Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Engine surging without touching the pedal.

[Weatherman1964]

My 2001 acted up last night. I needed to tow a friend back to my garage for repairs in a warmer atmosphere. We were at a light, foot on the brake... engine surged real hard repeatedly, scary hard, like gonna take off and run the red light. Took it out for a test drive. It revs up in neutral but won't go over 1500 rpms in drive. Surges when not touching the pedal, get a dead pedal feeling when trying to accelerate.



Codes are 113, 121, 118, 238, 343, 523, 563, 622, 753, 1475, 1693, 1765.



Most are voltage codes, excessive voltage to ECM, excessive voltage to gauges, etc. The transmission codes are normal since the full DTT trans was installed. Fuel pressure is normal 15 p. s. i. .



I've notice the APPS has been acting up when cold or damp, usually straightens itself out after it warms up during snow plowing. It has a dead spot around 70mph and will hesitate, then take off as I move the pedal around. It does this in lower gears as well, hesitate, then surge as the pedal is moved.



Should I start with the APPS or look at the wiring to the new alternator? Alternator was installed in October, and I had a re-route a wire and it's now tight against the alt. housing.



Maybe I'll start with a piece of rubber around that wire and then go in and clean the APPS connection AGAIN! I cleaned it and used dielectric grease last spring.



Anyone else have any ideas? Need to plow snow tonight and tomorrow. Can't have it trying to accelerate when I'm plowing, I often back up close to parked cars & such.



Thanks in advance.

 

[BIGNASTY]

ITS NOT A TOYOTA IS IT (sorry for being a smart *** ) its jsut me

 

[Weatherman1964]

Toyota... LOL Gonna wait till after the race to work on it. Hope its not something I can't fix in the garage tonight.

 

[Weatherman1964]

Now it's running rough, loping @ idol, wondering whats wrong now! Might have done some damage to the VP44 last night, surging on and off the power in rapid succession.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Is the charging system working properly?

When things really weird start, I clean all the grounds and the battery terminals.

Eliminate the easy things first.

 

[Weatherman1964]

Charging system is fine. Been out plowing snow. I stopped by the dealer, tech says APPS is bad. Now I need to find one before the next snow.

 

[Weatherman1964]

Installed new APPS from Blue Chip Diesel. Still have problems. Pedal is very slow to respond, sluggish. Engine is either accelerating or decelerating. It will not hold any RPM, it's just either up or down. Very low on power. Codes are 118, 121, 236, 238, 343, 523, 563, 622, 753, 1693, 1765.

I'm at my wits end on this thing.

 

[Weatherman1964]

No help from anyone? Because it's electrical. If I wanted to swap gear ratio's, you'd be all over it.

 

[bromano676]

most of the codes seem to be too high or too low. I would bet that they are actually at the end of their range. as if you unplugged the sensor. A sensor has limits and the computer does not know if it is at the limit or beyond it. it can only display too high or too low. With the number of codes you are throwing, I am willing to bet that there is something going on with the voltage either supply to the ecm or internal to the ecm.



Did the tech tell you why he thought the APPS was bad? if the voltage was low or surging he might have been on to something. The APPS uses a . 5 to 5 volt signal I believe. that voltage is generated from the ECM.



I would try putting a good volt meter on the battery and see if the voltage jumps around. check when the engine is surging, try and raise the idle to smoth things out and see if it changes.



Then try the same thing on the APPS votage signal.



I find it hard to believe that all those sensors are bad or that the sensors are indicating that many problems. There has to be one thing that has caused these to do this.



The other thing I have seen is that one bad sensor or a short can drag voltage and cause all sensors to freak out. so you could try unplugging one by one and see if anything changes. look over all wiring harness' real good too

 

[Weatherman1964]

My thoughts exactly. ECM or harness is my guess. I turned ignition on and gauges read normal. Start the engine and check engine bell rings, temp gauge pegs, oil gauge reads high. Check gauges light is on. No power, very slow to accelerate, cannot get more than 60-65 mph. I've crawled all over the motor, looking, tugging, checking all plugs and connectors, looking for ground connections, etc.

