k&n filter

[bheiting]

Save some money and use window screen - it'll filter out just as much. If you use K&N, don't tell Cummins, they'll void your warranty.

 

[mhsmith57]

Would any of you recommend the Banks filter system? My truck is stock and after adding a new exhaust, I'd like to do something with the air filter system. I'm 53, have a 2005 2wd quad cab s/b... and it's my last! Cummins... how can you go wrong.

Mark

 

[bheiting]

Diesel Power tested a number of after market filter systems on the Cummins. None provided a HP boost. I give Diesel Power credit 'cause they earn their living selling a lot of this stuff.

 

[HBarlow]

Diesel Power tested a number of after market filter systems on the Cummins. None provided a HP boost. I give Diesel Power credit 'cause they earn their living selling a lot of this stuff.

Facts like these get in the way of opinions and wishful thinking some of our members stubbornly hold onto.

The guys that buy and believe in K&N air filters probably also buy the magic potions advertised on late night television that claim to make their male members longer.

Each to his own.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Are the two previous posts a misprint or do Harvey and bhating actually agree on something??



Sam

 

[Bob4x4]

Instead of using test results done in a lab and not in the real world, I have been my own lab. I have used a K&N since my truck was new. It and other mods helped me lower temps that were too high for me when my truck was stock. Here are the lab results from three tests covering close to ten years.



Sam

That is the same way Cummins test air filter function...

 

[HBarlow]

Are the two previous posts a misprint or do Harvey and bhating actually agree on something??

Sam

We did apparently agree precisely on that subject. Unfortunately he and I do not agree on one single issue in the realm of politics.

 

[HBarlow]

Sam,

Your oil test report and defense of K&N filters presents an interesting question.

I am not an engineer so can only look at this issue from a lay person's point of view.

It seems to me that if an engine ingests tiny particles of grit in air taken in during the intake stroke, that grit is present in the combustion chamber and on the cylinder walls during the intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust stroke before it is forced out in the exhaust stream through the exhaust system during the exhaust stroke. Some of it would be picked up in the microscopic thin layer of oil that is on the cylinder wall and piston rings during the four engine cycles and would end up in the engine lube oil but it seems to my non-engineer mind that most foreign matter would only be in contact with the upper cylinder then discharged in the exhaust stream. I think most of the grit would do its damage without showing up in the oil.

When we hear of damage caused in an engine by ingesting poorly filtered intake air we don't hear of knocking or rattling caused by worn rod and main bearings, we hear of blue smoke and increased oil consumption caused by worn piston rings.

You may get away with using a K&N filter for the entire time you own your truck and the damage that is occuring may never show up. But a K&N won't work for most owners.

Air quality should be mentioned in this discussion. I have passed through the area of the country listed in your signature hundreds of times but don't know anything about the air quality. You may live in an area of relatively clean and pure mountain air. You may be able to get away with using a K&N air filter for the service life of your truck.

The air filter system designed and built or selected by OEM manufacturers must meet engine manufacturer's design specs for the life of the truck for owners wherever the trucks are sold and used.

A K&N filter is not even adequate for temporary use in farm country where farm dirt is in the air most of the time which is most of the middle United States. It is also not adequate for those living in the desert southwest where sandstorms occur frequently. An OEM filter does a great job of filtering out dirt particles in the cotton farming area where I live or in the sandstorms that occur occasionally while traveling across I-10 from west Texas to El Centro, CA. I would never install a K&N filter on anything I own.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Like yourself Harvey, I have no engineering background, and am a lay person myself. I get by at the ground level so to speak, just like you.



The oil tests have shown me that there is no excess dirt in the oil and the lack of wear metals in the oil tell me that my engine is not grinding itself to death. Blackstone has said in all my reports that my engine is wearing at an excellant rate. The theory that the dirt gets burned and spit out the exhaust doesn't work for me. I have seen other lab results from others with a high silicone numbers and the first thing the lab will say is there is a problem with air filtration, so according to them, excess dirt getting past a filter does end up in the oil. Since they are the engineers/scientist and I am not, that is good enough for me.



I am definetly not in the clean air part of the state, actually pretty close to most of the now closed RV plants you used to visit. It is quite dusty and dirty here, lots of vacant lots these days. That and a number of camping trips each year in the desert( Quartzite, off road races, and a bit of rockhounding), my truck is definetly not a on road only queen. You should see how badly my windshield in pitted from the sand.



It works for me, it will work for others and may not work for some. It is up to them to decide.



Sam

 

[MChrist]

Just for clarification: Silicon=hard, abrasive mineral associated with sand.
Silicone=soft, pliable material associated with Pamela Anderson

 

[Ram4Sam]

Just for clarification: Silicon=hard, abrasive mineral associated with sand.

Silicone=soft, pliable material associated with Pamela Anderson

Aha, just as I suspected, silicone is not always bad!:-laf



Sam

 

[HBarlow]

Like yourself Harvey, I have no engineering background, and am a lay person myself. I get by at the ground level so to speak, just like you.

