Well, Here We Go Again!!.. 6.7L Ford

[HBarlow]

Yep, the other one he told you about would probably be the truck to buy if you want a MDT for a heavy fifthwheel.

If you are moving in that direction spend some time reading older posts on the Escapees website. There are two good forums there, MDT and HDT where guys who are fulltime RVers in very large fifthwheels discuss the pros and cons of both.

What I learned from reading there is to get satisfactory performance from a MDT pulling a large and heavy fiver in the Rocky Mountains of the west of the Appalachians of NC, TN, and VA where you live the buyer really needs to go up to the Navistar DT-570 with HD six speed automatic, 22. 5" wheels and tires, air brakes, air suspension, and air seats, crew cab with all the cab comfort items and equipment. The option list plus conversion gets very long to get a truck that will do a better job than our Rams and the price tag will reach $125k!

The other point of view on the Escapees HDT forum is that for the price of a new Ram dually capable of pulling a fiver you can buy a moderate milege retired OTR tractor with all the bells and whistles convert it to single drive axle, add an air ride hitch, and it will walk up any mountain grade in the US in top gear with the heaviest fiver built behind it. Of course the buyer gives up the versatility and ease of operation of a Ram dually and gets into extremely expensive repairs if ever needed.

Everytime I have studied the issue I go full circle and arrive back at thinking for full time or frequent heavy fiver towing a Ram 4500 with a tow bed and extra fuel tanks would be the best and most affordable compromise.

 

[CUMMINZ]

#ad




Towing this behind.





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This is one a friend of mine converted.



#ad

 

[HBarlow]

Yep, that's the ones I was thinking of. I see you are also familiar with the website and folks that use HDTs to pull large, heavy fivers.

If I was ever planning to be a full time RVer that is probably what I would do. The MDTs always interest me but it seems that when you buy one large enough to handle a large fiver with ease the truck itself weighs twice what our Rams do which requires a huge engine and transmission to handle the load, burns more fuel, and costs twice what a new Ram does. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, our Ram trucks do a pretty good job. I don't think MDTs pull any better but they are capable of stopping better and handling the load better in adverse driving conditions.

 

[CUMMINZ]

I personally took the first two photos across from the Charlotte Motor Speedway and was able to speak to both persons around the truck. The RV was a 45 footer.



The bottom photo belongs to friend who lives around Richmond, Va. and I have taken a ride in that rig. What is amazing is what he has done to the truck and RV. He said he has not found a mountain anywhere that the rig while towing will not top any hill in high gear. We camped with him and his wife at VA. Beach several months ago. Great rig. The truck is tooo big for me.

 

['strokeThis_'07]

GM could not manufacture a satisfactory V8 diesel engine for the heavy duty pickup market and Furd is proving they can't either.

Please elaborate. I'm as die-hard Dodge and Cummins as anyone, but that Duramax is a damn good engine.



The trucks are junk and I don't like the Allison, but the engine itself is great. My opinion atleast

 

[HBarlow]

Happy to elaborate for you.

The duradud is not a GM engine. It is built by Isuzu, a Japanese company who can build diesel engines. Yeah, I know. I think they are actually built in a plant in the US and GM probably also has their name on the building but it took a so-called "joint venture" with Isuzu for GM to produce an engine that can do anything except emit smoke.

And although the Isuzu V8 diesel used in GM light trucks has finally gotten over most of their major problems after years of bad results with failing injectors and overheating, they are somewhat reliable now. But the Isuzu V8 doesn't produce high torque at and just above idle like a Cummins inline six and has approximately half of the service life of a Cummins real truck motor.

 

[Wingate]

well, for anybody still interested... we lost another one last week, then another one puked yesterday morning.....





Only one left that hasnt blown up is mine... sure hoping that one of them gets replaced soon, we are out of spare trucks. .

 

[TFucili]

Man, that is just atrocious Buy Dodges and paint the engines yellow. Nobody will know

 

[MChrist]

So, how many is that?? Over what period of time?? Ford must be poopin' their pants about this...

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

WOW!!! I was hoping that this engine would be as close to reliable as the 7. 3L was, but this is confirmation (of sorts) that this is gonna be even worse than the 6. oh no!



Maybe Cummins conversion is in order??



I really don't care for or like Ford at all, but I was hoping that they could make an engine that would last at least 100k. I don't like V-8's for more reasons than one, but even the 6. 2L or 6. 5L GM seems to be even way more reliable than this engine is :-laf

 

[MChrist]

I have a thought... these problems only seem to exist in the F-450 and F-550 models, which use a different turbo system, and apparently different programming. While playing on YouTube today, there are a lot of 450s & 550s with TURBO problems... Is it then possible that the turbos are going out, not supplying enough air to cool the fuel, and burning valves???
That could happen pretty quickly... hmmmmm. . (I'm scratching my chin). Could I have found the cause of these problems?? If so, Ford can send me a large check for my services. . thank you.