Someone told me to have the ECM reflashed, remove all codes. Think I should try removing the EDGE box connections? Oh hell, I'll just do it and see. Any more advice would be appreciated. More snow tomorrow, I can't just go drop it off at the dealer. It runs. But it's just not right.

 

[Little NTC]

Weatherman, did you figure out your problem? I've been watching this thread as I have a friend with a similar problem on his 2000 2500.

 

[bromano676]

Sorry I dissappeared for a while. I actually forgot I had posted, so I forgot to check back.



Anyway, did you try probing the 5 volt signal from the APPS with the engine off. It should be . 5 volts about. Then start up the truck and see what it is. My guess is that it is jumping around. If it is jumping around, that would be the cause of the surging. try and press down on the pedal and see if the voltage jumps around with a steady pedal.



If the voltage is consistant I would guess that the problem is the ECM. You could try a smarty. smarty is able to remove the program and reinstall it. but I would think the problem is more hardware then software.



From what I have read Bob Wagner is the ecm guru. I have no experience with him but I have read all good stuff.

 

[bromano676]

i just reread the first post. Have you replaced the APPS yet. Try and unplug the APPS with the truck running. Try unplug the APPS with the truck off then start it up and see if the check engine light comes on and see if the gauges flip out on you. It seems that it is APPS related.

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

I had very similar symptoms on my '01 and it turned out to be ECM. I had a cummins shop replace it with a used auto ECM and it fixed the problem but the cruise wouldn't work so I bought a rebuilt one from Ebay. Some company out of Florida They gave me a lifetime warranty with it and it was around $500 - about $600 less than what Cummins or DC wanted for their branded rebuilt one. See if you can borrow one out of someone elses to see if it fixes your problems.

 

[Chief USA]

How old and what condition are the batteries in? A bad/shorted battery can wreak havoc with the system.

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

DODGE RAM TRUCK Cummins Diesel Computer ECM ECU PCM - eBay (item 370418760460 end time Mar-08-11 11:18:16 PST)



I know this is not for your year but this is the company. If you are in need I bet they could take your order. Mine is going on 3 years with no issues.

 

[PVanderlugt]

How old and what condition are the batteries in? A bad/shorted battery can wreak havoc with the system.

that would be my starting point, has similar issues, ended up being batteries, they were 9 years old, but still had "green cat eyes" my problems didn't start till it started to get cold (grid heaters)what changed the demand on the alternator /batteries and it started to throw all kinds of strange and weird codes and run like crap. New batteries fixed everything. You can thank Dodge for designing a very poor electrical system.

Pete

 

[Weatherman1964]

APPS has been changed. Have not run the truck without APPS being hooked up. Pedal is very sluggish, it's either accelerating weakly or decelerating, will not hold any rpm. Batteries are 3 years old. I have a new alternator and use the truck for plowing. Everything works as normal when plowing, therefore I feel the batteries are fine, engine cranks strong as ever and I have good voltages, 13. 6v when running. I have no 'wait to start' light at all. It smokes bad at start up because of no heaters running. I'll go out anad start it and make me a YouTube video for you all. I was told by the Bridgeway Cummins shop to check all grounds, even run new ones to make sure.

 

[Chief USA]

Have you individually tested both batteries. From what you describe they sound OK but it would eliminate the possibility of a bad battery from the problem.

 

[Weatherman1964]

YouTube - March 10, 2011 3:00 PM

Under the fuse block is a circuit board with many diodes or resistors for each circuit on the truck? Is my understanding correct? Do I need to investigate the fuse block on the drivers side fender? With these severe MI winters and much salt in use on our roads, I assume I have bad grounds. I'm just not sure where everything grounds out on this truck.