The oil tests have shown me that there is no excess dirt in the oil and the lack of wear metals in the oil tell me that my engine is not grinding itself to death. Blackstone has said in all my reports that my engine is wearing at an excellant rate. The theory that the dirt gets burned and spit out the exhaust doesn't work for me. I have seen other lab results from others with a high silicone numbers and the first thing the lab will say is there is a problem with air filtration, so according to them, excess dirt getting past a filter does end up in the oil. Since they are the engineers/scientist and I am not, that is good enough for me.

I am definetly not in the clean air part of the state, actually pretty close to most of the now closed RV plants you used to visit. It is quite dusty and dirty here, lots of vacant lots these days. That and a number of camping trips each year in the desert( Quartzite, off road races, and a bit of rockhounding), my truck is definetly not a on road only queen. You should see how badly my windshield in pitted from the sand.

It works for me, it will work for others and may not work for some. It is up to them to decide.

Sam

Your statement with my emphasis added is an excellent point. At least it seems the K&N is working for you in your operating environment.

I would not use one in my environment but if it works for you that is not my concern.

 

[GSchlegel]

This is a discussion I've seen every couple years over the last 10 years I've been on TDR and everytime I see it I get upset at all the so called experts that are on here. I'll get slammed for saying this, but I've used one for the last 200,000 miles. I change oil every 5,000 miles and rarely have to add oil between changes. It used to be everyone was concerned about oil coating everything including the compressor vanes in the turbo. Not happening.



My suggestion is for everyone that hasn't used one just remember you are expressing an unfounded guestimate or just repeating a rumor. If you have used one and had a bad experiance, tell us your experiance, those of us that have had years and hundred of thousands of miles experiance should also be able to express our results.

 

[seafish]

I am pretty sure that any discrepancy in the filtering abilities of the K&N filter, like I pointed out earlier and your experience also proves, is mostly due to discrepancies in the ABILITIES of the different end users to PROPERLY clean and oil the filter, and not due to any inherent design flaw in the filter, though one COULD argue that a filter that relies on the critical abilities of the user to properly service an inexpensive part that could result in catastrophic engine failure it IS a potential design flaw, but I am not going to go there!!:-laf
Glad it is working out for you guys... I, for one, remain a happy user of the $19. 00 disposable Mopar double thick air filters !!

PS-- My dad use to run K&N filters on the dual weber carbs on his 1973 240Z with NO problems.

 

[AMink]

Besides questionable filtering capabilities, I thought I read somewhere on here that the oil in the filter can be sucked into the turbo/intake. That's not too good either. Is that true?

 

[RustyJC]

My suggestion is for everyone that hasn't used one just remember you are expressing an unfounded guestimate or just repeating a rumor.

No, the ISO 5011 test I cited earlier is purely objective and scientific, not an "... unfounded guesstimate or just (repetition of) a rumor. " The results of that testing procedure were pretty darned close to K&N's claim of 96% to 97% filtration efficiency. The difference between a 99% effective filter media and a 96% effective filter media is that for every 100 grams of dust that the filters are exposed to, the 99% media will pass 1 gram while the 96% media passes 4. That's just simple mathematics.



Now, will your engine swallow 4 grams instead of 1 gram with no ill effects? That's for each potential user to decide.





Rusty

 

[Ram4Sam]

This is a discussion I've seen every couple years over the last 10 years I've been on TDR and everytime I see it I get upset at all the so called experts that are on here. I'll get slammed for saying this, but I've used one for the last 200,000 miles. I change oil every 5,000 miles and rarely have to add oil between changes. It used to be everyone was concerned about oil coating everything including the compressor vanes in the turbo. Not happening.



My suggestion is for everyone that hasn't used one just remember you are expressing an unfounded guestimate or just repeating a rumor. If you have used one and had a bad experiance, tell us your experiance, those of us that have had years and hundred of thousands of miles experiance should also be able to express our results.

Amen brother.....



Sam

 

[RustyJC]

Amen brother.....

Yea, verily! Spoken like a true believer! :-laf



Unfortunately, beliefs and facts don't always coincide. :{





Rusty

 

[Ram4Sam]

Yea, verily! Spoken like a true believer! :-laf



Unfortunately, beliefs and facts don't always coincide. :{





Rusty

Rusty, did you not see the oil report I posted above or are you just ignoring it like a true internet expert would?



Sam

 

[RustyJC]

Lube oil analysis is an indirect measurement of air filter efficiency and, therefore, is secondary to a direct controlled test such as ISO 5011.



Yeah, I'm just a know-nothing internet expert who has worked for a manufacturer of industrial engines and compressors for over 37 years, with the past 32+ being in technical and engineering management. Our equipment operates in adverse conditions in oil and gas fields, marine environments, etc. around the world, so we know a little bit about air filtration and engine life.



But, hey, you've got a lube oil analysis report, so you obviously know more than I do.





Rusty