May be totalled

[Hummin Cummins]

What a bad day. Girl ran a red light in front of my wife and I this morning. Didn't quite make it through. Gladly the safety equipment did its job and everybody walked away. I'm not sure how this is going to work out with the insurance and I'm looking for some advice. The body took it fine, everything did its job. Cosmetically the truck doesnt look bad. Bumper, fender and headlight. Dont look underneath though. Front axle mounts on drivers side broke, front diff went into oil pan of engine but didnt puncture it, yoke broke bellhousing on transmission, transfer case split in half. Thats just what i could see before the teardown which happens tomorrow. My biggest concern is the engine.



Now my question. This is my first accicent of this caliber. I am worried that the force of the axle hitting the oilpan would have damaged the crank, or atleast moved stuff enough to cause damage to show up later down the road. Leaks, premature bearing wear, etc. Do I have any power to push for an engine change if the adjuster doesnt call for one? I still have 60k left on my drivetrain warranty but that doesnt make me feel any better about it.



Has anybody unfortunately been down this road before with possible internal engine damage from an accident?



Sorry for the long post. On a humorous note, it was funny to watch the helpless lil wreckers try to lift the mighty cummins. Couldnt even get the front tires off the ground. After the second wrecker couldnt do it they called for the rollback. HaHa. So much for the schduled camping trips, really find out how bad you need your truck when its not around.

 

[Simplysmn]

Sorry for your Loss but Glad the truck did it's protection job I would say let the insurance company take a look n go from there .

 

[HBarlow]

If the oilpan actually made contact with one of the crankshaft throws, which is unlikely, you'll be able to see the permanent imprint on the oilpan.

What did the front axle impact to cause that damage to front suspension and axle? A modest collision with another car that only damaged bumper, fender, and headlight would not normally damage the front suspension, axle, and oilpan. Did your truck climb up on the other car?

 

[Jim W]

Sorry for your accident, but glad you and your wife are fine.



I had an accident back in the early 70's, was rear ended. I had a 1969 VW Beetle and the engine did not seem to show any signs of damage. About a year later a dowel pin drifted out of the cam shaft gear and cam shaft. Sheared the teeth of cram shaft gear and valve train gears. Needless to say the engine was totaled. The only way that this pin could have walked out was am impact to the engine. but since it was over a year after accident. It was my cost.

Is the frame bent? Are there weld tears in the frame? Is the parent metal torn were the front axle mounts to the frame?

If the front frame parent material is torn and material is missing, then the frame should be scrap. Which means the truck is totaled.

Granted this is my opinion and I am not a license professional engineer. But I am a retired engineer and have structural engineering experience from Cat.

To me your insurance company should go to bat for you with the other insurance company of the girl you ran the RED light.

Jim W.

 

[Grey Wolf]

crankshaft doesn't extend down into the pan

 

[HBarlow]

crankshaft doesn't extend down into the pan

The crankshaft throws do.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Not much hanging down below the block into the pan but the girdle and oil pick up.



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[Hummin Cummins]

Teardown was supposed to happen today but didnt.

The impact was near head-on with a car and my truck climbed over her car. I will put up a pic of the body damage just for the heck of it and when i get a chance I will get some underneath pics. Its amazing the amount of damage underneath compared to what little body damage. Im pretty sure the frame is bent, well more like knocked out of square is a better description.



My son works at the body shop the truck is at and he said it would likely be repaired since it takes 80% of value before its a total loss. They have replaced frames already rather than total them.



Wait and see I guess. I just didnt know if anyone ever experienced this before and how it worked out and if you haven't I hope you never do.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

Thats good information there grey wolf. I know I didnt lose engine oil or coolant, engine shut down immediately on impact. Shop owner did say that nows the time to put on my aftermarket bumper worked into the repair quote. HAHA.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

Just a wrinkled bumper and fender

 

[Grey Wolf]

Thats good information there grey wolf. I know I didnt lose engine oil or coolant, engine shut down immediately on impact. Shop owner did say that nows the time to put on my aftermarket bumper worked into the repair quote. HAHA.

Yep, save the labor on that one:-laf

 

[HBarlow]

How is the crankshaft installed in the block if the block is not split at the crankshaft?

I've seen hundreds, perhaps a thousand gas engines with the bare block upside down and the crank exposed. I don't know if I've ever seen a Cummins block exposed. I thought I had seen it at the MREP in Columbus, IN. Maybe I've assumed I had but have not.

 

[HBarlow]

Teardown was supposed to happen today but didnt.
The impact was near head-on with a car and my truck climbed over her car. I will put up a pic of the body damage just for the heck of it and when i get a chance I will get some underneath pics. Its amazing the amount of damage underneath compared to what little body damage. Im pretty sure the frame is bent, well more like knocked out of square is a better description.

