Where is the breaking point?

[Nyoest]

At what point will the public say no thanks to a diesel engine? High fuel cost? Crazy high repair bills? Trucks that cost over $40,000 dollars and are turds from day one? We are there.



Today I test drove a 6. 0 manual that I worked with 94,000 miles. Second owner truck with a new engine that po put in. I thought this would be a decent running truck for a comparison to an 04 dmax i just put injectors in and drove. I killed the sob twice at a light. I think my 96 bone stock would have been neck and neck in a race. That would be a pleasure to pull a big 5er with. I was raised with ford trucks and still love the bodies but honestly, the only reason you would buy this truck is you are so blinded by brand loyalty that you never drove any others.



A service on a six liter would kill a normal man, the fuel and oil filters run about $100. That's just the filters folks. Top that off with oil, labor And a cardboard air filter and you are staring $200 in the face. Yah I know the new 6. 7 is sooo much better... ..... operating cost must be astronomical



Atleast a dmax when it's together and right will get decent mileage and killer acceleration. But how much does one of theses trucks cost to purchase and drive ten yeArs? when you need injectors and a pump it's about $6,500 at the dealer give or take. And you'll be taking All eight and a pump every 175,000. You could get two 6. 5 long blocks for that!



Cummins have their shortfalls as well but at least when you see one with 350,000'miles you don't assume it's had two engines already.



Why do we let them so this to us? And why do we pay them sooo much money for something that doesnt work well, gets worse economy than the previous models and cost twice as much to operate? Don't blame EPA we buy the trucks . Hell there is a line ten deep at any given brand for the "new HO with the fresh whizz bang"



Just some rambling thoughts from an incoherent mind... ...











It is a real pita to rant on an I phone. #@$%!

 

[JUeckert]

The days of simplicity are gone, progress and the epa are the blame, but we gotta have clean air. . As for that 6. 0, i would bet your stock 96 would out run it off the line. The 6. 0 and even the 6. 4 lacked the low end grunt the 7. 3 or cummins engines have. . As for price, when folks quit buying them for a fashion statment and unloading them every year or two, maybe the demand will drop, and the price. . Maybe?

 

[fox]

Yes the EPA and thier games are killing diesel engines.



Research the EPA and open door policy. you will be shocked what they allow businesses to do. Then, the nit pick the diesel to death in an attempt to kill any advantages.



Why do we not stop it?

Because the media will not tell the general populace about it.

Same in the political world, the media does not report the full stories.



This country needs to collapse and start over with a thicker constitution that punishes the wrong doers instead of assuming the voters get the info easily.

 

[BGlidewell]

also blame clouds of smoke that cover an entire lane of traffic. Some people may brag about it but they're out in public and the general public is impressed in a different way.

I think one of the longest threads on this site was a smoke out thread.

 

[rbattelle]

This country needs to collapse and start over with a thicker constitution that punishes the wrong doers instead of assuming the voters get the info easily.

The original post poses an interesting market-related question. At what point will the market decide light duty diesel trucks are no longer economical? Nobody knows, except that apparently we're not there yet. But that's the beauty of the marketplace - it acts automatically to balance the system (supply and demand).



Problems come when the heavy hand of government steps in and "regulates" things in some vain attempt to "restore balance". I fail to see how rewriting our constitution and making it "thicker", which I can only guess implies, "more regulatory" can "fix" anything.



I'm still unclear on what needs "fixing" anyway. I don't like the new diesel trucks, so I won't buy one. From my perspective, the system works. If the government mandates I buy a new diesel truck - then I'll be upset.



-Ryan

 

[HBarlow]

The original post poses an interesting market-related question. At what point will the market decide light duty diesel trucks are no longer economical? Nobody knows, except that apparently we're not there yet. But that's the beauty of the marketplace - it acts automatically to balance the system (supply and demand).

