Well, Here We Go Again!!.. 6.7L Ford

[HBarlow]

Has Furd made any changes to prevent more of the same?

 

[Wingate]

Has Furd made any changes to prevent more of the same?

Harvey, if you are referring to me. . no... nothing as of yet... its really dis-heartening... Talked to our fleet manager and he confirmed that he has ordered several more service trucks built my the same upfitter, only using the new International 1 1/2 ton chassis.

 

[HBarlow]

Your fleet manager is probably a smart man. I wonder what he ordered from Navistar? A Navistar with an inline six cylinder DT-466 is a much larger heavier truck than a Class 5. He could have bought Ram 5500s which would give good service for less money to purchase and maintain.

 

[rscurtis]

Keep in mind Harvey that the 466 is an expensive option over the base 6. 4 engine. The owner of an IH dealership I used to deal with constantly complained that many customers bought the VT365 (6-litre) when they should have bought the 466, but didn't want to spend the extra $. IIRC, it was about a $5K option at the time. Eventually, they did spend the money in repairs and downtime.



Now, with its 4-valve head, manifold heater, VG turbo, and massive EGR cooler, the 466 is not what it used to be.

 

[HBarlow]

Keep in mind Harvey that the 466 is an expensive option over the base 6. 4 engine. The owner of an IH dealership I used to deal with constantly complained that many customers bought the VT365 (6-litre) when they should have bought the 466, but didn't want to spend the extra $. IIRC, it was about a $5K option at the time. Eventually, they did spend the money in repairs and downtime.

Now, with its 4-valve head, manifold heater, VG turbo, and massive EGR cooler, the 466 is not what it used to be.

I am aware of that. I cannot imagine how any reasonably informed person would even take a free new Navistar truck with a Sick. Ohh or Sick. For engine. A $5k option price is pretty cheap when compared to the $15k or more teh replacement V8 diesel engine that would be required shortly not to mention the lousy trade-in allowance/resale value of a V8 diesel powered Navistar.

Just say no to Furds.

 

[Wingate]

Your fleet manager is probably a smart man. I wonder what he ordered from Navistar? A Navistar with an inline six cylinder DT-466 is a much larger heavier truck than a Class 5. He could have bought Ram 5500s which would give good service for less money to purchase and maintain.

Not sure what he ordered exactly... next time I speak with him, I'll try and remember to ask. .



Can't buy Rams... . although many companies in our industry are starting to. . We can't, wrong "C"

 

[Jim W]

I am aware of that. I cannot imagine how any reasonably informed person would even take a free new Navistar truck with a Sick. Ohh or Sick. For engine. A $5k option price is pretty cheap when compared to the $15k or more teh replacement V8 diesel engine that would be required shortly not to mention the lousy trade-in allowance/resale value of a V8 diesel powered Navistar.



Just say no to Furds.

Harvey,

I can, a lot of the larger companies use purchasing agents. In most cases these people are nothing more than a "BEAN COUNTER". They do not use or drive the truck. Just looking for the lowest price vehicle and do not care about maintenance and cost after purchase. This is a different ledger account.

Jim W.

 

[HBarlow]

I agree Jim, but I said "any reasonably informed person. " "Reasonably informed" would not include accountants, buyers, financial advisors.

 

[Wingate]

Been seeing lots of other companies in the oil and gas industry buying the C&C Dodges... all of them have big service beds with cranes and such. . AEP Swepco has bought a bunch of them also, talked to a guy from AEP the other day he he loved his new truck... had a service bed/bucket truck, PTO driven 4 corner hydraulic outriggers. etc. . He was definitely getting better MPG than me,... said he was averaging 12... thats including all his idle time, so he's basically getting DOUBLE what I get, and HE has an EXHAUST BRAKE!!...

 

[rscurtis]

I'll make a prediction here- if this 6. 7 bombs out like the last two diesels, Ford will abandon their diesel program entirely and come out with some type of Eco Boost engine for the SD series. Ford has no plans for diesels in any of their lineup in the US, despite offering them overseas.



As I had pointed out in the past, Ram will make serious inroads with their C&C trucks. Ford may have to abandon the diesel in that market and retreat to the V10, selling against the diesel-only Ram on a price point.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I'll make a prediction here- if this 6. 7 bombs out like the last two diesels, Ford will abandon their diesel program entirely and come out with some type of Eco Boost engine for the SD series. Ford has no plans for diesels in any of their lineup in the US, despite offering them overseas.



As I had pointed out in the past, Ram will make serious inroads with their C&C trucks. Ford may have to abandon the diesel in that market and retreat to the V10, selling against the diesel-only Ram on a price point.

I wouldn't be surprised that your prediction may well happen. No matter how much money they make on their other lines, at some point management will look at the dollar drain trying to one up GM diesel pickups and it will halted.