 

[MChrist]

OH, and at least two of those trucks on YouTube had only around 1,300 miles on them... the plot thickens.

 

[Nyoest]

Please elaborate. I'm as die-hard Dodge and Cummins as anyone, but that Duramax is a damn good engine.



The trucks are junk and I don't like the Allison, but the engine itself is great. My opinion atleast

Severe duty use in a PICK UP life to overhaul expectancy for the duramax is 150k. Wow, that's just in a pick up. I don't want my power company driving those. They do run good though.



Ford is 250k.



And just so no one is left out the big C is 350k. :-laf

 

[HBarlow]

I have a thought... these problems only seem to exist in the F-450 and F-550 models, which use a different turbo system, and apparently different programming. While playing on YouTube today, there are a lot of 450s & 550s with TURBO problems... Is it then possible that the turbos are going out, not supplying enough air to cool the fuel, and burning valves???
That could happen pretty quickly... hmmmmm. . (I'm scratching my chin). Could I have found the cause of these problems?? If so, Ford can send me a large check for my services. . thank you.

A turbo doesn't cool the fuel and losing boost won't burn valves. If the turbo fails boost and power drop off dramatically and black smoke is emitted.

 

[HBarlow]

well, for anybody still interested... we lost another one last week, then another one puked yesterday morning.....


Only one left that hasnt blown up is mine... sure hoping that one of them gets replaced soon, we are out of spare trucks. .

Wingate,

Your company's experience is a pretty good indication that the new Furd engines have some pretty serious limitations when expected to haul or tow a heavy load.

I'd like to recommend to Furd Motor Corporation that they quietly eliminate the Furd diesel from their cab and chassis trucks and instead offer the derated 305hp/610tq Cummins used in Ram C&C trucks. They should probably also quit lying about their "fantastic" gross combined weight ratings and limit their pickups to nothing heavier than a slightly loaded U-Haul rental or 17' boats for weekend trips to the local lake.

How many new Furds did your company start with?

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

If the turbo fails boost and power drop off dramatically and black smoke is emitted.

True, but as long as the emissions crap is on the truck, the person would never see any excess in smoke and may continue to drive it until it goes bang :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

Has anyone seen any reports of similar valve problems on the pickup engines? Surely Ford wouldn't spec a different (inferior) valve material for the lower-rated cab-and-chassis engines... .



Rusty

 

[MChrist]

A turbo doesn't cool the fuel and losing boost won't burn valves. If the turbo fails boost and power drop off dramatically and black smoke is emitted.

__________________

Harvey Barlow



2008 Ram 3500 SLT QC & Chassis w/ CM bed

2007 HitchHiker Discover America 32 LKTG

2010 Goldwing XM/Nav





So, you are saying that if you reduce air intake the EGTs won't climb??? I am, of course, taken aback by this gross misunderstanding. With a given amount of fuel, EGT is controlled by air. More air = lower EGT. Period. So why is my theory being shot down so quickly??

If one of these big trucks is cruising down the road during regen, and the turbo is only moving half the air that the programming is allowing for, EGT could skyrocket to the point of burning valves.

One of our farm tractors was working in our field, and I noticed heavy black smoke shoot out the stack suddenly. The driver caught it and stopped, idled it down. We couldn't duplicate it right away. We checked the air cleaner and it was fine. Tractor started working hard again, and same thing. . black smoke. Upon further investigation, there was a bird nest in the intake chamber!! At high flow, it would get sucked up into the intake pipe,reducing airflow, and skyrocketing EGTs. When idled down, the nest would fall out of the way where we couldn't see it.

Surely you misread my post...

 

[Wingate]

So, how many is that?? Over what period of time?? Ford must be poopin' their pants about this...

thats 5 for us and 3 at other facilities... I dunno what ford is doing, but hopefully there is a fix coming soon!!. .

 

[Wingate]

Has anyone seen any reports of similar valve problems on the pickup engines? Surely Ford wouldn't spec a different (inferior) valve material for the lower-rated cab-and-chassis engines... .



Rusty

I havent seen any, but I cant say that i've looked either... one time, I was wandering around on a Ford Forum and found a couple of pictures of some P/U versions with a hole in the block... may have been the same engine one two sites, I dunno... even if it were two different engines, for a new product design, that would not be a bad percentage!!. .

While I don't pretend to speak for Ford or anybody else, I would suspect that the valves are the same for both engines... It would not surprise me if the C&C engine and P/U engine are the same long blocks with different injectors, turbo and programming... With that being said, with the de-tuned programming and the different turbo, that may have inadvertently created an airflow characteristic issue that is not supplying all cylinders with equal amounts of fresh cool air... . I have witnessed this phenomenon before in other engines... it always shows up as higher exhasut port temp for that particular cylinder... . could be part of a fuel mapping issue also... who knows?? Its just kinda pistrating. . we love the trucks, just gotta get the engine issues fixed...