Problems come when the heavy hand of government steps in and "regulates" things in some vain attempt to "restore balance". I fail to see how rewriting our constitution and making it "thicker", which I can only guess implies, "more regulatory" can "fix" anything.

I'm still unclear on what needs "fixing" anyway. I don't like the new diesel trucks, so I won't buy one. From my perspective, the system works. If the government mandates I buy a new diesel truck - then I'll be upset.

-Ryan

Ditto. My opinion exactly.

I would also add to your last paragraph:

"or if the government mandates I can no longer buy or operate a diesel truck - then I'll be DAMNED upset!!

 

[Nyoest]

Fellas I'm not going to disagree with most of what you said about the government or legislation but it starts with us. We elect those guys that do this crap, we buy the trucks with known problems.

Marketing has everybody souped up so that they NEED a truck with leather hand stitched interior, DVD, gps backup cameras ,*** warmers and dual climate control to drive twenty miles to work. And it really shouldn't be over a year or two old. I guess if we worry about the options and getting all the bells and whistles adjusted we won't notice that we have to call a tow truck every other day.

Immnot saying that these things aren't nice, and sometimes beneficial just that if your going to engineer all that crap in a truck why can't you commute daily and not have problems?

 

[rbattelle]

we buy the trucks with known problems.

Marketing has everybody souped up so that they NEED a truck with leather hand stitched interior...

That's sort of my point - I didn't buy a truck with known problems (not entirely true - lift pump, for example - but I bought a truck with problems I was willing to fix). I won't buy one of the new diesel trucks. I'm happy with the one I have, which doesn't have a hand stitched leather interior, DVD, or even remote keyless entry. If other people want these things, and there are companies willing to sell that to them, who am I to cry foul? They're not hurting me by having them.

Marketing has no bearing on my purchases, so in that sense i fail to see where they've succeeded in convincing me I NEED a leather interior (for instance).

Are people so utterly mindless as to be convinced by clever marketing that they need perfectly useless things? If so, I say caveat emptor.

-Ryan

 

[HBarlow]

And again we agree.

Marketing doesn't mean squat to me. I don't pay any attention to it at all and neither do I pay any attention to salesmen. I've never met a salesman who knows as much as I do about his products before I even visit.

I have never owned a truck with leather, dvd, back up camera, sunroof, etc. My three Dodge Rams have been white, SLT quad cab duallies. I do order premium seating and premium sound with six disc changers so I guess that means I buy some upscale features.

 

[Wingate]

At what point will the public say no thanks to a diesel engine? High fuel cost? Crazy high repair bills? Trucks that cost over $40,000 dollars and are turds from day one? Yah I know the new 6. 7 is sooo much better... ..... operating cost must be astronomical

Why do we let them so this to us? And why do we pay them sooo much money for something that doesnt work well, gets worse economy than the previous models and cost twice as much to operate? Don't blame EPA we buy the trucks . Hell there is a line ten deep at any given brand for the "new HO with the fresh whizz bang"



Just some rambling thoughts from an incoherent mind... ...

#@$%!

I'm already there... I have no intentions of buying another new truck. . My 06 model just got 45K on it, just got an oil change, wash and wax... . its good for another 2 years!!!.

Only thing I would like to have would be a true crew cab... but I am not willing to take the mileage penalty and maintenance costs penalty to own one... And mine has been paid off for a while now. .

If I go by NADA or KBB, my truck is worth as much if not more than most of the used 6. 7L equipped Ram 2500's!!

Besides, Im slowly getting all the crappy designed parts removed from this one... why would I want to start all over with a new one!!.

 

[Nyoest]

Marketing doesn't mean squat to me. I don't pay any attention to it at all and neither do I pay any attention to salesmen. I've never met a salesman who knows as much as I do about his products before I visits.

Harvey i used to work in motorcycle sales and I can tell you I really Enjoyed when a well informed customer came in. So many people had little to no what model or size they wanted. Ugh



Ryan currently you are right. Why would you and I care if the '13 models get seven miles to the gallon empty and only last for about 30,000 miles. Well unfortunately my truck won't last forever and someday I'd like to buy a diesel truck that would be an UPGRADE from my '96.



