller,lawn mower,boat engine,tiller,weed eater,blower,4 wheeler,generator and anything else you might have that runs on gasoline. Maybe an attempt by our legislators thinking this might stimulate our economy by forcing everyone to have to replace all their gasoline engine driven equipment. It sure does not make since as a fuel. It is less efficient and needs to be thrown out after 6 months. You know everybody is properly getting rid of it as weed killer and pouring on ant beds.

 

[rbattelle]

last week purchased a new cub cadet riding mower and noticed on the fender it said not to use anything higher than a 10% ethanol blend. does anybody know are the newer small engines built to handle 10% ethanol?

The article in DP said that yes, small engines now can handle up to 10% ethanol, but NOT 15%. Now that the EPA says that normal engines can safely use 15% ethanol, you may now begin finding 15% ethanol fuels. But these absolutely SHOULD NEVER be used in equipment not certified for up to 15% ethanol.

When our gas was cut with 10% Ethanol the fuel mileage dropped about 2 mpg in the average car.

So you use more gas to cover the same distance.

Equal if not more emissions result as more fuel is burned.

Usually emissions rules are expressed as mass emitted per mile. So mileage is normalized out, and even though you burn more fuel per mile, you emit less per mile. Obviously this ignores the whole issue of using up supply and artificially inflating the demand for the product, but since the government heavily subsidizes corn they have a vested interest in encouraging its consumption. This is usually the part where someone points out how silly it is that we live in a "free" society and yet the government clearly believes its role is to choose who will prosper and who will not.

Maybe an attempt by our legislators thinking this might stimulate our economy by forcing everyone to have to replace all their gasoline engine driven equipment.

Okay, here's where I get all conspiratorial. I have been saying for years that the ultimate goal of the EPA (as far as vehicles go) is to force every person to purchase a new car by outlawing older cars which don't meet today's emissions regulations. They would do this by putting out a regulation that says you must either retrofit vehicles that don't meet today's emission standards ($$$$$$$$$) or take the vehicles out of service (presumably replacing them with new vehicles).



That is precisely what CARB did (or is going to do - I think the ruling has been put on hold pending economic recovery) to on and off-highway trucks. It is my opinion that this is a pilot program for implementation across the rest of the country. It'll start with off-highway equipment, followed by commercial on-highway equipment above class 5, and finally all passenger vehicles.



Figure the EPA lags CARB by roughly 10 years. Maybe I'm crazy, though. After all, it's for the children. Won't somebody please think of the children!?



-Ryan

 

[MLee]

Is ethenal in all grades Of gas? or just Regular? The station operators don't have this information. They have that ? on there faces when asked.

 

[mwilson]

In all 3 grades of Gas here in the Great State Of Maine.



Mike.

 

[rbattelle]

I think they are required to at least post a sign that indicates what quantity of ethanol is present. No sign implies no ethanol content.

I hope...

-Ryan