My son works at the body shop the truck is at and he said it would likely be repaired since it takes 80% of value before its a total loss. They have replaced frames already rather than total them.

Wait and see I guess. I just didnt know if anyone ever experienced this before and how it worked out and if you haven't I hope you never do.

Was the left front wheel pushed back by the impact?

Frames can and often are staightened on unibody cars and even some light trucks, I suppose.

Can the frame of a Ram 2500/3500 be successfully staightened?

I would be skeptical of a nice nearly new truck with a straightened frame but the value of a near new truck like yours runs the decision point of total or repair up the dollar scale awfully high.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

Yes, left front wheel was from impact. It broke / bent spring tower mounts and torsion bars on that side allowing the complete axle to roll back and up. My left front frame rail / wheel impacted center of her hood. For what its worth, oppsoing car was a early 90's pontiac grand am.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

Harvey, I was thinking the same thing about the gas engines. That was my whole thought behind this. I guess that makes me feel a little better about the engine.

 

[Grey Wolf]

How is the crankshaft installed in the block if the block is not split at the crankshaft?



I've seen hundreds, perhaps a thousand gas engines with the bare block upside down and the crank exposed. I don't know if I've ever seen a Cummins block exposed. I thought I had seen it at the MREP in Columbus, IN. Maybe I've assumed I had but have not.

No mystery here with the block upside down the crank is installed the same as the "Gassers", the sealing of the front and rear of the crank is where the difference is. The front is taken care of by the front cover with a seal and the rear by the crank retainer/ with a seal.



If your anything like me a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at this companys aftermarket girdle and you'll see what I mean!



YouTube - ‪Cummins 12 & 24 Valve Main Bearing Gorilla Girdle Block stiffener‬‏

 

[HBarlow]

Yes, left front wheel was from impact. It broke / bent spring tower mounts and torsion bars on that side allowing the complete axle to roll back and up. My left front frame rail / wheel impacted center of her hood. For what its worth, oppsoing car was a early 90's pontiac grand am.

Like you, I think I would be very apprehensive about having my 2010 Cummins powered Dodge repaired by "staightening" the frame.

I'm not knowledgeable about state of the art frame staightening equipment and procedures and perhaps it can be done with absolute precision . . . Your son probably is and it is a very good thing for you that your truck is in the shop where he works.

As a minimum I would stay on that insurance adjuster and the company's claims manager and branch manager and let them know up front that the truck was going to be repaired to MY standards, not theirs.

Are you dealing with the other party's insurance company or your own?

The other party's liability insurer cares only enough about your satisfacton to avoid a lawsuit or complaint to the state insurance regulators. They may not care very much about the quality of your repair or the service life and resale value of your nearly new truck.

I would want to see the precise measurements before the truck is touched and would ensure it was precisely accurate when finished. If that is not possible I would demand a new frame under it.

Don't be too polite to play hardball with them. Insurance companies almost always roll over to avoid actually going into court for a trial. They have staff attorneys and experience with millions of accidents so they bluff a lot.

 

[HBarlow]

No mystery here with the block upside down the crank is installed the same as the "Gassers", the sealing of the front and rear of the crank is where the difference is. The front is taken care of by the front cover with a seal and the rear by the crank retainer/ with a seal.

If your anything like me a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at this companys aftermarket girdle and you'll see what I mean!

YouTube - ‪Cummins 12 & 24 Valve Main Bearing Gorilla Girdle Block stiffener‬‏

I can see enough to acknowledge that you were correct and I was wrong. Clearly from the photo nothing does extend below the bottom of the block. The photo also reminded me that I had seen something similar but had forgotten.

I was disappointed by the YouTube video though. It did not reveal how the crank is actually lowered into the block. That still remains a mystery to me.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

I'm dealing with my insurance, then they will deal with hers. The shop is certified by my insurance carrier so there is no need for an adjuster visit unless the shop declares it totalled then the final decision goes to the insurance adjuster. Im going to be very interested to see how the teardown goes. That is kinda nice that I have an inside and open access to the truck while its there. Guess maybe i can get some use out of the money i spent for the kid's tech college tuition.

 

[Grey Wolf]

I can see enough to acknowledge that you were correct and I was wrong. Clearly from the photo nothing does extend below the bottom of the block. The photo also reminded me that I had seen something similar but had forgotten.



I was disappointed by the YouTube video though. It did not reveal how the crank is actually lowered into the block. That still remains a mystery to me.

Harvey, No contest here just trying to help a fellow member understand. Does this post help?



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/2134331-post12.html