I don't want any one to get my original intent wrong it's not the guy buying the truck of his dreams I have a gripe with. It is the truck of his dreams being sub par to previous models and not much being done about it. I'm fairly passionate about trucks and my ramblings tend to wander.

 

[Regcabguy]

I had lousy luck with my '98. 5 to the point of not buying another Dodge CTD.



Luckily,this one's been trouble free aside from dw,which a rebalance and the '08. 5 steering upgrade fixed.



I'll keep this one until it starts messing up. It's been a good truck so far.

 

[rbattelle]

someday I'd like to buy a diesel truck that would be an UPGRADE from my '96.

I can certainly sympathize with an inability to find a modern product that satisfies, believe me.



We all face the possibility of some day looking unsuccessfully for a new truck, while simultaneously being unwilling to buy something older and used.



The last few years I've been saying that when I find something new I like, I need to buy several of them because it's nearly guaranteed that when it comes time to replace it, the same thing won't be available. Unfortunately, most of us aren't wealthy enough to apply that rule to vehicles.



-Ryan

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey i used to work in motorcycle sales and I can tell you I really Enjoyed when a well informed customer came in. So many people had little to no what model or size they wanted. Ugh

Ryan currently you are right. Why would you and I care if the '13 models get seven miles to the gallon empty and only last for about 30,000 miles. Well unfortunately my truck won't last forever and someday I'd like to buy a diesel truck that would be an UPGRADE from my '96.

I don't want any one to get my original intent wrong it's not the guy buying the truck of his dreams I have a gripe with. It is the truck of his dreams being sub par to previous models and not much being done about it. I'm fairly passionate about trucks and my ramblings tend to wander.

I have experienced that also as a salesman and as a buyer. It is a pleasure to work with your opposite, whether buying or selling, when the other guy is well informed and dealing in reality not bs he learned from his brother-in-law who didn't have anything to offer but wrong opinions.

You know how impossible it was and what a time waster it was to try to sell one to the guy who thought you should be able to accept his offer of 50% less than listed price.

 

[Bluebird]

It's simple...

I took time to learn about CTD from a friend ten-years ago. I wanted a good simple economical reliable work truck. I got on TDR, researched for 6-months, decided the 1st Gen was for me and my Gearhead ambitions. The rest is history, see my signature. My truck is doing it's job, and I know it can do a lot more than I ask of it now. Simple inventions last. I bought a Cummins, they threw the Dodge in with the deal...



Patrick

 

[Dobrien]

I too did what Bluebird did. I researched and learned what I could about Diesel pickup trucks. I joined TDR and read more about the different "Generations" of CTD's. I didn't have a budget for a new truck. I decided I wanted a first generation Dodge CTD. We found a '92 about 8 years ago. The KDP had been taken care of. I've not done much to it, but I love it. We're thinking of getting a 4x4. We have horses and a 4x4 would come in handy every now and again. No way will I buy a new truck. If I can't find a good first gen 4x4, I'll convert the one we have. We bought the '97 VW TDI because we don't have to have it smoged. Don't have to have the '92 Dodge CTD smoged either. When it's time to replace my daily driver, the '02 VW TDI, I'll replace it with another older (pre '98) Diesel car. I've restored cars in the past, so I'm not afraid of getting a fixer-upper car or truck for that matter. When I retire in about 10 years, we'll probably leave California. That's another story. All in all, I'm a Diesel Lover. Love the torque, love the mileage, love the performance. I'll always own Diesel trucks/cars. My family feels the same way. Besides, my youngest son also drives a '97 VW Passat TDI with mods. He's getting about 56 - 58 mpg. No Toyota Prius (New or used) or any other Gas/Hybrid gets that kind of mileage.

Sorry for the rant... I'm in for Diesel powered trucks/cars for the long haul.