I predicted that International Harvester would sell off their Construction and Ag Equipment Divisions and become only a truck manufacturer several years before it happened. I-H employees laughed at my prediction. I noted who was laughing later when it happened.



Bill

 

[HBarlow]

I belive the Furd cab and chassis is going to be another loser for them now with the lousy Furd V8 diesel trying to compete against the Ram-Cummins. Ram is going to capture that market in the next three years.

I think this Furd engine will not be much of a success except when used in light service pickup duty for the loyalists and agree with RSCurtis' previous post. Furd is likely to give up on the diesel market.

GM could not manufacture a satisfactory V8 diesel engine for the heavy duty pickup market and Furd is proving they can't either.

 

[Wingate]

I think this Furd engine will not be much of a success except when used in light service pickup duty for the loyalists .

I think thats a pretty fair statement, but I would also think that the C&C trucks that arent under a constant load... . ie, guys that buy a F450-F550 and drop a flatbed on it... . will probably have sucess also. . They will have the advantage of lower gearing to reduce stress on the engine, while not carrying much body weight... and typically, guys rigged out like that usually know better than to put 30K lbs. on the ball and floor it leaving the red-lights. .

A local guy has one configured in such manner and seems to be working out ok... other than crappy fuel economy. Not sure how many miles he has accumulated as of yet... JUeckert may know...



IMHO, time will be the deciding factor on the C&C trucks... as more of them are put into service at the duty cylces they are being built for... . if these failures are going to be a re-current theme, they will show.

The pickup trucks with the 400 hp. tune seem to be ok. . Ive talked to several people who have them that absolutely love them. A good friend of mine just bought one for pulling his toy hauler and harleys, said its great.

 

[JUeckert]

Be it 3 months or 3 years, i dont see dodge sales passing ford sale's in the hd truck segment. . If anyone had a chance to do it, it was gm, and they didnt do it . . I remember some predictions were when dodge came out with a four door, the crew cab diesel market would be owned by them. . They have had 2 versions for how many years now? Keep in mind that was at a time when the 6. 0's rep was really getting around. . As for fords 6. 7 having issues in the 450 up market due to the work cycle, i dont buy that. . I can find many a 250 or 350 class truck, no matter the brand, that get a harder beating then many of the 450 or 550 up truck's i know of. Wingate, the last i talked to mr. fyfe, seems he claimed to be at the 20k mark, that was about 5 weeks ago. Considering he bought it it dec, that a fair bit of driveing. Not to mention a bunch of ideling that i know he does. Only problem he mentioned was an a/c panel messing up, and the poor mileage.

 

[HBarlow]

Ram has already taken a very large portion of C&C sales and numbers are growing.

GM's 4500/5500 was not a great competitor. A friend of mine who works on Volvo commercial equipment drives a Chevrolet 4500 service truck. The engine and transmission are holding up pretty well so far but he hates the truck.

 

[rscurtis]

Ram may never pass Ford in the HD pickup segment, but the 4500-5500 market is wide open, and they now have the proven package with its troublefree engine and bulletproof Aisin transmission. GM is a non-entity, as they are out of that market, and when recently perusing their website, they don't offer any C&C options at all, not even a 3500.

 

[CUMMINZ]

While in Raleigh, NC this week I stopped by an International dealer and they has a new vehicle on display that will compete in the 5500 (14k-19k) range. It is a low rider like a pickup.

 

[HBarlow]

While in Raleigh, NC this week I stopped by an International dealer and they has a new vehicle on display that will compete in the 5500 (14k-19k) range. It is a low rider like a pickup.

It's called a Terrastar and it WON'T compete successfully no matter how they dream. It is the same old lousy recycled Navistar V8 diesel Sick. Poor formerly installed in Furds.

No thanks to any V8 diesel.

If I had a need for a real MDT in class 6 or 7 I would be proud to own an International with at least the DT-466 but preferably the DT-530 or DT-570. Those are genuine truck engines in the inline six cylinder configuration.

 

[MChrist]

Completely off point, but regarding the 6. 4 Navistar motor... in the Summer 2011 edition of RV Magazine, there is an article about a 2011 Allegro Breeze diesel pusher "Class A" motorhome that weighs about 19,000 lbs, uses the 6. 4 and they CLAIM it gets 13-15 MPG!!!
I know many friends and aquaintences that WISH they could get 13 in their Ford pickups and only get 8-10 if they have to work their truck at all.
I'd like to see real world mpg numbers on this motorhome. . I bet they don't get 8!!

 

[CUMMINZ]

HB,



When the salesman gave me the hp/torque numbers on this truck I knew it would not be what I have been looking for. Just across the lot there was their larger truck that he said you could get a larger motor. That truck was about the size of a FL M2.